.40 for deer?

[rednekhuntr]

Not that I'm planning on doing it (cause there's no handgun hunting in Canada), but have any of you guys taken a whitetail with your 40?  I realise that's supposedly under powered, but I manage to take one every year with my bow (whick is basicly a sharp stick).

[moxgrove]

Nope, but I have with a .38-40 . Did just fine at 50 yards.

[yooper77]

Not that I'm planning on doing it (cause there's no handgun hunting in Canada), but have any of you guys taken a whitetail with your 40?  I realise that's supposedly under powered, but I manage to take one every year with my bow (whick is basicly a sharp stick).

Just my thought, comparing any firearm cartridge to archery is apples to oranges.

The sharp broad head offers superior and humane killed ability and I would choose over a 40 S&W and I guess you meant when you say 40?

Now, I wouldn’t use the 40 S&W for deer, but minimum the 10mm Auto, but that is clearly a different cartridge.  I am sure the 40 S&W would kill perfectly, with bullets from 155 to 180 grain Hornady XTP bullets.  I am not surprised the 38-40 did well, but the shooter was the main reason for success.

Question is it legal for use?

yooper77

[rednekhuntr]

Yes, I meant 40 s and w.  No, unfortunately it's not leagal to hunt with any handgun in Canada (I'm not sure what the laws are in various states).
You're right, the comparing bows and firearms isn't really fair.  I have, however taken several deer with my .45 flintlock Kentucky rifle (70 grs of 3f), and a lead roundball.  Probably should've compared that instead.
I'm just curious about the results that anyone who has used the 40 S&W on deer has had.

[flintlock]

Yep, I've killed one with a .40...But, it had already been spined by a bow...The bullet went through the lungs and exited...

I've also killed a few with a .40 flintlock and 50grs of FFF powder...A fellow can kill deer with just about anything if he is patient and can shoot...

[Graybeard]

Wouldn't be my first choice and I can't imagine that I'd intentionally go looking for deer with the .40 S&W but if I had only my G22 and the opportunity presented itself within my ability to place the bullet properly I'd expect a dead deer.

If you put the bullet from the .40 where it belongs a dead deer will result.

[Scibaer]

I shot a fairly descent coyote with my .40 S&W. it was about 25 yards out and standing nearly straight at me
 hit it in the shoulder with a 165 grain JHP pushed by 5.2 grains of titegroup
busted the shoulder and turn the guts to mush, no exit wound
the yote did a half back flip and was finished..

[jedman]

       I have seen a cow Elk that was shot with a 1911  45 acp, A complete pass thru in the chest from 25 yards.  The owner of the camp I was at took a guy out on private land along the White river in Colorado in some heavy black timber. He told me the Elk went about 40 yards and was down.
  I never asked if that was a legal firearm to use during rifle season ? But I agree with Graybeard,
" if you put the bullet from the .40 where it belongs a dead deer will result."

[buckeye509]

I got an 8" barrel in 40 S&W from Bullberry when they had the sale on shorts. I have toyed with the idea of using in Ohio, once I determine it's a legal caliber to use from ODNR. This past season I had several opportunities for shots during gun season on mature and yearling does at under 20 yards. I think with a well placed shot, at an un-alarmed deer, the 40 would do the trick under similar circumstances. Of course the barrel has to pass muster at the range.

[timothy]

These threads fail to address the platform the cartridge is used in. How about a .380 for pheasant? Most .40 cal pistols have everything you dont want in a target or hunting handgun. Short sight radius, light weight, da trigger, large sights, fixed sights, two tone sights. Theres nothing wrong with the caliber the problem is with the gun.

[Curtis]

I agree Timothy, although I've made some shots at 50 yds with my M&P Compact (casual shooting) that surprised everyone including me.

Flintlock, I am also curious as to what bullet gave your pass through on that deer.  155, 180?  xtp, fmj?  I would imagine choice of projectile is an important consideration, second to proficiency of the shooter of course.

Curtis

[SHOOTALL]

The 40 is expected ( or hoped ) to stop a 300 lb drug crazed man , can't see any reason a 100 lb doe at rest would be hard to take.

[Spirithawk]

Will a .40 kill a deer? Well consider this. More deer have been killed with a .22 rifle than all other calibers combined. Not legally of course but they were just as dead. It's where you put the bullet, not the caliber, that kills. That doesn't mean that's justification to use certain calibers. Many have very bad reputations for just wounding deer.  Ethics rule that you use a heavy enough caliber that, even when poor shots are made, they do enough damage to kill the deer.

[Graybeard]

That's a mighty bold claim. I'd need to see an authoritative source of such info. Personally I think it's just one more of those old wife's tales or urban legends that get passed around so commonly.

There is just no way I can believe more deer have been killed with the .22LR than all others put together. The old .30-30 can lay a lot stronger claim than the rimfire I believe and even it isn't more than all tho it still might have killed more than the next closest runner up.

[flintlock]

In the decades before the American Revolution there were over 100,000 deer a year shipped out of Salisbury, NC for England...Deer hides were the #1 export from this region for many years...It could very well be that the lowly patched round ball killed more deer than any other...We can't imagine killing 8-10 deer a day over several months and then tanning them and packing them to market...This is where the term buck got it's name as a buck's hide brought a Spanish Dollar...At any rate, it's pretty well documented that deer herds in the eastern area of the US were decimented by the early 1800s...This is one reason calibers went from .50-54 caliber to .32-40 caliber at this time...

On the .22 not being legal...It's perfectly legal in NC as they simply don't stipulate what we have to use...Many farm boys have killed deer while sitting on a white oak ridge squirrel hunting...Back in the 60s we would smoke 20 pigs a year that my dad killed with a .22 short out of a revolver to the brain...He used a short because a long rifle would often end up in the shoulder...

The .40 caliber load I happed to have in the gun the day I had to dispatch that deer was a Speer Gold Dot 180gr hollow point...

Finally, if one buckshot in the lungs of a deer from #1 or 00 will kill a deer, why not a .40 caliber???

[Spirithawk]

Wouldn't be my first choice and I can't imagine that I'd intentionally go looking for deer with the .40 S&W but if I had only my G22 and the opportunity presented itself within my ability to place the bullet properly I'd expect a dead deer.

If you put the bullet from the .40 where it belongs a dead deer will result.

You may be right but I've had more than one game warden swear to it. I'd lay odds it's shot more than any other single caliber. Simply because not everybody owns a .30 .30 but everyone owns a .22. I'm not saying it's right nor wrong but I know several farm folk that's put a deer in the freezer when times were hard using a .22. Not to mention people that just shoot a deer out of season just because they think they can. My whole point of the post though was that about any caliber will kill a deer but that doesn't mean you should use it.

[223fan]

Deer are fairly easy to kill,if you put the bullet where it needs to be.I'm sure a 40 S&W would kill one,I think sights would be a major factor though.

[Spirithawk]

This is from an article by a fellow named Chuck Hawks on deer rifles;

The top six deer cartridges in North America, in terms of factory ammunition sales, are the .30-06 Spfd., .270 Win., .30-30 Win., .308 Win., .243 Win., and 7mm Rem. Mag. All of these are popular deer cartridges, but they are clearly diverse in their capabilities.

[Ole Man Dan]

I shot & killed a Doe with a Hornady 180 Hydro-Shock out of a Sig 229.  (1 shot kill)
The secret is to get close and shoot for the chest.

H O W E V E R.....

I would not generally recommend the .40 for Deer Hunting.. 
My general recommendation would be to use a .41 Mag or larger for any large game animal.
My preferences are .44 mag & .45 Colt shooting a 250 grain Flat Point or heavier.

[Ak.Hiker]

If I needed to kill a deer with my 40 S&W out of the loads I have on hand I would use the Hornady 155 grain XTP. Don't think I would need the deeper penetration of a FMJ. My thought is the 40 would only get used for deer up real close or in some kind of emergency. I would think it would do about as well as the 45 acp. A one shot kill on an elk with complete pass through is pretty intresting. They must have been using a heavy JHP or ball for that kind of penetration.  

[WL44]

There never seems to be quite this argument about the 10mm. So, my view on these things is that you can therefore deduce that a .40 will certainly kill a deer at closer range than a 10mm - in other words where the ballistics are the same. It's much like the argument that a 308 win will kill anything a 300 Win Mag will kill at 350 yards at closer range.

That said, the 40 should work, but would not be my first choice. I'd suggest a good LBT cast 165 or 180gr, or something else with a decent meplat if the range is longer. If the range is close and you have a load with a 155 Gold Dot or maybe an XTP at 1200 fps plus you may get expansion and a quicker result. Don't bargain on any at 50 yards... I'd be shooting for the triangle between the humerus and scapula to take out the top of the heart and lungs.

Would it be my first choice? No. Would my view differ in a Contender barrel? Yes! I'm not certain, but with more barrel length you may get close to or equal 10mm ballistics. Also you may be able to load a lot longer.

I've never shot anything with my 40's. I can confirm that the platform changes things a lot. With the greater AOL I can load in my Para Ord for example the ballistics seem to comfortably exceed that from my Glock if I am inclined to do that, as I get more case capacity. 

[shot1]

I have never shot a deer with a 40 S&W but I have killed a few with a 1911A1 Colt in 45 ACP with a 200 gr LSWC and 7 grs Unique. It was not lawful at the time in NC to hunt deer with a pistol when I did this but I could cast my own bullet and load my own shell much cheaper than a buckshot 12 ga shell cost. I was on a very tight budget and my wife and I needed to eat and there were plenty of deer. I kept my shots to under 50 yards and it will double lung one every time. They will go between 50 and 100 yards before they bleed out. A 40 S&W used with a good 180 XTP or Gold Dot should do the same thing under the same conditions. I know a number of people here in TN that have taken deer with cap and ball 44 cal. Colt Army and Remington BP pistols. Put the bullet in the lungs or heart and you will have a dead deer. You may have to trail it a ways but it will be just as dead.

By the way. People really underestimate the killing ability of an arrow. A sharp broad head with the weight of an arrow attached going 500 or 600 fps is an awesome killer. I use a Spitfire expandable broad head and it will cut a hole in a deer that you can literally stick a pop can through. It kills deer much quicker than some of the pistol and rifle rounds I have shot deer with. 

[SHOOTALL]

500-600 fps , what bow can deliver this ? harpoon gun ?

[Scibaer]

there is not  a production bow out there that runs arrows at 500 + fps.
 the newest bows out now claims speeds of 330 fps or there abouts depending on setup configuration
 secondly, a broadhead kills by bleedout and a bullet transfers kinetic energy .. so thats like
comparing apples to apple cider ...
 third, i do think a .40 will take a deer or even a hog for that matter.

[SHOOTALL]

Yea ! And I didn't even bring up that expandable arrow heads work more like a switch blade than a hollow point bullet !

[shot1]

My mistake. It has been a long time since I cronoed my bow. But you get the picture. 275 to 300 fps then. Cutting a big hole through things needed to live. A bullet does not kill by shock it kills by cutting a hole through things needed to live. If a bullet killed by kinetic energy everything shot with a bullet would be slammed on the ground like a train had hit it. A bullet with say 1000 foot pounds of energy would cause the same results as dropping 1000 pounds onto something if bullets killed by kinetic energy. I have never picked up a pancaked deer. 

[Scibaer]

Actually bullets do kill by kinetic energy , or more precisely the transfer of kinetic energy in creating a wound channel.
I'll make this basic explanation, When bullets move, they have momentum. The faster they move and the heavier they are, the more momentum they have.  Even though bullets are tiny, they have lots of momentum because they go so fast, relative to their mass. They also have huge amounts of kinetic energy, which they get from the chemical energy of the burning gunpowder. Bullets do damage when they transfer their kinetic energy to the things they hit. The faster something loses its momentum, the more force it produces.  A rifle bullet coming to a stop in a tenth of a second produces as much force as a heavy, slow moving truck coming to rest in 10 seconds. That large transfer of kinetic energy makes a primary and secondary wound channels.  primary and secondary wound channels are more recently and correctly called permanent and temporary cavitation channels, but  i think, from that point, we all know what happens. there is no need to discuss hydrostatic shock.
bullets, lead or copper jacketed in any configuration, do not kill by cutting.

[shot1]

To each his own.

[SHOOTALL]

I have never seen a pancaked deer either but many times have seen shoulder areas that looked like jello from the energy transfer a bullet leaves .

Shot1 , if you have any doubt about kenitic energy transfer , don a bullet proof vest with a plate and let someone center punch the plate with say a 357 mag. 

[flintlock]

Kinda like Clint Eastwood???