.40 for deer?

[SHOOTALL]

Kinda like Clint Eastwood???

he can use a 44mag. if hewants more education 

[Yes, 357_SIG]

Well, it's raining ... has been all week.
                                                                           
Guess I might as well wade into this free for all.
                                                                        
******************
First, arrows have killing power beyond "normal" explanation.
Kinda like seeing pine needles blown through [lumber] walls in a hurricane.
Call it voodoo.               
                             
When I graduated to the then new hot dog recurve bows, we were amazed at what they could do ... "instinct" shooting  ... with NO sights !             
  ...  Fred Bear was taking elephants and lions with a recurve bow, ... and broadheads.
... many years ago, ... before the fabulous recent advances in modern compound bows, arrowheads, and archery in general.
                                                                              

****************
My Choctaw [native American Indian] Aunt probably killed more deer with a 22 rimfire than most men ever see.
Of course, she could literally slip up on me ... and put a hand on my shoulder ... to let me know she was there.
Never heard or saw her coming.                           
I swear she just "materialized" out of the air.                    

She could have probably taken bucks with a baseball bat and harvested does with a golf club.           
 
****************

It is quite simply WRONG for a SPORTSMAN to hunt deer with a 40cal.               

Will a 40cal kill a deer?     
Sometimes.                           

Is it possible to kill a deer with a Daisy BB gun ?   
Yes.             

 ...  Does that make it right?
                                                        
Not no, but NO !             

*****************

We have been experimenting with bullets for hundreds of years.                                      

I have been personally testing them for well over 50 years.
I have seen rabbits killed with a single pellet and men killed with tiny cuts.
I have also seen deer ... and men ... fight with dangling arms and fractured skulls; and even run on shattered legs and blown out lungs.
                                                               
*************

Over my lifetime as a Deputy Sheriff and a Military Police Officer, I can assure you that ...
cops and soldiers carry pistols ... when we aren't expecting trouble ... or as a backup to our primary weapon.   
If we see trouble coming, we grab rifles, shotguns, grenades, mortars, howitzers, tanks, planes, ... and trains.   

Confronted with a charging drug crazed speed freak or his Rottweiler,         
at close range,
we would prefer a 12 guage "riot gun", a broadsword, a cutlass, or ... a baseball bat.

Once you get him stopped,  .... use your 40cal pistol for the "coupe de gras" .                      

A baseball bat is more likely to save your leg from a Rottweiler.

*************

In spite of all of the hoopla about kinetic energy, hydrostatic shock, primary and secondary wound channels, permanent and temporary cavitation channels, etc., etc.     
                                                                                           
the only thing that we are absolutely certain of is that:

massive rapid blood loss kills any living thing;               
[we have no conclusive evidence on Zombies, mummies, vampires, and / or werewolves]
                                                             
and ...

bone crushing penetration makes it very difficult for the afflicted critter to catch and kill you.   

Anything else is speculation, theory, and ... the great stuff that sells, magazines, guns, bullets, ... and beer.


                                                      

[Yes, 357_SIG]

CLARIFICATION:

It is quite simply WRONG for a SPORTSMAN to hunt deer with a:

standard concealed carry / "duty gun" 40cal. pistol.

For my Choctaw [native American Indian] Aunt Ruth
[who could have crept up and slipped the muzzle in a surprised buck's ear];

or some really good hunter with a custom hand cannon in 40cal.;
 .... that is a different matter, entirely.

[Scibaer]

kinetic energy, hydrostatic shock,  and wound channels are hoopla and speculation ??
but arrows have some mystery "voodoo" that makes them something special ??
i will agree that massive blood lose, ( tissue trauma ) does kill and a .40 probably shouldnt be used to take game
but ballistics are hardly experimental, given we dont understand every aspect, but voodoo and magic bullets for werewolves dont really play into it,
the .40 may or may not be an adequate for personal protection, and more then likely not any good for taking whitetail deer or any animal of that size, but what is written in gun mags is clearly for the average consumer, and not meant to be a scientific paper explaining ballistics.
 

[Yes, 357_SIG]

Who is going to buy the next round [beer here!] ?
                                                                                                              

It finally stopped raining, so I need more incentive to poke fun at sacred cows and explore the boundaries of common sense ... and decorum.

We all benefit from and [most of us] appreciate all of the research and hard work on: kinetic energy, hydrostatic shock, primary and secondary wound channels, permanent and temporary cavitation channels, etc., etc.
I have been captivated by and an ardent student of physics since adolescence.
Many [too many?] hours of my young adulthood were spent at the loading bench, ... pursuing "perfection"; or at least, cartridges that worked well.

I love gun mags and books, and devour all that I can.
Even better, the classic works of the great pioneers are not only informative but also enlightening and entertaining.
They provide such marvelous insight into a wonderful world that most of us are too young to have experienced.
Keith, Ruark, McGivern, Gaylord, Jordan, O'Connor, Applegate, Buckingham, Cooper, Gresham, Bianchi,  ... and a hundred others whose names escape my addled memory.
These giants are as much a part of my life as my friends and relatives.
They taught me far more about what is to be a Gentleman than all of the "professors" that I encountered in all of those years of college.


It is important to study all of the research and to learn from all of the great teachers.
At some point in time, we all come to know that the real magic is in the operator ... not the handgun.
Most handguns are really pretty anemic, at least compared to shotguns and rifles.
The critical element is good [and multiple] shot [bullet] placement.


Obviously what makes a good arrowhead so effective is that it causes such massive and extensive damage to the circulatory [blood supply] system.

Until we can find the magic hammer of Thor, or at least master brain stem shots;
we pretty much keep depending upon bullets to emulate razorheads ... to cause massive and extensive damage to the circulatory [blood supply] system.

Hemorrhage ... it's a dirty word ... unless lives ... [or food] depend upon it.

 

[blhof]

If you can shoot a quarter at 50 yds. from a standing position on a windy day with several rounds in that size area, then yes, you could successfully hunt deer with a .40. I prefer a .50 in b/p and 3030 or 357max for general hunting with a pistol.

[SHOOTALL]

If you can shoot a quarter at 50 yds. from a standing position on a windy day with several rounds in that size area, then yes, you could successfully hunt deer with a .40. I prefer a .50 in b/p and 3030 or 357max for general hunting with a pistol.

I would like to see that with .50 in b/p , 30-30 or 357 max.

[Yes, 357_SIG]

Elmer Keith:

... Hell, I was there !

                                                                                                                                  

[blhof]

With the .50, 3030 or 357Max you can go to pie plate size area at hand hold reasonable distance, but with the lower velocity of the .40, you need to be a much better shot to do the same job as the others.  My usual practice targets are pie plates at 25, 50, and 75yds in prep for deer season, with bipod I extend to 100 and 125yds.

[Lloyd Smale]

heres my take on it. Its ballistics are about identical to a 3840 and lots of deer went to heaven at the far end of a 3840. I think its very comparable to a 357. If loaded to the max with a 180 grain hardcast flat nose bullet ballistics are very simular to a 357 and i wouldnt bet on any deer walking away from a proper hit. Problem is if you have to ask your probably not experienced enough to use one. theres little room for error in any handgun hunting proposistion. You need to surgicaly place bullets and know your limits. If using one id pass on anything out past 50 yards for sure. Its not a 44 mag and 100 yard shots wouldnt be humane.

[sixshot]

  +1

Dick

[SHOOTALL]

With the .50, 3030 or 357Max you can go to pie plate size area at hand hold reasonable distance, but with the lower velocity of the .40, you need to be a much better shot to do the same job as the others.  My usual practice targets are pie plates at 25, 50, and 75yds in prep for deer season, with bipod I extend to 100 and 125yds.

Not doubt skill is required but a 9 inch pie plate is many times + bigger than a quater !

[Spirithawk]

Ya know? You can kill a deer with a sharp stick but there are much easier and better ways. Same for a .40 cal.

[Scibaer]

i have to believe its the platform more then the bullet itself, if there is a drawback to taking a whitetail with a .40
a 165, 180 or 200 grain bullet moving at close to 1000 fps placed well should dispatch a deer just fine.
that bullet being fired from a 3 or 3 3/4 barrel with short radius fixed sights is another matter

[SHOOTALL]

Ya know? You can kill a deer with a sharp stick but there are much easier and better ways. Same for a .40 cal.

YEP ! 

[Lloyd Smale]

personaly id feel better armed with a .40 using top end loads with 200 or 220 grain flat nose cast bullets then any 357 factory load and 357s have killed lots of deer.

[Yes, 357_SIG]

OK           .

40 cal x 180 grain at 2000 fps ...