New tube, sorta unique looking, what do you think?

[wolff]

     Just about sprained my Klarn lifting the box it came in:

It is 18" x 2" at the breech, with a 3" diameter trunnion ring made of steel, bore is .690" to just under 15" deep and 14.5" to the back of the vent hole.
The trunnions are 2" long x .770".   With that 1/2" of steel from the meaty trunnion ring, it kinda makes the trunnions seem out of proportion, no?
The barrel diameter increases on a nice taper from 1.58" (behind the muzzle's snout)  to 1.98" just forward of the trunnion ring.  It remains at 1.98" to the backside of the breech, at 17".


     If you were wondering - or muttering - "is that bolt at the rear on or in the barrel?"   Then give yourself a little dolly!
Said bolt is 2" long, with  1/2" diameter threads 1.19" deep.  Before you ask, because someone will ask (I lurked long enough to learn enough to dare posting):  There is one full inch between the breech and that threaded hole
Also, you can just make out the small hole at the rear of the trunnion ring - it's threaded for a set screw; there's another 180*,  from it.
 
     This barrel has very little in the way of markings :  "R  S  W" is tastefully stamped into the top at the breech - 1/4" tall letters, sans serif, no periods between letters.
     It has that "old bronze" smell to it.  You know what I mean?  
     Appears unfired.   So, To my unskilled (well, with cannons at least) eye, it sort of has a "swivel gun" look about it.  A bolt could attach an aiming stick...

The Floor is Open for Discussion!

thanks in advance for input!

wolff

P.S.  I used the "Insert Image" button and pasted links to the pics up at Flickr, but they're not showing up within the text body -- lessened the drama!

[Double D]

What else do you know about it?

[wolff]

What else do you know about it?

     I wish that I did know more...that's all I have, unfortunately.  The fella I bought her from didn't know anything at all about it, other than it was heavy    
     For what it's worth, the 2 hardwood supports that came with the barrel are vintage; scraps, really, about 9" x 1.5-1.75" with sawmill marks from one BIG blade!
     Quick digression:  About a month ago, my friend Andy called me for an opinion on some military web gear.  I asked him if it "looked and smelled like G.I. gear" -- Now, every guy who's ever smelled GI gear or canvas knows exactly what I'm referring to   It's very evocative.   My point is that when I first looked the barrel over, I took it to be of recent making - fifty years or so.  But more and more I am coming to believe it's 75 or even more years old.   And those two old, oily, odd wood supports?    They have the look and smell of "old" all over `em 

     I can't figure out if this was intended to match a historic profile, or the maker simply decided to head off in a new direction!

[Max Caliber]

Wolff, the barrel looks a bit like this 3.8-inch James rifle, type 3.


Picture taken at Shiloh NMP

[KABAR2]

Wolff, the barrel looks a bit like this 3.8-inch James rifle, type 3.
 

Or with some work look very much like a James rifle.

[wolff]

Wolff, the barrel looks a bit like this 3.8-inch James rifle, type 3.


Picture taken at Shiloh NMP

Holy Cow, Max!  Great eye!  Yes, the two tubes do share a similar profile.

Does anyone think the trunnions look too long?  They're about a barrel diameter (2") long, and .770 diameter - which seems an OK proportion.  But that trunnion ring, at 3" in diameter,  makes them look like they're sticking out like Howdy Doody's ears

I do think that trimming that flange at the muzzle down flush (and perhaps losing the cascabel too) would improve the "look" of it.


Again, Thanks for the input!

Brad

p.s.  A thought:  Would a close examination of the machining marks help identify, or narrow down what "era" the tube was made?
Here's a few closeups of the topside set screw, initials by the breech, and muzzle detail.

[Double D]

I wouldn't touch a thing!  Leave it as is, that's how it was built. 

[Cat Whisperer]

NICE tube!

Now we're looking foreward to pictures of smoke and flame, of course.  (Though not with fffg - something more normal to a long barrel.)

Take pictures of the carriage as you build it too!

[wolff]

NICE tube!

Now we're looking foreward to pictures of smoke and flame, of course.  (Though not with fffg - something more normal to a long barrel.)

Take pictures of the carriage as you build it too!

Agreed - coarser granulation would be best.

RE:  A carriage...I was thinking that if I could find a nice, thick butcher block (long strips, not checkerboard) at a thrift store, I could harvest a couple of slabs from it.  Anybody try that with success?


DD said: 

I wouldn't touch a thing!  Leave it as is, that's how it was built.

  Yep...I agree with you, too   Although I can envision it differently and perhaps "better", leaving it be - as with firearms - is the best policy.

Looking to make some Smoke and Lightning...Heavy Metal Thunder... for Independance Day; even if using a temp carriage/sled.

brad wolff

[Double D]

Something to consider.  If there is a building material salvage operation in your area, consider looking for a laminated beam for carriage work

[dan610324]

you americans got all the interesting stuff , here in sweden they just grow the unlaminated beans

sorry DD I just couldnt resist it   

[Cat Whisperer]

you americans got all the interesting stuff , here in sweden they just grow the unlaminated beans

sorry DD I just couldnt resist it   

And we also have the tomatoes with stripes!   

[Terry C.]

For lanyards we have string beans.

And for handspikes...




.. pole beans. 

[KABAR2]

If this keeps up pretty soon this thread is going to be about a bean salad....

[Cat Whisperer]

If this keeps up pretty soon this thread is going to be about a bean salad....

But to bring it back 'on topic' we'll have to have it accompanied by gun-powder tea.

[Terry C.]

BP tea!

As long as it's real BP, then there's nothing that will really hurt you in small amounts. Saltpeter, sulfur, and charcoal are all taken internally for medicinal purposes (but in the case of the charcoal, it doesn't stay internal for long).

Mmmm... all natural flavor! 

[Cannoneer]

Wolff,
As Max has already pointed out, your barrel does show a similarity with the profile of the James Type III rifle. If the muzzle ring were removed, and the breech base, cascabel neck, and knob were reshaped a bit it would be a fairly close model of one. 

[wolff]

Something to consider.  If there is a building material salvage operation in your area, consider looking for a laminated beam for carriage work

     DD:  Great idea about using a scrap piece from a "glue-lam" -- it's the construction industry's version of a butcher block!  But aren't I to be concerned that it would be made of fir or pine? 
     
     I've begun sketching a few ideas for carriage shapes, and I can't quite resolve whether to use the trunnions as-is @ 2" long - (2" thick cheeks ), or, given a .690 bore and 2" dia. breech, shorten the trunnions to something like 1" to 1 3/8" long.

I read an old formula some time ago that proportioned carriage construction to the barrel (naval carriages, IIRC), and given that this tube isn't a faithful copy of any one type of cannon, I'm also not insisting on devising a period-correct carriage either.


comments?

[dan610324]

I hope that you dont change anything on the barrel as it could be antique
ok it looks a little odd with the very long trunnions, but still its the original design
even if you cut the trunnions down to approximately .7" length it wouldnt still be proportional because of the hughe trunnion ring .

that barrel got tons of charm as it is , please save it in its original shape

if you dont like it then sell it as an antique and build or have someone to build what you want for you

just my 2 cents, for what its worth

[Victor3]

 One thing I'd be concerned about (if firing a ball) is if the two set screws are the only thing securing the ring. They don't look to be enough to handle the recoil by themselves.

 Also, they're socket-head set screws which points to a more recent, rather than say a 100+ year old age for the barrel.

[wolff]

I hope that you dont change anything on the barrel as it could be antique
ok it looks a little odd with the very long trunnions, but still its the original design
even if you cut the trunnions down to approximately .7" length it wouldnt still be proportional because of the hughe trunnion ring .

that barrel got tons of charm as it is , please save it in its original shape

if you dont like it then sell it as an antique and build or have someone to build what you want for you

just my 2 cents, for what its worth

Well put, my friend, well put.
(BTW, does your copper collection happen to include any Absinthe stills?)

One thing I'd be concerned about (if firing a ball) is if the two set screws are the only thing securing the ring. They don't look to be enough to handle the recoil by themselves.

 Also, they're socket-head set screws which points to a more recent, rather than say a 100+ year old age for the barrel.

I'd thought of the set-screws as being the main securing point too, and I think I'll very carefully attempt to loosen them enough to slip the ring off its ledge...I suspect that the area that the ring contacts  is not parallel, and widens towards the front.
   As for set screws themselves, I'll have to dig into the age of their first  or common usage.

again, my thanks for all the excellent input!

wolff 

[Victor3]

 IIRC, hex socket screws were invented around 1900. However, the ones in your barrel may have been replacements installed some time after it was actually made.

[dan610324]

I wish I had , but at the moment no .
I had an still made in 1789 before , but unfortunately I got to sell it a few years back
it wasnt the one in my avatar but very similar
this days I just got a small collection , the best pieces was sold 5-10 years ago
found another still for sale just a few days ago , but it was priced at slightly over 4 k

[dan610324]

some more

[KABAR2]

Dan it looks like you have cornered the copper market..... I don't think there's anything
left over there for anyone else.....

[Cat Whisperer]

... but it was priced at slightly over 4 k

4,000 dollars, Euro's, pounds or even Forents is well past most of our reach.

[dan610324]

dollars , it was 29 000 swedish kronor

what I got now is approximately 25% of what I had 10 years ago 

[RocklockI]

Yes Dan thats all well and good  ,But what Wolffs question  of Absinthe or 'The Green Fairy'
It's now legal to sell in this country but the stuff is nutts expensive . One day when I feel like a big shot I might just go go some .  The gals at the liquor store said .."yea it's high dollar, but just a little dab will do ya "

Then agian what they concoct in euro maybe way diif .

I had a freind who was stationed in germany  in the early to mid 70's . He told me thet they used to fill their canteens with Jager miester , But that it wasnt the Jager you get here ......some kinda 'extra' ingredent' ,not allowed here ? He said it kept them really warm walking gaurd duty .

Gaurds ....funny little creatures ! usualy the ones stealing , but dont ask me how I know ........

[wolff]

Yes Dan thats all well and good  ,But what Wolffs question  of Absinthe or 'The Green Fairy'
It's now legal to sell in this country but the stuff is nutts expensive . One day when I feel like a big shot I might just go go some .  The gals at the liquor store said .."yea it's high dollar, but just a little dab will do ya "

Then agian what they concoct in euro maybe way diif .

It's all true - once again legal throughout Europe, and what's legal here in the U.S.A. to purchase is not the same as what you can get in Europe   In America, we can legally make, possess and consume Absinthe; but used to not be able to buy/sell it.   That "mystery ingredient" is Artemisa Grande = grand wormwood, and its thujone content... good absinthe bestows a warm, unique and quite pleasant experience:  but there's zero "high" from it, so no worries there.  And the high proof (140!) isn't an issue since you dilute the "dose" with ice cold water down to 1/3rd or 1/4th the proof.
     DAN:  I've seen pictures of simple Swiss stills that looked like a tinker soldered up a couple garden watering cans...and I wasn't sure if they were actual distillers vs. infusing pots...(the Swiss make the BEST IMHO - "Clandestine Blue" absinthe )ve   

[Double D]

and so Dan the reason your collection is reduced  because your melting them down to make bronze cannons which is back on topic....