Author Topic: Which one and why. (Read 1356 times)

wind drift · « **on:** June 22, 2010, 04:31:49 PM »

Wanting to get a 20 incher rifle hard time picking one choices are THE SPS OR THE SAVAGE 10PC IN308 have heard alot about both have been a rem. man all my life but the sav. seems to have alot going for it.Any info. would be app. THANKS

Swampman · « **Reply #1 on:** June 22, 2010, 04:35:36 PM »

I wouldn't buy the Savage for the same reason the military & law enforcement doesn't.

wind drift · « **Reply #2 on:** June 22, 2010, 05:29:45 PM »

Swampman and what might that reason be.

Swampman · « **Reply #3 on:** June 23, 2010, 12:39:45 AM »

Accuracy

bremraf · « **Reply #4 on:** June 23, 2010, 02:50:02 AM »

I know of 4 or 5 Savages that are extremely accuracte with no modifications swampman... let's see...
1. Pre accutrigger 30-06 1 1/2 goups with cheapo factory ammo (buddy's dad's)
2. Pre accutrigger .270 1" groups cheapo factory ammo (buddy's)
3. Accutrigger stainless 30-06 sub 1" groups good factory ammo(mine, no longer with me, pre reloading days) and 1 1/2 with cheapo factory
4. Pre Accutrigger 30-06 1 1/2" cheapo factory ammo(My dad's)

Now, I like remingtons alot. I'm just not sure if one is better than the other. They both have some pros and cons... Savage seems to be continually improving their product to compete with Remington and the other big manufacturers, and Remington just seems to come up with more marketing crap to make their 700s look better than the competition. Now that being said, I don't buy guns sight unseen, I have to make that gun purchase in person... so if i liked the feel of the Remington in question over the Savage and had the coin I'd buy it or vice versa.

Swampman · « **Reply #5 on:** June 23, 2010, 03:32:14 AM »

There's nothing to improve on the Remington. 1 1/2" groups

mannyrock · « **Reply #6 on:** June 23, 2010, 04:40:51 AM »

Windriff,

Just some thoughts here. If I were you, I would buy a used rifle, in VG condition, in either the Rem or Savage, with a standard 22 inch barrel, and then have the barrel shortened to 21 inches (instead of 20 inches). A 20 inch barrel with a .308 has a huge muzzle blast. Having that one inch of extra barrel helps reduce it considerably, and it is just as handy (and better balanced) than a 20 inch barrel. Believe me, you will never notice that extra inch of barrel in the woods or in a stand.

By doing all of this, you will save hundreds of dollars over a new rifle, and end up with a much better product.

Handle alot of Remingtons and Savages, side by side, and just pick the one that feels right for you. They are both excellent rifles.

Regards,

Mannyrock

charles p · « **Reply #7 on:** June 23, 2010, 04:59:31 AM »

I'd buy the Model Seven. If you want a short light 308 bolt rifle, with outstanding accuracy, the Model Seven will be difficult to top. I love mine.

yooper77 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 23, 2010, 05:57:31 AM »

1 ½” groups are very easy to perform with basic ammo and all manufactures factory rifles, not just Remington. Both Remington and Savage are equally accurate. I like to have a magazine floor plate, so that would be a deciding factor between them. I am not sure if the Savage 10PC has a floor plate, but the Remington SPS does. The best way to achieve the best accuracy is to make sure you use good scope mount, rings and quality optic, unless you are looking at open sights. Given the person behind the rifle does his or her part.

I shoot 7 shots to measure my accuracy in my firearms, 3 – 5 shots just isn’t enough in my eyes.

I also really like Remington model seven which is offered in 308 Winchester and a 20” barrel.

yooper77

Happy · « **Reply #9 on:** June 23, 2010, 07:34:09 AM »

The only problem the Savage has is the cocking on bolt lift .I found this required one to drop the rifle off the shoulder and hitting the bolt with the palm of the hand to reload. There is a kit to improve this mind you . Other than that the rifles sure can shoot .
The older Remington bolts were indeed fine rifles , once the triggers were reworked . There have been some bad press that the newer units are not what the older rifles used to be.
The idea of buying a used rifle has some merit .Think a lot of product out there is not what things used to be .
Have a look at Browning A bolt as well as Tikka . As well as the FN winchester .

Swampman · « **Reply #10 on:** June 23, 2010, 10:47:17 AM »

Current Remington production is better than anything they've made in the past. Fully adjustable triggers that are light and crisp from the factory. The Model 700 is the best sellling, most popular, and most accurate production rifle in the world.

Happy · « **Reply #11 on:** June 23, 2010, 12:52:19 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 23, 2010, 03:32:14 AM

There's nothing to improve on the Remington. 1 1/2" groups

"I could do better with my Mark 4 303 British"

Guess because of those groups- Savage arms does so well with the 1/2" groups if you do your part .

My 660 Rem in 308W did well too!!, after the trigger was replaced and tuned -to just under three pounds .

SD Handgunner · « **Reply #12 on:** June 23, 2010, 01:24:53 PM »

Wind Drift, it you are indeed talking about the Remington SPS Tactical I would indeed handle one before I bought one.

This past winter I had my heart set on a new Remington Model 700 SPS Tactical in .308, that is until I handled one. I absolutely loved everything about the gun EXCEPT the Hogue Stock. That Rubber Overmolded Stock seems to catch on everything, and everything seems to stick to it. In addition it is longer in the buttstock than other Remington Rifles. I am 6'2" tall and it was too long for me. I talked to my local gunsmith about shortening the Rubber Overmolded Stock, and he told me he has looked at them for one of his customers and there is no good way to shorten that type of stock with the Rubber Overmolding.

In the end I ended up having my gunsmith order me in a new Remington Model 700 SPS in .308 with the standard contour 24" Barrel. I promptly had the barrel shortened and recrowned at 20". This makes for a really great handling, lightweight rifle.

I have had quite a time with this new Remington. It has to have had the roughest bore I have ever seen on a Rifle of any kind. It would copper foul so horriblly in as few as 5 shots that it would literally take hours to get the copper out. I polished the bore with Flitz Metal Polish many, many times and had the lands like a mirror. The results were the same. This Rifle was averaging just under 1 1/2" groups with handloads (150gr. & 165gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips loaded with Varget).

After struggling with this new Remington for 250 rounds or so I finally decided to try something drastic. I purchased a Tubbs Final Finish Fire Lapping Kit, 50 bullets impregnated with Polishing Grit. I followed the instructions to the letter and was quite pleased that the kit did everything the maker advertised that it would. It indeed smoothed out the bore. It ineed made cleaning much easier. It foulded less. It lengthened the throat, improved accuracy and velocity (26 FPS).

Now this rifle will shot groups slightly under an inch, clean up is quite easy.

The point I am trying to make here is to closely examine the rifles you are considering, for not only fit, feel and comfort but also pay close attention to the bore. This is the 3rd new Remington with a bore like this that I know of (my buddy is on his 2nd Remington in .204 Ruger and his current Stainless SPS is no better than the first one he had that he had sent back to Remington to be lapped and it still coppered as bad as it did originally).

I have other Remington guns and am quite sure I will buy more, but not sight unseen. If I had not shortened my barrel I would have indeed sent my .308 back to Remington.

Larry

Hooker · « **Reply #13 on:** June 23, 2010, 03:01:58 PM »

I have the Remington SPS Tactical in 308 it has a 20" heavy barrel, a 40" overall length and weighs 7 1/2 pounds.
It's a sweet heart to carry and handles well in the dense pine thickets and extremely rough terrain of SE Oklahoma.
The muzzle blast is a non issue I can't tell any difference from it and my Ruger with a 22" barrel.
Like all my Remingtons it is more than accurate enough for the deer woods and the stubby rifle is not a handicap on the wheat fields either.
The few Savages I have shot were accurate they just weren't Remingtons.

Pat

hillbill · « **Reply #14 on:** June 23, 2010, 03:32:35 PM »

id handle them both and go with the one that felt the best carrying and comeing to my shoulder.they both good guns, thats obvious as yu got guys argueing each is the best.as far as accuracy? a 20 in rifle is normally a brush gun. they will both hit a softball size target at 200 yrds.thattl git yur deer everytime.just choose the one yu like best.

yooper77 · « **Reply #15 on:** June 23, 2010, 03:41:12 PM »

Quote from: hillbill on June 23, 2010, 03:32:35 PM

a 20 in rifle is normally a brush gun.

Having a rifle in 308 Winchester with short barrel doesn’t limit its range; it’s very capable of serious long range results.

Also I have had 10” and 15” 7mm-08 Remington barrels for my T/C Encore and shot consistently at 300 yards with excellent accuracy.

yooper77

v-man · « **Reply #16 on:** June 23, 2010, 03:54:04 PM »

a hearty +1 for the model 7.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #17 on:** June 23, 2010, 07:53:53 PM »

Quote from: wind drift on June 22, 2010, 04:31:49 PM

Wanting to get a 20 incher rifle hard time picking one choices are THE SPS OR THE SAVAGE 10PC IN308 have heard alot about both have been a rem. man all my life but the sav. seems to have alot going for it.Any info. would be app. THANKS

The last two new Remingtons I've shot weren't very accurate with any of the several factory ammo offerings I tried in them. By contrast, the Savage rifle I got for my son-in-law is quite accurate.

In the end, either will do for hunting. If you want top accuracy out of the box, I suggest Savage.

JPShelton · « **Reply #18 on:** June 23, 2010, 11:24:26 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 22, 2010, 04:35:36 PM

I wouldn't buy the Savage for the same reason the military & law enforcement doesn't.

I hate to be a stickler for accuracy, but law enforcement agencies most definitely DO purchase Savage rifles.

-JP

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #19 on:** June 24, 2010, 03:34:15 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 23, 2010, 12:39:45 AM

Accuracy

Bravo sierra

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #20 on:** June 24, 2010, 06:17:57 PM »

Quote from: JPShelton on June 23, 2010, 11:24:26 PM

Quote from: Swampman on June 22, 2010, 04:35:36 PM
I wouldn't buy the Savage for the same reason the military & law enforcement doesn't.

I hate to be a stickler for accuracy, but law enforcement agencies most definitely DO purchase Savage rifles.

-JP

Swampy never lets facts get in the way of his green fantasies.

wind drift · « **Reply #21 on:** June 28, 2010, 06:59:20 PM »

This gun will be for target shooting only i already have a 1970 ADL 308 20 inch barr. for hunting and it shoots the 165 gr. gamekings very well.The advantage the sav. has over the SPS is a detach. mag and the acc. stock.BUT hold on SWAMPMAN the new SPS TAC. comes with a threaded barr. for a muzz. break or a can. The more i think about the harder my decision gets just dont know which one to go with.

Happy · « **Reply #22 on:** June 28, 2010, 10:17:52 PM »

Well the older 660 Remington in 308 with the 20 inch barrel I had , could keep them in just over half an inch @100 if you did your part . The Model 7 I guess replaced that model . The 660 how ever had a heavier barrel and it was a bit heavy to carry .
I few lads at the gun club did not like the model seven because they would not group .
Then I feel that most rifles now need to be tweaked .
The only rifle That I did not do anything to other than a Limbsaver pad, has been the Tikka t3.

So go with the one that fits you the best , buy a good scope and rings and off to the range. Then we can all help you ring the most out of the beast .
We can argue Chev V/s Ford 'til the cows come home

wareagleguy · « **Reply #23 on:** June 30, 2010, 06:22:25 AM »

I have many Remingtons and many Savages. If I was in the market to buy another one today it would be another Savage. Every savage I own will produce a tighter 5 shot group @ 100 yards than any of my Remingtons.

I have a Savage Model 14 in 7mm-08 that shoots better (thighter groups) than my $1300 Sako.

The good for Remington
1. Can find MANY after market parts and add-ons.
2. Can find may smiths to work on one.
3. Hold fairly good resale

The good for Savage.
1. Very accurate
2. Can to most of the smith work yourself. Barrel change is very easy and can find many suppliers for different barrels.

I try not to get on to anyone here but Swamp can sure stur things up.
So, I would like to ask Swamp to a shoot out. I have a factory Savage with NO modifications and would like to call you out and we will see if you can out shoot me at 100 yards with my POS Savage. My Savage is stock so I ask you have have same with your Remington. We get 1 hours to prepare and setup before the shooting begins. The targets will be 100 yards (5 shots), 200 yards (5 shots) and 300 yards (5 shots). We will use what ever score card you would like to use. Would $500 bucks to the winner sound good?

I would be willing to travel too.

wind drift · « **Reply #24 on:** June 30, 2010, 07:35:34 AM »

Waregaelguy i think i will get the sav. going to get the 10fcp with the McMillan stock it sure is a nice looking gun. I to like the fact that you can change the bar. yourself this gun also comes with detach. mag. just hope like hell it shoots other wise i will never hear the end of it from my rem. friends.

wareagleguy · « **Reply #25 on:** June 30, 2010, 08:17:47 AM »

I too looked down my nose at Savage for years. I always thought the Savage to be a cheap gun. Out of the blue I purchased one (many years ago) and was never the same after that. I find the Savage to be about the best bang for the buck rifle you can buy. It simply shoots and the best way to get your friends to shut up about it is to put a little money on a shooting contest.

I sure hope Swampwater takes my challenge cause I need the money.

You will love the Savage!