New peep sight for Handi rifles *new pics p.2*

[mike@nds]

OK, I have a homework project for you guys.

I only have 3 barrels of my own to measure and I think my .357 barrel from the mid 90's is smaller diameter than current production.

We need the muzzle diameters from your barrels. This way I can figure out what the most common diameters are to make a front sight for.

Please measure it with a dial caliber, and give me a three place call out.

Such as: .875"

Please state what caliber, model, and approximant year of manufacture is.

Good models to include are:

BC in 45/70

30-30

44.mag

.357mag

Survivour models

Please send your data to me via IM so we don't clog up the thread. 

[gcrank1]

At anything over a certain point of height a 'guthook' front blade snags stuff, a few thou. one way or the other wont make any real difference. To my eye, though, it comes down to the 'look'. A higher tapered base, as in the Williams , has been used for a long time on sporting rifles. Just look at any open sight equiped Ruger No.1, or some of the Rem. sporters too.
We do need some trials of this product now that a prototype has been developed.

[MSP Ret]

Larry, you are correct on the Versa Pak .22 LR front sight being the tallest. I unfortunately was thinking centerfire for some reason and forgot about the Versa Pak front sight. I thought of it after I got to bed last night and did not want to get up to make the change to my post, thinking I would get to it today. You beat me to it buddy...Thanks...<><....

[Mike in Virginia]

I like it!  But it needs to be threaded.  Nothing wrong with ghost rings for hunting, except that they don't work so well for long shots in good lighting, like groundhog hunting or target work.  That said, nothing beats a big hole for quick sighting in low light. 

[gcrank1]

Without re-engineering the peep is probably too far forward to fit a threadin anyway, unless you have a really long shank or possibly an extension adapter.
The old Lyman tang peep had a darn big hole too, and worked well. Ive noticed that people have a tendency to try to use too small an aperture, which costs points in a match. Scores are usually as good, or better, with one or two sizes too large than one size too small. Its all a function of the eye & brain working with available light in the 'self centering' aspect of apertures. Bigger hole = more light = better definition = higher scores (or more hits).

[MSP Ret]

Your right buddy, to make it work just as it is simply thread it and use a long shank peep (my preference is a Williams twi-light peep) and it would be fine. Just remove the long shank peep for the ghost ring effect....<><....

[mechanic]

I have had no problem with the BC sight, and it's a relatively small aperture.  If I had this sight, I would probably thread it myself, and buy up some eyepieces.  This however, is not a big deal.  If the sight is reasonable, I want one.

[gcrank1]

I agree, it is a nice piece of work at what looks to be a fair price. We need to support our 'craftsmen' who go out on a limb to develope something. After all, it is just for us and these goofy rifles!

[jlwilliams]

  Just waiting for the announcement that you have them for sale.

[kody]

 What if the sight swapped ends? Then an aperture flange would clear the ghost ring base but then could the adjustment wheel be moved back to the right side. I'm a lefty so it could stay right where it was as far as I'm concerned.      Ken

[Spanky]

This site and a matching front would go good on my 44mag shorty when I get it back from the smithy... hint hint hint!!



Spanky

[mike@nds]

I had some other things to do so that took a while. But they went out for black oxide today.

We should have them back next week. I'll post updated pics.

I only had one member PM me barrel diameter info, so I'm guess'n ya'll have it covered on your end for the front sights.

[ronipike]

Wow that looks like a great rear sight!.  Finally someone is making a quality sight at a reasonable price.  I will send you the diameter for my .357.

[ronipike]

Mike when will we be seeing a ladder version of this sight?

[Catshooter45]

Mike,

Here's some muzzle diameter.  Measured with a Starrett mic, right at the muzzle.  The only year of manufacture I can help you with is the .45-70 which is '91.  The rest are just barrels with no recievers.  But I did include whatever was stamped on the barrel.

Handi Rifle SB 2 .44 Mag  .802

Handi Rifle SB 2 .30-30  .641

Handi Rifle  .223  .665

Handi Rifle SB 2  .45-70  .806

Classic Carbine .45 Colt  .706

I know you asked for a PM but I thought this data might be helpful for others too.  I can PM it if you need it.

I would only buy a sight if it is threaded for Lyman sized inserts which I think is 7/32 x 40.  That way I can have a ghost ring or put in one of my own inserts.  Don't want to discourage you in this venture, I just wanted to be honest.  Thanks.


Cat

[Weatherman68]

This looks like it could be just the ticket.  I have a Shikari and the sights on it are no good for my old eyes.  I don't want to put on a scope so maybe this is just what I have been looking for.  Please let me know when you have them available for sale.  Nice job!!

[mike@nds]

Here's some pics of the test guns I mounted the sights on.

Gun #1 SB2 in .357 Maximum with muzzle diameter of .750".

Front sight had to be .580" tall to get a point of aim zero at 100 yards with the peep at the lowest setting. This is .115" taller than the factory original, but at the low end for the Williams base shown in the photo.

Load was 18grs. H110 with a Hornady 180gr. XTP. I don't know the exact velocity because I don't have a chronograph. I figure around 1900fps.



Gun #2: Huntsman .50 cal with muzzle diameter of .890"

The front sight used was a clamp-on deal from MMC it was approximately .500" tall to get a 50 yard zero. I had to screw the peep up 3 half turns to get proper elevation.

The load was 95grs. Pyrodex RS with a .44cal 300gr XTP in a sabot. Velocity was approximately 1550 according to the Hornady website.

The front sight shown in the picture is the factory original, it is .590" tall and will require the rear to be elevated some more.



The dimension for a proper zero with the .357 Max was .955" from the top of the post to the center-line of the bore.

Smaller diameter barrels will require tall front sight bases, fat barrels will require shorter ones.

Also;flat shooting cartridges will need taller front sights than slow, looping cartridges.

I did not check the range of windage adjustment on the sight because it was way to windy to get accurate data. But I would recommend that you make sure the front blade is timed up with the rear sight before you try to zero.

Unfortunately, H&R's quality control is lacking; neither of these rifles have holes for the front blade that times up with the scope base holes worth beans. This may require the front sight to be soldered on to better time with the rear mounting holes.

Overall I'm very pleased with the sight, and will be using it for deer hunting this year on the .357 Maximum.

Feel free to start ordering them.

[tacklebury]

Excellent finished product!  I've bookmarked it and will order one as soon as fundage is available. 

[gatersb]

i agree when funds allow this will be a purchase.

[gcrank1]

Yep, now I gotta put my money where my mouth is! I WILL be ordering asap.....just figured out how to access your site and order info. Thanx for doing this!
I will probably try it first on my 38-55TM, since I still have the factory globe on it. If so, I will report how the -0- is.

[Spanky]

How much and where do I send the money?
PM me with info please.



Spanky

[mike@nds]

How much and where do I send the money?
PM me with info please.



Spanky

Orders can be mailed in using the order form on our website: www.nodakspud.com

Or you can call in an order using a CC.
ph: 952-942-1909

[Catshooter45]

Nice looking sight.

As I said in an earlier post, I'll buy one when I can either use it as shown (only as a ghost ring) or with screw in peeps.

If you do engineer it to use the screw-ins, please remember that some of the peeps have an outside diameter of nearly .750.

They also come in two thread sizes, 10 x 32 and 7/32 x 40.  I prefer the latter and I use the Merit peep with an adjustable aperture (sp?).


Cat

[GrampaMike]

Just ordered 2 of these.

Which of our handi's do you think they would work best? 

Would a front globe like whats on the BC work on any of the other Handi's with this rear sight?

Ideas, please.

Mike

[mike@nds]

Just ordered 2 of these.

Which of our handi's do you think they would work best? 

Would a front globe like whats on the BC work on any of the other Handi's with this rear sight?

Ideas, please.

Mike

I think the best application of this sight is for guns that need a simple, durable peep sight. Woods guns in calibers such as:

Magnum pistol (.357, .44, .45LC, .500 S&W, etc.)
30-30
45/70
Survivor models (.223, .308)
And soldered on to shotgun barrels as a slug sight.

It's really not a target grade sight in this configuration, more of a hunting/survival rifle type unit.

If you are to use it on a BC, rapid elevation changes across the course could be slow. When I get some free time I will try to develop a replacement ladder as an upgrade for this base.

Also, when using a globe front you may or may not like the way the "rings" line up, as aperture size can't be changed on the unit right now.

I know some guys want screw in apertures, but my intention is to have this be a "base model" at a reasonable cost to us, and therefore you.

[GrampaMike]

Thanks Mike.

Thinking about my 500 S&W and one of my 30-30's right now.  Possible 45 Colt carbine.

Thought maybe one of the inserts for the globe might give a good sight picture.

I will try different combo's just to see how they look and perform.

Not to worry, only expecting close-range hunting accuracy.

Mike

[mike@nds]

Last week when I was testing it I shot a quick 1.5" group at 100 yards with the .357 Max.

I think I can do better with a finer front post. The one I had was the same width as the target at that range. 

[gcrank1]

A good number of iron sight target shooters like a front blade the width of the bull. Hold it at 6:00 and 'dot the i' and you shoot good groups. The eye tends to line up the sides of the blade with the edge of the bull.
Nothing wrong with 1.5"@100 anyway!

[Lefty Dude]

I have used both a 3/32" and a 1/16" front bead. I prefer the Williams 1/16" fire sight.

If you are going to change & adjust front sights in a Williams ramp I would suggest a Front sight pusher.

[ronbob]

Just ordered one for the 30-30 Handi, they said it would ship tomorrow and should be to my place on Saturday or Monday.
Kinda excited to see how it works with my lazy eye.