Using cardboard wads in lieu of metal gas checks?

[hansg/Ups]

Can cardboard wads be used in lieu of metal gas checks[to limit/avoid leading] for smokeless powder rifle and handgun loads in: 45/70, 38/55, 30/30, 308Win, 358Win, 45lc,44Mag, 357Mag?
I'll be using water chilled straight wheel weights or pure Pb.
Thanks.

[stimpylu32]

I've had some luck using them in strait walled cases like the 45 LC and 45/70 with full case's of slow burning smokeless or Black powder .

The problem with less than full case's or bottle necked cartridges is that theres nothing to keep them in place , were as a GC is crimped on to hold them .

stimpy

[streak]

How about a little dab of glue??

[Castaway]

On my full-house loads in 45 Colt I use a waxed cardboard wad (from milk carton).  Cut my group size in half when I started.

[Dezynco]

I guess the only way you could tell would be to load a few up with a powder that fills the case to the point of compression.  Shoot them into a stack of newspapers or a clay bank and see it the base is melted.  Of course is the base of the bullet is melted, you'll be scrubbing the lead out of the barrel.

The Black Powder Cartridge folks use a cardboard or fiber wad to keep the greasy bullet lube from contaminating the powder.  I don't know how well the wads will work as a gas check??  Could be useful to know, gas checks are getting to be high priced lately!

[steg]

I'm guessing that the cardboard would be directly against the base of the bullet, as opposed to an over-powder card. Do you think a sligtly oversize card would more or less guarantee the wad staying in place against the bullet?

[Castaway]

Only use a 100% load.  You don't want to have an over powder wad but butt against the base of the bullet.

[stimpylu32]

How about a little dab of glue??

A couple problems I see with this is that the glue and wad will increase the weight of the bullet for one and there is no way to tell if it stays in place , having one fall off and lodge in the case could case a bad pressure spike . 

stimpy

[Lloyd Smale]

never had much luck with it myself.

[steg]

I think I'm gonna pass on trying this one out................steg

[Larry Gibson]

To easy to make your own GCs that stay on the base of the bullet to fool with it.

Larry Gibson

[gypsyman]

If you break the cost down, and lets say your paying $30 for a 1000 gas checks, same for primers, your looking at .06 per bullet, powder, lets say another .04 to .10 for powder, even on the high side,.16 per bullet. Don't count your time or labor, 'cause your doing this for fun, that's $8 per box. Lets round it up, and were looking at $10 a box. Still alot cheaper than paying $30+ a box for factory. And alot cheaper than $50 and up for green fees for a round of golf.
I work to hard to not owe myself a bit of fun. And, that's cheap fun compared to other things I could do. I'll stick to gas checks, or just finding a plain base to shoot. gypsyman

[COR]

There was an article in Handloader Magazine concerning just this topic.  It was within the last year.  I'll look it up when I get home.  They used milk jug plastic also and it worked pretty well.

[nicholst55]

There was an article in Handloader Magazine concerning just this topic.  It was within the last year.  I'll look it up when I get home.  They used milk jug plastic also and it worked pretty well.

'Milk jug plastic' is Low-Density Polyethylene, or LDPE; many highly successful BPCR shooters swear by wads made from this material, as opposed to card or fiber wads.  I have no idea how it works with smokeless.  You can buy the wad material (and pre-punched wads) from Buffalo Arms Company, Shiloh Sharps, and others; a local plastics distributor may handle it, also.

[Richard P]

The metal gc's help (in theory) in two ways. One, they provide a harder metal for the rifling to grip, and two, they try to inhibit or seal the bore. Sealing the bore helps prevent hot gas from slipping past the bullet and cutting metal from the sides. We place lube in the grooves to aid in this seal and to coat the bore for the next shot. I'm not sure we can apply enough heat to the bullet base to cause melting.
   It's difficult to separate the actions and results. If we could maintain the barrel at a cool temperature for each shot-----wouldnt that show up during cold weather shooting ?  For those who shoot a lot in really cold temps----how many shots does it take to get a hot barrel?  Again, it depends on how much powder is being burned per shot.
    Still, a good substitute for metal gc's would be good.  Dont the guys with black powder have bullets with plastic belts ?  Dont they work ok ?  Is the technique transferrable to our bullets ?  rp

[tacklebury]

You might consider putting a WonderWad under the bullet or a grease cookie as Junior Doughty's 's article on black powder cartridges goes into much better than I can. 

[goofyoldfart]

I have used meat trays from the supermarket and cut divots out then using a set of punches. I use one to push the powder up against the primer and then just enough to fill any air space between it and the bullet. use a punch that is bigger than the case by a about 20 thou--it compresses. been doing this in ONLY straight wall cases. 38, 357,44's and 45's. been doing since 1976 (give or take a yr) when I read about it in an article in the AmericanHandgunner in an article by a NASA scientist who also shot pistol and had ran out of gas checks. He was in ablations dept. (heat shielding) and got to looking around the house for something to use when he saw the meat trays and tried them. They work.  A plain base bullet in a 357 (160 gr.) fired at approx. 1500 fps. and NO leading. I have been doing it since then and don't use gas checks on straight wall cases. Use a meat tray to slap 'em and get 'em ready to put on the meat tray.   God Bless to all.