The Right of Israel to Exist

[scootrd]

I pose this to contributors of this thread. If one believes the state of Israel has a right to exist , I ask which state boundaries should Israel adhere to ?


The Boundaries as of the UN partition plan as of  1947
The boundaries as of May 14, 1948
The Boundaries as of 1949 after Green Line was established
The Boundaries after November 22, 1967 with the withdrawal from occupied territories taken during the 6 day war
The boundaries agreed to during Oslo accord as of 3 September 1993
The boundaries of Oslo 2 accord as they were agreed to as of September 24, 1995
The Boundaries as they exist today now encompassing newly contested settlements?

[powderman]

The boundaries that God gave them. mans law means nothing to God. Israels real boundary goes almost to damascus for her Northern boundary, and is now occupied by 5 Godless nations.
I watched a show the other night with footage from the war in 48 and the one in 67 between Israel and all the Godless nations. Several instances where both syrians and egyptians ran away instead of fighting. They left behind BILLIONS of $ worth of bombs, rockets, ammo, equipment sent by russia to help their murderous cause. One man had thousands drop their weapons and surrender to him. Jeruselum was abandonded by the Godless ones and Israel walked right in, once again making it Gods Holy city. There were interviews of Israeli soldiers and also muslim. When asked why they ran instead of fighting with far superiour numbers the Godless ones all replied, facing us was an army of thousands of soldiers dressed in white uniforms pointing guns at them. This was not just from one man, or battle situation, but many. An Israeli soldier was badly wounded and 2 egyptian soldiers found him and was about to shoot him when a white light suddenly covered him, both he and the muslims saw it. The enemy lowered his rifle and said that he couldn't shoot because the God of Israel was protecting the man.
Sadly, Jeruselum will again have to be reclaimed. Theres no reason for any muslims to be there, let alone their mosques. Anybody here believe it was an accident that satans temple, the dome of the rock, was built on the very site of Gods Holy temple of old??? Nope, no accident because as long as it's there Gods temple cannot be rebuilt. The Hate Israel crowd knows the truth, but instead will continue to do satans work. Read the Bible guys, Gods Holy word, and know the truth. POWDERMAN.  

[ironglow]

  Yep !  ...Dan to Beersheba and beyond; now let's start a new thread..

 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+23%3A31%2CNumbers+34%3A1-15%2CDeuteronomy+1%3A7%2CDeuteronomy+1%3A8&version=NASB#en-NASB-2176

[powderman]

I don't believe that God promised any nation but Israel set boundaries for eternity. The boundaries are clearly laid out in Numbers ch 34. Israel doesn't need mans permission to exist. People either believe Gods word, or they don't. Israeli land is not negotiable, it's been established by God himself. Israel is now occupied by 5 Godless nations. I hope to see the day when Israel kicks them all out of their land. POWDERMAN. 

[Dee]

Provided you believe in the God of the Bible.

[billy_56081]

Dan I have no doubt myself.

[beerbelly]

A religious fanatic  is a religious fanatic whether he is a Jew , a Moslem or a Christian.
                     beerbelly

[teamnelson]

A religious fanatic  is a religious fanatic whether he is a Jew , a Moslem or a Christian.
                     beerbelly

could you describe a religious person that is not a fanatic?

[scootrd]

If you take the  religious Biblical approach (I read the passages provided ) I would like to see a map of exactly what that would encompass in the modern age.

I am now trying to find a map that pictorially shows what the biblical boundaries outlined then overlay-ed upon a modern map..does anyone have a link ? or can provide a map as reference?   

If you take a the political approach I believe the boundaries that should be adhered to as agreed upon are the boundaries as outlined within the Oslo accords and more granularly defined within Oslo 2 pact.   

[scootrd]

Found one - referencing the biblical passage in Numbers.
Now I need to find a modern one that can be overlayed against this one to see the differences as they exist today.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Map_Land_of_Israel.jpg

[FourBee]

scootrd:  Here are the boundries The Almighty God has promissed to Israel. 

[ironglow]

Scootrd;
  I think your map covers only part of the inheritance, the Caanan part. 9 tribes would settle there. Going to Exodus chapter 23, we get a more comprehensive description...borders outlined in Exodus 23:31. That description of the promised land more closely fits Fourbee's map.
  It is quite clear where the river of Egypt and the Euphrates river are, and they have barely moved over the millenia.

[teamnelson]

Having been all through there: western Iraq I wouldn't blame them if they passed. Syria, Lebanon & Jordan now, that's pretty country. But I'm guessing by the time that all gets hashed out it won't matter much anymore. Let he who has ears to hear ...

[ironglow]

A religious fanatic  is a religious fanatic whether he is a Jew , a Moslem or a Christian.
                     beerbelly

   ..Kind of like those "freedom fanatics", right ?

[ironglow]

Having been all through there: western Iraq I wouldn't blame them if they passed. Syria, Lebanon & Jordan now, that's pretty country. But I'm guessing by the time that all gets hashed out it won't matter much anymore. Let he who has ears to hear ...

  Ya gotta remember TN..they can't fathom the dry bones !  Yes...Let he who has an ear...

[williamlayton]

I am going to comment one time on this.
When Israel was given the land promised by God---He went before them and He took the land He promised.
He made a promise--it was theirs.
God has never backed down on His word and His covnant--and won't begin doing it ever.
When God is ready--not man or governments--WE will see the might of God in a way that will be undeniable.
He will overcome all and the land promised to Israel will be restored to the righful heirs of the promise.
Beerbelly--
It matters not what you believe--or I believe--It is what God will do. You can be left in the cold or get on the Ark IF you have eyes to see and ears too hear.
Blessings

[beerbelly]

If he ever decides to knock on my door and have a talk with me, I'll let him know how he has done a very poor job of running things! For someone all powerful you would think he could do a better job!
  I would like to have a talk with him about that virgin birth thing too. I would like to know how that works .
                                            Beerbelly

[powderman]

Ya gotta remember TN..they can't fathom the dry bones !  Yes...Let he who has an ear...


YEP. POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

If he ever decides to knock on my door and have a talk with me, I'll let him know how he has done a very poor job of running things! For someone all powerful you would think he could do a better job!
  I would like to have a talk with him about that virgin birth thing too. I would like to know how that works .
                                            Beerbelly

   Beerbelly;
          Rest assure, you will get a chance to talk to Him. When that time arrives, just keep in mind..we told you so...

     I doubt He will be answering any questions...more likely, He will be doing the talking.

     ...He may be looking for signs of blood however ..

[billy_56081]

I guess after seeing beerbellys knowledge (or lack there of) on the weapons used in the 1973 Yom Kippur war. I will give his credence in the knowledge of God absolutley zero value.

[beerbelly]

Ironglow, I am 71 years old and in lousy health. I would say the odds on me being here two years from now are very slim. So believe me, I would love to believe that little fairy tale. But I just know it is nor possible for it to be true.
  I have no problem with anyone else believing, my whole family  including my children believe. I would fight to the death for your right to believe, but as for myself I am afraid not.
                                       Beerbelly

[ironglow]

Beerbelly;
  I am 73..be 74 in a couple months and  I sympathize with you... in more ways than one. You sound like a man who has spurned the Holy Spirit just once too often.



    ...You may not have "crossed the Rubicon" of Romans 1:28..try again pray hard. James 1:5 says if you lack wisdom, pray and ask God for it. If you pray in real faith, he will give it to you...  I will pray for you as soon as I finish this post...

[searlock]

i am so glad there is a difference between the new and old testament and even more glad i know that difference.

[myronman3]

...... You sound like a man who has spurned the Holy Spirit just once too often.

 ...You may not have "crossed the Rubicon" of Romans 1:28..try again pray hard. James 1:5 says if you lack wisdom, pray and ask God for it. If you pray in real faith, he will give it to you...  I will pray for you as soon as I finish this post...

what he said.   

[blind ear]

Beerbelly. you hit the nail on the head. Being not afraid. A majority of people raise thier children to fear by rote doctrine (if you don't repent and accept this doctrine you will die and burn in hell forever). Fear makes it easy to believe in magic. Raise your children without fear and they can live and die with dignity while makeing a lifetime of logical decisions.

The Jews adopted thier doctrine from the Sumartans before them and that history was probably inherited from a culture prior to the Sumartans. Knowledge is the key to continuation of the legend. The holy men kept the secrets of education/knowledge and kept the ignorant masses enslaved to fear. eddiegjr

[ironglow]

ddiejr;
       Still trying to discipher you term "Sumartans".
  1) If you are referring to "Samaritans", that was sub group living in Israel in early NT days and a still indetifiable community there.
  2) If you are referring to "Sumerians", that is an ancient peoples in the Indus river area of lower Tigris & Euphrates rivers.
  3) If you are referring to "Sumatrans", those are islands in the Indonesian archipelago.
     
        Of these three cases, none had influence on the Jew's connection to God.
  You speak of raising children in fear; your philosophy may just be doing that. Knowledgeable Christians do not go about in fear. To the contrary, we walk about in confidant assurance of eternal life.  Scripture says "these things I write unto you, that you may KNOW you have eternal life".
   Your feigned smugness is well covered in ..Romans 1:20-25

[blind ear]

Your need for eternal life comes from your fear of death. You will die reguardless of the myths that you chant to yourself. Why fear it? Death is the simple end of life. After that there will be nothing. No pain, no fear no regret, no conchiousness, nothing.

Take away the myths of "eternal life" and devote the resources of intelligence and learning to the advancement of science and man may really attain "eternal life" some day. Until then religion will only serve to keep science and progress of knowledge in the darkness.

Religion teaches you to fear thinking anything contrary to it's teachings. It teaches you to fear to think.

eddiegjr

[SHOOTALL]

Until someone can explain how man was created , how earth was created , who did cause both to happen then I will believe in God . There is no missing link to see . There is nothing to tell us how "IT" all started . Faith in God seems reasonable and right. To those who think he has done a bad job least you forget we have a choice so much of what has happened on earth is do to the omission of God by some.
 And before you start using deeds done by certian religions keep in mind The Bible warns of false religions . Age of a religion or church does not make it correct or right . Maybe in some cases just good at false teachings God will judge them .

[myronman3]

well they have explained it..... "the big bang"       yeah, i know, it doesnt quite add up to me either.   i am as proud as anyone, but i am humble before God.    everytime i look at my children, i am reminded that such a divine gift could only come from heaven. 

[SHOOTALL]

They only offer it as a theory , I'm talking proof plain and simple . No double talk just plain english black and white print.
I suggest that any man that does not believe try to ask themselves why . Be honest with yourself and if man enough ask God to guide you in learning about him. If you invite God in you will learn . It would be better to know God before omiting him and if you are a man you should not fear the process.
 As far as teaching my children to fear God guess I messed up . I didn't do it . Sorry. They learned God loved them . They learned that if they strayed from Gods laws they risk hurt . That is not God hurting them . God shows us a way to avoid pain in many cases.