What is "Big Oil" anyways?

[teamnelson]

I always hear that the fat cats in Big Oil are keeping us under their thumb ... so I decided to do a little research. Did you know that the overwhelming majority of the world's largest oil producers are all nationalized? In fact the top 15 are all nationialized? So we're not talking a corporate issue, we're talking national strategy issues.

Even if you recalculate the list (see last reference) based on stock performance, the top are still nationalized, and most in the top 50 are nationalized.

Reference:
http://www.petrostrategies.org/Links/Worlds_Largest_Oil_and_Gas_Companies_Sites.htm
http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html
http://www.energyintel.com/documentdetail.asp?document_id=245527

[blind ear]

Big Oil is what refers to us as "the little people". eddie

[Sourdough]

I have a good friend and hunting partner, that is the Vice President of Alaska Operations with one of the big oil companies.  He and I have had some real heated discussions some years in Moose camp, about the practices of he and his fellow oil executives follow.  Say they find a large oil field.  They drill 15 wells and hit oil in 12 of the 15.  They will keep the results secret and cap 10 of them.  Start production of the remaining 2.  Then after a few years they start talking about how they are pumping those two dry, so they can raise the prices.  

This way they have a steady stream of income coming in, to finance operations and exploration else where.  When they have done this in several fields around Alaska, and Northern Canada, there is no longer any reason to drill new wells.  This makes them look like they ar going bust, when actually they are sitting on enough oil to last 50 years or more, at their current level of production.

They are doing the same thing with Natural Gas.  Making it look like they are running out.  The polititions are wanting to give them concessions, and tax breaks to spur new drilling.  They will take these breaks and drill in other likely places.  The results of their drilling will remain secret, and wells will be capped, till they get more tax breaks and incentives with higher prices to uncap a well and bring the gas to market.

Yet much of the most productive areas are off limits due to environmental concerns.  The environmentalist don't want us to drill there and the government goes along with it.

In other words they are holding back for higher prices and we are being gouged.

[mcwoodduck]

Even if we are talking Big OIL in this country.
It cost money to find the oil, equipment and man power to get the oil out of the ground
there are shipping costs from the wells to the refinery.
Cost in turning the crude oil into usable fuels. In the form of man power, chemical, and equipment.
There are then costs to deliver the usable fuels and other products to distribution points or production facilities to make plastics and polymers.
The US Government takes taxes from the Workers to make the oil products, refinery workers, sales people, trucking people, Gas Station owners.
The Government has use taxes built into the fuel as well as state and local governments have sales taxes added into the sales of the products.
The government taxes the profits of Big OIL that is all share holder owned and as the dividends are sent out to 401K holders, Mutual fund owners, and actual stock owners in the oil companies, those profits are then TAXED AGAIN as personal income for the share holders.
The US government makes more in taxes from an oil company than the oil company does in Profits and these same parasites that are steeling wealth in the form of taxes are the ones that bad mouth the people that make that wealth so Morons like Pelosi can have a private US air force 737 plane to fly back and forth alone in.  Just an aside - Do you all remember the stink the Dems made when in the early 90's John Sunoonu used a Air Force C21 to go play golf and they wanted his head. 
Well back to BIG OIL- they mine the raw material, make the product, distribute the product, employ about a million people and pay BILLIONS in Taxes.  The average citizen ownes stock is one shape or form in one of these companies. and they are the ad guy.
Think about that.... The government went after BIG tabaco to get them to pay more and the people that use the product to pay more in taxes.  Now they are going after big oil the same way.  These morons are tiered of golden goose omlettes and now want roast goose.
Time and time again you will kill an economy when you either raise taxes or raise fuel prices, either will raise the price of goods.
and less will be demanded.  We have also shown that if you lower taxes the costs go down, more is consumed more is demanded and more people are employed expanding the economy raising wages and standards of living.
Honestly would you rather have 30% of a million or 3% of 100 Million.
But the group in office as well as other small minded people think that Taxes are a 0 sum gain.  If at 30% they are bringing in 300,000 to run the government then 3% they will only bring in 30,000.  When infact it will end up being more like 600,000 or 1,200,000.
We need the school teaachers to start teaching this and then they can get the pay raises they have wanted and the new books for schools with all % of the state budget the same.

[Dixie Dude]

Our government allowed mergers of the various oil companies over the last 20-30 years so they could compete with the nationalized companies overseas.  Made them really big.  Exxon, Mobil, BP, Amoco, Texaco, Gulf, Sinclair, Cities Service, Shell, Chevron, Standard Oil, and various small companies have merged.   

The only option away from oil right now is algae production, which costs $3.00 from producer to pump without adding any taxes, so it still is not competitive with oil.  The only thing right now that is competitive is natural gas.

Alcohol takes farmland out of production for fuel instead of food. 

Synthetic gasoline from coal is about 2-3 times as costly.  Not cost effective yet.

Electric vehicles are expensive and cannot go long range without recharging for 8 hours. 

What else is there as cheap, has long range, and quick refueling?  Nothing yet. 

The only thing we can do is go diesel, hybrid, and mechanical improvements to cut usage. 

FYI, There is a tax on natural gas when it is sold by a driller to a pipeline company, taxed when the pipeline company sells it to a distribution company, and taxed when you buy it from the local gas company.  Same with oil. 

[mcwoodduck]

Our government allowed mergers of the various oil companies over the last 20-30 years so they could compete with the nationalized companies overseas.  Made them really big.  Exxon, Mobil, BP, Amoco, Texaco, Gulf, Sinclair, Cities Service, Shell, Chevron, Standard Oil, and various small companies have merged.    

I think you have it backwards;
Standard Oil was the parent company to most of the American Oil companies.  It was broken up like AT&T into smaller companies in the 30's under anti trust laws.  Monopoly.  
What you are thinking of is the lack of refineries and the Government and enviromental waccos that will not allow more to be built have joined together and opperate or buy fuel from each other based on region.  the add the different enhancements that make thier fuel better

Electric vehicles are expensive and cannot go long range without recharging for 8 hours.  

The power grid is not set up to charge electric cars.
Electrical power is storable as batteries but the grid can not store power and is not as efficient as direct fuel usage.
While a car can only run on a single source of fuel (gas, diesel, or JP4) the power plants can be made from a wide variety of sources, wind, water, coal, natural gas, propane,solar, and oil.  It is still less effective to make power to send power over the grid to then power a car.  Not to mention all the town brown outs if people turn from fuel powered cars to battery powered cars. As the power company must send ample power to the grid for meet demand they may end up sending more power than needed and it will be lost, to meet the new demand for charging 1,000's of cars a day on the grid.   Also as demand goes up and over night usage  for charging the cars goes up the power costs too will rise and the electric car may be paying more than the price of gas per mile.  Not to mention the Governement will then try to figure out a way to tax the electric car for the road usage like you pay with gas.  More gas more road usage you pay.  

[Dixie Dude]

You are right about the breakup of Standard years ago, but the mergers restarted in recent history for instance, Exxon and Mobile merged, Phillips merged with someone, Union 76 merged with someone, recently BP acquired Gulf, and Amoco.  Texaco was merged with someone.  These excuses were to compete with the multinationals. 

You are also partially right about the electric grid.  Most cars would charge at night, especially in summer, the demand is lower but it would require more electric production at night. 

Back in the 70's there was a suggestion that 300' diameter flywheels could be build semi-underground.  They would store electricty during off peeks, and their spinning would produce electricity during peeks.  The estimate was in the 70's that in could increase electric production by 1/3 without building more power plants.  It never was used.  The idea of semi-underground was if one flew apart, it would embed in the ground around it.  They were to be made from bundles of steel wire cable due to cables strength.  It was also suggested for use in cars as a storage (3' diameter) wheel to help with acceleration.  Smaller engines, when idle would start the flywheel spinning, then would assist the engine in acceleration.  Kind of like a hybrid, but using a flywheel.  They put one in a 76 Chrysler New Yorker with a 4 cylinder Dodge Colt engine and it got 36 mpg.  This was a big heavy car back then. 

[mcwoodduck]

I thought they scrapped the Fly wheel in a car idea because small light cars would have a gyroscope effect on Ice or wet roads.
In Jr. High school we had a teacher that had a Gyroscope in a breif case that was battery powered.
For jokes he would bring it out set it in the ground and start it up.  Fill his arms with papaers or be reading something and ask an unsuspecting student to walk down the hall near him and he would ask them to please carry the case.
He would then make a right or left in to his class room and the student , sometime another staff member could not make the turn and would as if by an invisable person continuee on in the same direction past the door.

As far as one company buying another, so what.  We have that everyday in the US.  One company will buy another or merge taking advantage of either the one companies name the other companies distrubution or product and stream line managment making the product cheaper or more profitable.  Cheaper the consumer is happy and keeps prices low.  If it is more profitable than the share holders are happy and higher profits usually drive prices down.  The FCC has to approve it. 

[Hooker]

Back in the 70's there was a suggestion that 300' diameter flywheels could be build semi-underground.  They would store electricty during off peeks, and their spinning would produce electricity during peeks.  The estimate was in the 70's that in could increase electric production by 1/3 without building more power plants.  It never was used.  The idea of semi-underground was if one flew apart, it would embed in the ground around it.  They were to be made from bundles of steel wire cable due to cables strength.  It was also suggested for use in cars as a storage (3' diameter) wheel to help with acceleration.  Smaller engines, when idle would start the flywheel spinning, then would assist the engine in acceleration.  Kind of like a hybrid, but using a flywheel.  They put one in a 76 Chrysler New Yorker with a 4 cylinder Dodge Colt engine and it got 36 mpg.  This was a big heavy car back then. 

Yeah there was an abundance of cheap dope in the 70s.
These plans were never put in to use because they don't work there is no free energy.
4000 pound Detroit dinosaurs powered by lawnmower engines getting 36 mpg on a test track at idle speed are not real world solutions.
Inertia driven energy production has yet to produce more energy than it uses. 

Pat

[Victor3]

 Yup. Flywheels have always been a popular feature of phony 'perpetual motion' devices.

[Dixie Dude]

Not a perpetual motion machine.  An energy storage device.  Idea was if you have a power plant producing 1000kw of electricity during peek, but only 500 during off peak.  Continue producing say 750 kw during off peek, and store the excess 250kw in a flywheel.  Then during peek, you only have to continue producing 750 and drain the flywheel for the excess.  Flywheel acts like battery.  The ones they were designing in the 70's were 300' in diameter.  The one's they were talking about in the 70's in cars were 3' in diameter and mounted on gimbles so as to stay level no mater which angle the car is on hills.  It would be in a vacuum so as to eliminate as much friction as possible.  Lockheed built the flywheel for Chrysler.  The had a prototype car, the New Yorker, which got around 20mpg in town and 36 on the highway.  You either plugged up the flywheel overnight to begin it spinning or you started your car 30 minutes early and let the little 4 cylinder engine begin spinning it.  Once it was fully spinning, it engaged a transmission for acceleration torque.  Once you reached 70 mph only the 4 cylinder engine ran the car, the flywheel remained idle, just spinning for the next burst of acceleration.  When the care stopped at traffic lights, the engine engaged the flywheel to spin it up if it was below a certain speed for the next acceleration.  Kind of like hybrid today.  Idea for power plants was to increase power at peek demands without building additional power plants.

It think they opted for smaller lighter cars and trucks to increas milage instead as it was cheaper than ptting flywheels in cars, same as hybrids today, they cost more.

[billy_56081]

No matter what it takes the same amount of energy to move that said car at the same speed. The ways you can increase milage is to 1, reduce weight, 2 reduce drag, 3 reduce friction in other parts of the vehicle,  increase the efficiency of the motor. One way we could greatly increase the efficiency of the motor would be with computor controlled valves. Removing the camshaftand replcing it with silinoid controlled valves that could be optimised by a computer would increase milage as much at 30%.

[blind ear]

"Big Oil" is/are the ones that own raceing yachts for family outings.

[saddlebum]

Here is Obama's Big Oil.....What? You didn't know Obama commited two billion in tax payer dollars for Petrobras? A Brazilian oil company that George Soros has at least 900 million dollars invested in. Obama bans drilling here and funds drilling in Brazil for a Soros oil company. Where do you think the rigs will go when they leave the Gulf? Details in the links. It was better explained on the Glenn Beck Show but you'll get the idea.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,595042,00.html?mep

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594902,00.html

[SHOOTALL]

Of all the things we have lost in America to progressives the idea that making a proffit  has to rate at the top. We complain about $3.00 gas and pay $5.00 a cup for coffee or $7.00 a gal. for water in a bottle . The oil business id regulated their proffit is regulated . BUT the more they make the more tax they pay ! think about it .

[JPShelton]

What is "Big Oil" anyways? 

Well, I guess its me, if you're talking non-nationalized, domestic concerns.  It could be anyone of you, too.  Just call your friendly neighborhood stock broker, who can clue you in on how you can also be a part of Big Oil as a shareholder.

-JP

[blind ear]

Shootall,

it isn't the loss of the idea of makeing a profit that is the problem, it is the beliefe that anything a coorporation does is alright. Coorporations have the soul of a great white shark. They bottom line is every thing and they don't care about the planet, your children nor evidently thier children, just the bottom line. We live on a rock suspended in space, third planet from the sun. We will not move somewhere else when this neighborhood is ruined.

If people and government don't hold business accountable, business won't be accountable. Coorporations have proved this repeatedly. Profit is great, rape of the planet and the working people isn't.

Do you not see what is being done in everything from the bank bale out, the car industry bailout, the houseing bailout etc etc etc? Big business screws up because the regualtions have been dropped and the wage earning people are the ones it hurts the most to bail them out.

That isn't a loss to progressive ideas, it is just trying to get back to common sence.

[SHOOTALL]

Big Business may have the soul of a great white . But they have the resolution of a child also they need rules and understand rules . So if they beg and govt. gives in then why blame the child ?

[blind ear]

Oh no, they arn't the begging child, they are the dictator. They are running the show as they wish.

Us poor mortals have lost the steering once provided by congress because the coorporations have bought and paid for them, the congress, with the operateing rules the coorporations have had the congress put in place while we in our brain dead indoctrinated state watched happen.

Sad thing is a vast , evidently, majority still can't recognize the deception. They still worship at the coorporate altar. Thinking for themselves has gone out the wndow.

[SHOOTALL]

That may well be true and if so its the voter/buyers fault . We looked away for way to long . But there is a blance between free trade and govt. control . Look at GM are we the voter/buyer better off ? Look at where the parts come from to build GM cars , is the world better off as fars as waste ?

[blind ear]

Shootall, glad to see you agree with me. eddiegjr

[SHOOTALL]

Same end different path maybe 

[mcwoodduck]

"Big Oil" is/are the ones that own raceing yachts for family outings.

So What, They are boating people.
CEO's of large companies make a lot of money and their toys and events are expensive.  Supply and demand.
Some how some way you may be paid by what a wealthy person does as a hobby.
Should someone that makes less than you be able to down grade your past times and how much you spend on your hobbies?
If they made 50K would you somehow feel better?
Why Shouldn't he take a break from the event.  Obama said he is in charge and his groups have hampered every effort to burn, clean, skim, boom, and chemicals to break up the oil.  I think Obama wants an oil distaster so that he can close all off shore pumps.  I am not convinced this was not eco terrorism.  Why did Obama send Swat team to the oil rigs?
Why are you not yelling that Obama is playing Golf during a war, oil spill, economic melt down, and over spending?
How much does it cost the governemnt for him to play golf?  All the cars, security, and other factors.

[SHOOTALL]

yea I would feel better if they were making $50000.00 . Then gas would be .25 cent a gallon and the 80's , 90's and 00's would be in the future and life would still be good !

[mcwoodduck]

Enen if they did make that gas would still cost what it costs.  The taxes are 3 to 4 times the profit of what the oil company makes.
Why are you not screaming for lower taxes on the fuel.
Also the CEO making 50K a year would be a really bad CEO.
The people that make that would make it if they were not in the office.
I have been around some very wealthy people and thought it was odd that my friends father paid 4X what my father made in federal taxes.
They worked hard and played hard.

[SHOOTALL]

You missed my point we would be BACK in better times 

[beerbelly]

Those mean ol large companies are what allow us to have the highest living standard in the world.
     The government with it's high taxes and environmental BS is driving them over seas  and our standard of living with them.
                                         Beerbelly