Author Topic: s30v vs ats 34 does it matter?  (Read 2160 times)

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Offline HPBTmatch

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s30v vs ats 34 does it matter?
« on: June 12, 2010, 03:27:59 PM »
Hey Guys,
  Quick question for y'all....  I just ordered my first Microtech Ultratech otf knife and it arrived today.  It was advertised on the site as having an s30v blade, but when I looked at it it's marked as ats 34.  I won't be able to contact the online seller till Monday, but I'm thinking I may run into a situation where it's because that was the only material available in my chosen blade configuration (full serations/plain de).
  So my question is....is s30v really a step up from ats 34?  Should I return it to get that steel even if it means I have to go to a different blade style?  I'm hoping someone who's had experience with both will chime in. (I've only had experience with ats 34 - an old benchmade Mel Pardue).

Thanks in advance,
-Match

Offline ms

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Re: s30v vs ats 34
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2010, 03:46:24 PM »
ATS-34 is a Japanese copy of 154CM. For all intents and purposes, they're the same alloy. I would get your money back.

Offline HPBTmatch

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Re: s30v vs ats 34 does it matter?
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2010, 01:19:13 PM »
Thanks for the reply MS.  Anyone else care to cite the differences....especially from a day to day usage standpoint?

Offline Joel

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Re: s30v vs ats 34 does it matter?
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2010, 06:51:02 PM »
I make knives from both 154CM and S-30V(along with D-2 and A-2).  For the life of me I can't really find a significant difference in edge holding.  Then again, my blades get an outstanding heat treat by D'Alton Holder.  In this case I'd be more worried about that than in any major difference between the two.  Optimum hardness for s-30V is 58; for 154CM it's 59-60.  You'd be surprised the number of factories that don't even come close.

Offline HPBTmatch

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Re: s30v vs ats 34 does it matter?
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2010, 08:55:12 PM »
Joel, thank you for the reply.  I believe you've nailed it.  Since I posted this I've done a bit more research and it seems the general consensus is that Heat treating is just as (if not more) important to blade quality than steel type.  As a side note, the online seller was more than willing to refund me fully for the knife, but I decided to keep her.  Apparently Microtech changes steel types quite often...

Offline jimmyp50

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Re: s30v vs ats 34 does it matter?
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2010, 08:46:10 AM »
you did not get what you paid for. I have both ATS34 and S30V, the S30V is harder to sharpen but holds the edge at least twice as long.  Then its not about which steel is better, its about what you paid for and you did not pay for ATS34, just go get a buck or something for that.
Jimmyp50Georgia

Offline Joel

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Re: s30v vs ats 34 does it matter?
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2010, 02:43:21 AM »
I've had factory knives in both ATS-34(Japanese gentlemen's folder) and S-30V(Spyderco Native) and the ATS-34 beat it hands down.  The reason?  The folder had a thin, flatground blade and the Spyderco features a fairly thick, hollow grind.  Thin flat grind beats out thick hollow any day of the week.  Because you use less pressure on the edge to cut with, the blade holds an edge longer, since it doesn't roll as quickly. It's 90% about edge/blade geometry and heat treat. I make a knife, my Model #1, in three different steels; 154CM, D-2 and S-30V.  All of them are from the same thickness steel with the same flatground blades.  There is no major difference in how long they hold an edge.  The only reason I've added S-30V is because of the hype it's gotten by all the "experts"...many of whom are now changing their minds.  30V was created because a lot of the ingredients found in tool steels simply aren't necessary in cutlery steels.  So they took them out, added vanadium(which is always good) and got a decent steel that should  be cheaper than the tool steels but because it's used by a smaller market; isn't. One thing about 30V I've found is that the edge  chips if you grind it too thin.  It's happened a number of times.  I get around that by using a convex(rounded) edge which is much stronger and puts more steel at the edge but cuts better.  In a thicker blade(mine are mostly 3/32" steel) with a thicker edge geometry it doesn't seem to be a problem.

Offline Victor3

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Re: s30v vs ats 34 does it matter?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2010, 05:39:52 PM »
The only reason I've added S-30V is because of the hype it's gotten by all the "experts"...

 That reminds me of something I read in Shilen Rifles' FAQ...

How should I break-in my new Shilen barrel?

"Shilen, Inc. introduced a break-in procedure mostly because customers seemed to think that we should have one."

 ;D
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline Joel

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Re: s30v vs ats 34 does it matter?
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2010, 04:21:30 AM »
 ;D