The Right of Israel to Exist

[Dee]

I think her comment is totally ridiculous and inane, but demonstrates the glib apostasy and lack of understanding of the new zio judaeo-christians...a further violation of the 3rd Commandment, too. And a congenital failure to dig deep for facts. By her and other reckoning that would make JC the first and biggest anti-semite around.!!


Basically, by bearmgc et al’s reckoning any criticism of the Golden Calf State is anti-semetic, and any consideration of the Christian Bible relating to questioning the validity of the state Israel is anti-semetic, or questioning their atrocities or attacks on aid flotillas is antisemetic, etc., etc. ad nauseum.  This is nothing more than a political immunization from critique and license to do whatever you want cause god said so. This is total poppycock. Nope, doesn't work that way....no 'nation states' under the New Covenant get surpemacist racist passes from their god legitimately, or from The God.  The Goldstone report is a report on war crimes and atrocities...btw, Christians do not sanction or tolerate war crimes.

Fact is Israel was founded on anti-semetism; principlely the anti-semetism by holocaust deal with support by Darbyized and Scofieldized zio Christians scrabbling verse. There is no reason or logic whatsoever that a normalized US of A should be supporting such apostasy and NWO shenanigans..

The biggest anti-semites are the judaeo-christian disp-tribbers who are willing to sacrifice most jews to fulfill their occult cosmology. Next to them are the Zionists ‘jews’ running the Marxist state of Israel...this is not my opinion; but the opinion of dozens and dozens of notable rabbis, as previously mentioned, who call these characters ‘gentiles’ actually, and prime enemies of righteous Judiasm.



..TM7
.

That's funny.

[Dee]

TM your gettin bitter in your old age. Your firin shots in all different directions and ain't hit a soul with a single one. I'm tha guy that takes up for ya every now and then when your stalkers get outta hand with their hecklin. Shame on ya, for not appreciatin me.

[powderman]

TM your gettin bitter in your old age. Your firin shots in all different directions and ain't hit a soul with a single one. I'm tha guy that takes up for ya every now and then when your stalkers get outta hand with their hecklin. Shame on ya, for not appreciatin me.

DEE. HEH, now T H A T was funny, but true. POWDERMAN. 

[billy_56081]

The old boy is fired up. I wonder if it wasn't heil Hitler day last weekend or something.

[Graybeard]

TM7 I'm tired of your disrespect for Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. Cease the use of JC in referring to Him or I will delete all posts in which you use it. Starts Rat now.

[powderman]

BILL. Thank you Sir. POWDERMAN. 

[williamlayton]

In plain english rather than in pseudo, hi falootin, board room reporting and trying to sound intelligent.
TM
Your way off base and tend too double talk.
Israel is a geographic are as described by God and given to a people He chose to become the root vine of the Creator/Savior Jesus Christ.
The vine IS Israel and we, Christians, are grafted into this vine, making US brothers of the Lord and extended Jews.
This land, the one commonly called Israel, witout getting into sematics which not only clouds the issue but denies the scripture, is/was/will be the restored nation--ground wise.
There is a hope, as described by Paul, for the Jews. How this works out is privy to God--but clearly, in the Apocypse, is described and ordered.
I am a Jew by new birth, and by this connection and new birth, am oblidged to protect my brothers--the Israelites..

BeerBelly---Make no mistake---they, Israel or the Israelites--however you wish to deleniate the description are under the protection of God and will not be nuked from the face of the earth.
Blessings    

[FourBee]

I am a Jew by new birth,

As one ole Christian friend always would say to me - - - " we are Jew inward ".

[teamnelson]

There are 2 arguments in support of Israel's right to exist as a land; 1) the dispensationalist evangelical view or Jewish view of the land promised to Abraham, or 2) what could be called the natural law argument of possession. Agreement on #1 is elusive, but #2 is still valid. Just like the USofA, any nation that is able to defend its ability to possess a piece of real estate is the owner - basic fact. As such, we should support their right to exist as we would any other nation which we have recognized. (There are nations out there, possessing land, which the US has not recognized, but still function like a nation without our support. Do they have a right to exist?)

As to #1, I am neither a dispensationalist, nor an anti-semite. Since it is only by the name of Jesus by which men can be saved, I cannot accept that there is a special plan for the salvation of Israel apart from each individual Jew having a regenerate heart and turning to Christ. As for the land, when Israel was scattered all over the world as the result of their own sin, and Rome was in charge of the land of Israel as the result of their own sin, and the temple was destroyed and a pig slaughtered on the altar, the early Jewish Christians believed Jesus could return at any moment. They had no requirement of the restoration of Israel in order for that to occur; what do we know that they didn't?

[Dee]

Your exactly right TN on the return of Christ. When folks start talking about this or that prophecy needing to be fulfilled, they have listened to too many Jack Van Impe shows. He will come as a thief in the night, and take only the best from the house, and will come unannounced.

[FourBee]

posted by - TN:   I cannot accept that there is a special plan for the salvation of Israel apart from each individual Jew having a regenerate heart and turning to Christ.

That's the whole point !   God made a covenant with Abraham concerning a land grant with Abraham's fleshly seed.  In the end they will accept Jesus Christ as their savior (mesiah) and that grant will be given.

[williamlayton]

TM
I am far afield from dispensationalism--not standing with Darby or Schofield.
If you had read my post and understood it you would not have responded as you did.
As far as communicating goes--if you understood the art you would not be so inclined too try and make it difficult for your reader--unless you are makeing a failed attempt at self impressionism.
The Revelation is written to the last day church. It will only be understood in its final days. Those days will find israel in possession of the land promised---in its entireity.
Now--that does not even touch on the main point, which you ignore because it clearly denies your false hypothicis.
WE, Christians of all ilk are grafted into the true root, Israel, and this is not a geographic area but a blood line. It may be necessary for you too come from the closet and admit you do not understand scripture at all, only what someone has written and told you to believe.
Christianity is not a learned position--it is a gift, which you seem not to want to pick up.
It is plain, from scripture, That this is the way God wills things too come to pass and man cannot control.
Blessings

[ironglow]

TN, Dee, Fourbee and William..you have provided sage advice. Does he have ears to hear ?

  TM;
 You made a couple statements which appear quite cryptic...Please explain;

 1) You indicated that Bearmgc was guilty of violating the 3rd commandment, please show where she used God's name in vain.

 2) You claimed that Hagee said Jesus Christ doesn't count anymore..please quote or show one of his videos where he claimed such a thing.
  Unless you do produce proof, we would be forced to conclude that you were just "sputtering".

[FourBee]

TN, Dee, Fourbee and William..you have provided sage advice.

Y'all must like sending me to the dictionary. 

[Dee]

posted by - TN:   I cannot accept that there is a special plan for the salvation of Israel apart from each individual Jew having a regenerate heart and turning to Christ.

That's the whole point !   God made a covenant with Abraham concerning a land grant with Abraham's fleshly seed.  In the end they will accept Jesus Christ as their savior (mesiah) and that grant will be given.

Correct. That is exactly what the 7 year tribulation is for. Not the saved, but the lost, and the lost is the Jew whom do not recognize Christ. In the end, they will be forced to accept Him, as he will be the only means of salvation, and then they will get the promised land back.

[powderman]

IRONGLOW. Tm is against John Hagee because he supports Israel, same as ANYBODY who supports Israel.
tm. As Bill said, Using jc referring to Jesus Christ is offensive to Christians but not to muslims, I assumed you knew this. As you said, we don't associate with the same people or religions. POWDERMAN. 

[williamlayton]

TN
I have a heart for Israel because I am grafted in.
I will admit to not knowing/having an answer for the questions you present, as I have the same thoughts.
I, like Paul, knows that God has a plan for Israel and that salvation for some is involved.
Unlike Schofield, I don't pretend to know the answer---I was not invited into that meeting.
Unlike many of the Reformed, I cannot hold to the thought of a pre-trib rapture and I pray they are correct.
I do know that during the Tribulation many will turn too Christ. Unlike Scofield, I don't believe it will be a return too the law as a method of salvation--because the Holy Spirit has been removed.
I believe the Holy Spirit will be in the hearts of many who move thru this period protected by God until He returns in the clouds.
The Spiritual Jew is still alive and I don't have any priviledged info how God looks at this---you could be correct---maybe I am just a bleeding heart for my kin.
I will defer this too God,
TN---You are my friend but I stand on the opposite side of this hedge. You need to learn how to read the scriptures for yourownself and quit depending on handlers too give you direction.
Blessings
Bill

[teamnelson]

WL , have you got me and TM7 confused?

[ironglow]

IRONGLOW. Tm is against John Hagee because he supports Israel, same as ANYBODY who supports Israel.
tm. As Bill said, Using jc referring to Jesus Christ is offensive to Christians but not to muslims, I assumed you knew this. As you said, we don't associate with the same people or religions. POWDERMAN. 

  Yup! Using initials for Jesus may seem OK to him...but don't call an Islamic terrorist.... a terrorist !

[blind ear]

Ya'll all seem to be of the same beliefe. What the heck is going on?

[williamlayton]

TN
I responded to you and Tm got caught up in the conversation. Chalk it up to an old mind--some would say "no Mind."
The response too you was concerning salvation by faith alone, in Christ jesus.
Blessings

[powderman]

WILLIAM. You are driving me nuts with your misuse of TOO, when it should be TO. TOO means also. Your post, your response ALSO you was by faith alone?? Sorry Dude but you drive me crazy with this.  POWDERMAN. 

[teamnelson]

Eddie, our common belief is in salvation through Christ alone. Where we may disagree is in our eschatology which is of no eternal significance so it's a ford vs chevy conversation. For the first few hundred years of the church no one bothered with this conversation - it was simply Jesus is coming soon. Over time it got more complex, and in the 19th century the dispensational premillenial (pretrib) view was developed which hinged on a special plan for Israel. Please pardon our dust ... Jesus is still coming soon. People get ready!

[Dee]

That's a pretty good overview of the denomonational situation. But just think! Methodist, Baptist, Southern Baptist, Independent Baptist, Pentecostal, and on, and on, SOMEBODY! Is right about the little things.

[teamnelson]

I'm pretty certain I am

[Dee]

Of course your. As long as you are in complete agreement with me.

[blind ear]

TN, yall sure do generate a lot of dust AND heat to be agreeing.

[teamnelson]

Eddie, that's cause church is like family, not a corporation. We'd like everyone to be in the family but we don't ask anyone to check their minds at the door. Were all growing up together.

[powderman]

Eddie, that's cause church is like family, not a corporation. We'd like everyone to be in the family but we don't ask anyone to check their minds at the door. Were all growing up together.

YEP. POWDERMAN. 

[williamlayton]

I too amcofused about it to.
Sorry for the aggrivation I will try to/too keep it straight.
Blessings