Indian Idolization?

[Dand]

Very interesting discussion and I applaud all for staying on the high road.  I suspect bearmgc's comment comes very close to the best answer to the OP question for many folks. 

I'm reading this to learn, as an adoptive father of 2 Alaskan Native boys living in a large Alaskan village with a 50/50 population of Ak Native and all others (I think). I want my boys to be proud and knowledgeable of their heritage while capable of taking care of themselves in today's world. I take them hunting and fishing, berry picking, to Native Dances and all possible local functions, to museums and displays in the larger towns when possible. We have read a number of books with Native stories and legends. But so far they refuse to go to culture camp (a daily thing for a few weeks each summer) or participate in Native Youth Olympics or dance opportunities. WE also encourage them to do their best in school. I hope by just living where we do, they pick up a sense of what it means to be a modern Native.  But at times I feel like we're just nibbling around the edges.  I fear my boys could end up pretty confused as they get a bit older. I don't want them pigeon-holed or boxed in, or confused; just proud to be who they are and hopefully able to choose what they do and where they do it.

Alaska doesn't have reservations but we have many (all?) of the problems in our villages that mirror those on the Rez. My sons are so far mostly unaware of this as our economic situation is reasonably comfortable. I hope my sons will eventually be able to empathize and have compassion and understanding of some of the problems I hope they can avoid getting sucked into those problems inadvertently or in a misguided effort to more closely identify with some of our community members.

From growing up in Alaska myself, living in several different villages & cities, visiting many more, having Native friends, even a couple girlfriends long ago, I believe being a modern Native and having Native Pride is a highly individual thing. Its one of the beautiful things about this country, that hopefully Native Americans are and feel free enough to take a wide variety of paths from the deeply traditional to that of a cosmopolitan world citizen - and to be comfortable with the role chosen.

So, a long winded explanation of my perspective while hoping this thread continues that I might gain more insight on how to encourage my 2 sons.

[Swampman]

There are no full blooded people of any sort in North America.  The term is constantly misused.  It's doubtful that any are more than 1/2 blood.

[Dee]

There are no full blooded people of any sort in North America.  The term is constantly misused.  It's doubtful that any are more than 1/2 blood.

You've made this statement on another thread Swampy. Now your baiting AGAIN, tryin to get it started here. You need to change bait.


As far as romanticizing the American Indian, I think much of what bearmgc says is true. The American Cowboy has been responsible for hundreds of movies, and western heroes, while the era lasted less than 40 years. It is painted into something SIMULAR of what it was but, not necessarily ACTUAL.

I think much of my Cherokee heritage and customs are built on SPECULATION as, much of it was lost in the FORCED MOVES, such as the "Trail of Tears" and FORCED EDUCATION at places such as "Carlisle" thru generations of governmental FORCED programs.

[Swampman]

If you read some you'll find that rampant cohabitation/marriage started in the 1500s and continues to this day.  Do you really think that it's possible that any of us are "full blood" or that we could even know it if we were?

[beerbelly]

I am not particularly proud of the Indians. I hear them crying and moaning about their lot in life. I think they like the blacks since about 1960 have become dependant on the government dole! There are no laws any longer to keep them on the reservation.
 There is how ever the government dole.
   They are free to leave the reservation and compete in life with the rest of us. As far as all this native blood most whites say they have, it is just plane BS  for the most part.
 Some of my own family say we have creek blood, I can find no evidence of that,  I have looked. Someone started that story and it took root, but as far as I can tell that is all it is a story.
   When the white man came here they were stone age  savage's. The two cultures were bound to collide, and the more primitive one to lose!
                                         Beerbelly

[TheCoachZed]

I hope this doesn't get me in trouble. (My wife is part Metis, and I have lots of part Indian friends, including my brother-in-law and good hunting buddy, so I have nothing racial against them. The only racial culture that really irritates me is the Irish mindset that glorifies drunkenness . . . and I'm part Irish so that shouldn't get me in trouble either  )

BUT

Peoples and nations simply get put up or put down depending how they honour God. That doesn't mean their oppressers are God-honouring - that's pretty clear in the OT. I'm not suggesting that the white man of the 1600s and 1700s who displaced the native was any more God-fearing than a Mohican spiritist - I'm just saying that the spiritist of that time was judged for his centuries of rejection of God, and guess what? Now all us descendants of the white man are being judged for ours!

Not all whites were racist murderers, either. Look at Roger Williams, who founded Rhode Island. The real Christian white men often bought their land from the Indians and were careful to keep good relations. Hypocritical Puritan governments, however, simply saw a quick profit.

Indians in the US really did get screwed, though, far worse than Indians up here in Canada (except for the Mohawks and their royal shafting after the War of 1812). The Cherokee especially got handled badly.

But you know what? I'm part English, Irish, Scottish, Czech, and Ukranian. My English ancestors were mistreated by and lost their idyllic lifestyle to the French after the Battle of Hastings. The Irish and the Scottish ancestors were oppressed by the English and the Vikings for centuries, and got screwed out of their rights and lifestyle by greedy nobles and landowners. The Czechs were sold down the river twice in the 20th century. first to the Germans and then to the Russians , by Western Democracy, and the Ukranians have been raped and pillaged by basically everyone since the beginning of time. Both my Czech and Ukranian ancestors had a choice between enlisting in and serving their oppressor's armies, or leaving - and they left their homes.

But, I don't expect to go back there and demand to retain my historical, native lifestyle. I don't expect to go to the outskirts of Edinburgh and start potting deer at night with a rifle and flashlight, or poaching salmon with a net. It boggles my mind that the natives around here are granted those rights, though. I don't blame them for taking advantage of what they can get - I blame our government for not treating people equally.

Regarding the reserves - I've only driven through a few MicMac reserves, and yes, they are truly miserable. But, every single one of those people has the right to get up, get a job, and get out. I don't blame them for staying on the government dole - mankind everywhere is inherantly lazy and if I had the opportunity, or any other white man, I suspect we'd do the same. But they shouldn't whine about it. Indiginous people everywhere, from Scotland to Ireland to England to the Czech Republic to the Ukraine, have had their idyllic lifestyles interrupted at some point by invaders. It's sad how men treat each other, but we can't go back to the way things were. Be proud of your culture, but don't blame your problems on other people. Learn to take care of yourself, no matter what the circumstances. I think that's something that any of us, no matter what our heritage, can be proud of.

And again, just to be clear - natives/Indians are completely cool with me. I've never met one yet that I wasn't friends with, on some level.

[turk762]

Just my 2 cents but, I believe that the natives also claimed territories and fought one another (some brutally) to keep them. The fact of the matter is that another new white tribe (for all the natives knew) that were superior in technology, fighting techniques, (debatable), and numbers took the territories just like natives have done to one another for thousands of years.

 Is taking this land right? that is debatable but it is human nature and it is what people have been doing since existence.

Treaties? I believe it is wrong to promise anyone something and not follow thru. but what kind of treaties did the natives offer and uphold to one another and did they all follow thru (we may never know).

Our gov. promises us things still today and dont follow thru, so I believe we can all say, we are all victims of this and know how it feels. Just like what they did with the native, the gov. get what they want and leave us high and dry.

I believe that people idolize natives now because, you think most tribes live like you see in the movies, peaceful, clean, humble, existence, I dont think this is necessary the way they truly were.   
 We have reservations near us and they anything but clean, peaceful, or humble. Gov. comes in and build them new homes and the trash them. One cut a hole in his wall (1-2 year old home) to drive his car inside to work on it (drunk).

As a matter of fact, I am a first responder in our community and I went to a drug overdose (downed his bottle of prescriptions in a drunken rage) call at a local natives (neighbor) they were humble but that was it.

I dont like the fact that a few races out there want to blame the evil whitey for keeping them down, we all have stumbling blocks in life, some pick them by their bootstraps and move on, others sit on their butts look around for someone to blame for their falling.

[myronman3]

i dont know how you can say this  

I don't think Spirithawk or I ever committed any atrocities on anyone.   I didn't have alot of control over what my ancestors did 130 years ago and I don't think he did either.

and then this.....
 

I have a bit of trouble with the annihilation of the bison.   Here God set forth a never ending supply of bison for us to dine on, that might last from the beginning of time to the end of time, and we just wasted it.  We're going to have to do pennance for that.

 in the same post.   i have never killed a single bison.  how am i to answer for that?  this is the kind of thinking that enables some blacks to hate whites.   i never owned a slave, or discriminated against anyone over their skin color.   come on, jnc, you are smarter than that.  

If you read some you'll find that rampant cohabitation/marriage started in the 1500s and continues to this day.  Do you really think that it's possible that any of us are "full blood" or that we could even know it if we were?

 yes, i do.  and i'll ask again...  who made you the grand poopbah of turdville?   your arrogance in thinking you have the definitive answers to questions only God knows the answers to makes me want to puke and also shows you to be a foolish man.  it erases any bit of crediblity you ever had.   i wish there was a puking smiley.  

[RB1235]

 I am from AL. I own a store in Cherokee SC. I have heard countless times, I am 1/10 of whatever Native American. The people generally have no distinguishing characteristics of an Indian. Indians never say Native American unless addressing a group of tourists. To each other they are Indians, Cherokees or Cherokee Indians. Whites are always making it a point to say Native American. Even in these posts some of the folks are putting Indian as "Indian". As to say  I am putting it in italics to show this is what others call them. There is nothing bad about calling an Indian an Indian. Christopher Columbus was a bit off from his mark. A blunder that has stuck for centuries. Recent PC has prompted the shift from Indian.

It just puzzles me as to why so many folks want to claim Indian heritage, yet they have no interest in their other heritage. Perhaps it is the romanticizing some of you have referred to. The Eastern Cherokee are not all inclusive and I realize some Indians may call themselves Native Americans. I just wonder for the whites is it just more mystique to refer to themselves as Native Americans? Or perhaps to legitimize themselves? Everyone born in America is native. Sorry I just got back from Cherokee. It just takes me awhile to wind down from all the "pale faced Kimosabes". 

[turk762]

I think people want to claim Native heritage, because they want to belong to something. The American family has become fractionalized, members separated by miles and old hurts, differences of opinions, and growing pains. Its not that the Native Culture has such a draw to people, as much as it is visible. Reality though is that the Native culture, like ANY other community has its problems, and sentimentalizing on its good aspects, only makes its problems worse, because they are not dealt with. I agree that there are both good and bad people everywhere. But bottom line, every human being wants to belong, and the search for a family, a group, a religious affliation is evidence of the loneliness, the alienation of people, that is so pervasive today. Additionally, many people do not know their family history, something that our ancestors deemed precious as a "pedigree." With the blended families of today, single parent households, and dysfunctional parents, many children have no idea where they came from, beyond a grandmother, or maybe not even that.

Well said. Rather than pat ourselves on the back, while anouncing what a good person we are, is it not better to strive to make a better life for our kind? I may not always exspress myself as clearly as I'd like but bottom line that is what matters to me. The past can't be changed but the future, not only can, it sorely needs to. Anyone happy with the way things are, try spending a week on a reservation such as Pine Ridge or Rosebud. Particularly in the Winter. Then come back and tell me how good things were. How you're happy with the way things are now. The same can be said for your own Ghettos. I'm sorry, but with "Indians" when one had food, everyone ate. When one had shelter, everyone did. To me that was a much better way of life. Of course you are free to disagree. I'm a disabled Vietnam Vet, and I'll tell you now that I'll take offense with anyone who questions my patriotism. But I didn't serve my Country so my people could laquish in poverty either. And please lets not confuse honest pride with idolization.

No offense and not trying to pick a fight,  but this sounds like you are proposing a better welfare system for the natives, or at least this is how the libs propose something they want. I feel if I did live on a rez. I would at least clean my part of it, so I could live better. Its not like the white man sent natives to live at the city dumps, not always the best piece of lands, but not a dump.  

When one had food they all had food, when one had shelter they all had shelter, I agree this is a good way of life that is slipping away in natives as well as whites, but can still be found in our smaller close knit communities.

I am a self employed construction worker that has a Criminal Justice degree with Law Enforcement experience (2 yrs part time), but choose to go back into construction because 1: I can make more money 2: construction work was more readily available, and my certification for LE expired. This is a chose I made and now that construction is almost at a stand still,  I sit twiddling my thumbs wondering what happened? Did I bring construction to a stand still? NO.  Did I save enough to make it threw the hard times? NO (I was only working for a year before it died) Is my family suffering because of my chooses? YES. (financially and emotionally)

I have been waiting (sarcastically) for someone  to come and help me, mister Obama?, Mister Senater? Welfare?, but I dont see the light at the end of the tunnal. Guess who it is up to? ME!!!
I have to get up off my butt, make another decision (hopefully the right one) and get myself and family out of this mess.

This is what you need to teach your native bros and sisters if you want them to succeed. This is where you will eventually get rewarded. Not sitting looking for someone to do it for you (you may be waiting for a while).
We can try to teach them but we are the outsiders (whitey), I believe it is up to those on the inside to show them the way.

[bearmgc]

That is very true but it's just as true that if you don't learn from the past you are doomed to repeat it.   Now you I can undestand and talk to.   As I said though, want a reality check? Try a week on a rez.

I spend at least 3 days a week EVERY week on the Rez. That's 152 days minimum a year. That's more than 1/3 of my life every year I spend on the Reservation. I dearly love and value the Reservation.  I didn't just fall off the pony...

If young Natives can't find a job, why not? If they don't have the necessary skills or education, why not? Programs exist to educate, then place them in a job training position. But the old adage, you can lead a pony to water but you can't make him drink applies. Casinos on the Rez bring in big money. Most Casinos were meant to bring in money from vacationers, out of towners, but where does at least 50% of their revenue come from? Members of the Rez, many who leave their young children at home and spend the entire night at the Casino. Then those who have jobs to go to, call in sick, or don't even do that, because they were up all night, and are too tired to work in the morning.
Recent considerations and proposals have been made to hold all dividends going to members under 25, and put the dividend into an account, that they can claim at age 25. Why? Because, there is no motivation to get job skills, if they are getting money every month from dividends. The Rez has many jobs, but must hire from outside to fill those jobs.

The culture of secrecy on the Rez destroys members' sense of safety and morale. Native on Native crime has dramatically increased, and Law Enforcement from other Tribes and Reservations has to be brought in to handle crime. Why ? The culture of secrecy, and the attitude of putting on a good face to the outside. I didn't want to go into this, but I have eyes to see, and the attitude of victimization is a piss poor excuse for not succeeding. So I speak the truth, and pray every day that more people will open their eyes, and begin to do what's necessary to save Native Communities. Talk talk talk, but get up in the morning, feed your dog and your kids, go to work, and make sure your kids understand the importance of education and personal responsibility. That means you have to spend time with them. The best way to teach children is by example. Now doesn't this mirror other non-Native communities? Yes, because its a multi-system problem, not just a Native problem.

[jcn59]

Myronman, It's the same for the passenger pigeon & other edibles.  Pennance is to God, not man.  It's a Catholic thing.  Now go say three "Hail Marys" and two "Our Fathers" and you will be forgiven.  Light some candles too.   Couple bucks each.

I live within 70 miles of three reservations & many whites deny their native ancestry.  There's also lots people claiming to be "Indians" who are on the tribal roles with just a small part of their ancestry Native.   Many have been raised white to a great degree.  The people who signed the treaties are gone.

Lots of racial predjudice on both sides.  I don't see any "Idolization" here except from the tourists, maybe.

[lakota]

To many it's the disillusionment with the modern world. Take a good look around you at what civilization and progress has given us and you'll soon realise we've lost more than has been gained.

This statement about sums it up for me.

[myronman3]

i used to work on the lco rez.   boy i have some stories from that.   
 
  and, as a side note,  i dont  "hail mary" anything.   no where does it say she is suppose to be a vessel for prayer to God;  just another thing the catlicks got wrong. 

[bearmgc]

To many it's the disillusionment with the modern world. Take a good look around you at what civilization and progress has given us and you'll soon realise we've lost more than has been gained.

This statement about sums it up for me.

There is also much disillusionment on the Reservation. Many new programs are being set up to address alcohol and drug addiction. Law enforcement from other tribes have to come in to bust up drug dealing rings. The murders and rapes of young teenage girls, by their OWN male relatives and friends, highlighted how bad the drug and alcohol problem is. Some Native men were saying that the rapes and murders were being commited by white men. Wow, eyes were opened, if only for a short while, when the truth came out.
Romanticizing doesn't solve anything.
But Native communities can roll up their sleeves, and put their hearts into revitalizing their communities. They can show the rest of America how to redeem theirs and their childrens' lives for the future They can become like beacons in the night, showing the path to the rest of the USA.

[myronman3]

which is why guys like spirithawk, you, and me are so vitally important.   and to be fair, that can be said about any community;  whether it be the black inner city ghettos, the white trailer trash parks, the hispanic barrio, or the rez.   
   we all face adversity, and whether we let it beat us or if we beat it is entirely up to us.  i will say that on the reservations i have been to, they have more opportunity available to them than i ever had available to me.   and i could qualify for benefits if i wanted to, but that would go against my beliefs.  if i can make it, anyone can.  everyone in america has the same doors open to them that i had open to me.  it all boils down to personal choice in the end.    that being said, a positive role model in your community can make a world of difference to a kid trying to figure it all out. 
   if you are being that role model to someone, keep up the great work.  if not, get off your butt and make a difference in some kids life.    idolize that.   

[jcn59]

"They can become like beacons in the night, showing the path to the rest of the USA."

I think they have about fifty years of "self determination" since the BIA bailed on them.  Moses was only lost for forty.   Where is their beacon?   Heck, where is anyone's beacon? 

[nw_hunter]

"They can become like beacons in the night, showing the path to the rest of the USA."

I think they have about fifty years of "self determination" since the BIA bailed on them.  Moses was only lost for forty.   Where is their beacon?   Heck, where is anyone's beacon? 

"HEY" I resemble that remark! I have beacon................OOPs! The wife said we just have sausage and ham.

[jcn59]

Yah!  What's more 'merican than beacon and iggs?  Sasage 'n biskits?  Grits?

[MGMorden]

Even in these posts some of the folks are putting Indian as "Indian". As to say  I am putting it in italics to show this is what others call them. There is nothing bad about calling an Indian an Indian. Christopher Columbus was a bit off from his mark. A blunder that has stuck for centuries. Recent PC has prompted the shift from Indian.

Not just PC, so much as it is the rising prominence of India.  I work in the technology sector, and I deal with Indians far more often than I deal with Native Americans, since India has become quite prominent in the IT/programming world lately.

Rather than when I speak of an Indian having to say "I work with a guy named Anooj.  He's Indian - like, from the country India not like 'cowboys and indians'.", it's just easier to call the INDIANS Indians and the people from over here Native Americans (it's a shame the mistake was ever made. If the people had been given a unique non-ambiguous name to begin with it wouldn't even be an issue).

The name only stuck because people in the colonial era simply had virtually no contact or cares towards the people actually in India.  If you said Indian, there was no question as to which group you were talking about.  That hasn't been the case for several decades now.

I do find the "genericizing" (don't think that's a word, but still ) of white heritage odd though.  Some people think that if they're 1/4 black, then they're black.  Or 1/4 native american, then you're native american.  It's as if all "whiteness" is erased by any trace of anything else.  I found it quite amusing that my uncle was ranting one day.  He's 1/8th Native American (which means technically I'm part too, but I look so much like a stereo-typical "white boy" that I can't tell anybody that with a straight face).  Anyways, he was complaining one day about how "This was OUR land!  And THEY took it from US!!!".  Just found it incredibly odd and had to point out to him that he's 7 times more white than native.  If you fall to the majority of your heritage, we were the ones taking, not being taken from.

[Spirithawk]

Lets say you are German and proud you are German. Would you like it if I told everyone I met that you are Swedish or some other nationality? Each Nation has it's own name, as does it's people, and each has the right to be called by that name should they so wish. If you are uncaring enough to learn that name then does that therefore give you the right to call them by another and then go as far as to critisize them for asking you not? By what authoroty do you do this and claim it right?

Something to consider;

First you have Swamp professing to be 1/8 Cherokee, extorting how proud of the fact he is and in the same breath making remarks how all "Indians" must be reliant on Government checks and how it's impossible any could be full blood, and that the Cherokee ever had a canibal. All statements based in ignorance, void of fact and any evidence whatsoever. I think his true feelings keep peeking out rather evident. His sole knowledge seems based only on what he reads. I think we all know what has been said about doing that.

Then others make the same assumption that all "Indians" are poor, pathetic, and dependent on the Government.

You have us called everything from misguided, drunken, pathetic souls to noble savages.

You include us in such stereotypes as all Irish are drunks.

Let me ask each of you a few questions;
 Just when did the Creater cease to exist and and any one of you get apointed to his posistion?

Just how many of you know more than what you've seen on tv, on a movie screen or read in a book, or seen from afar from your comfy homes?

Who can tell me in detail the customs, traditions, ceremonies, religion, true history - including before the European invasion of any tribe or Nation. Who can tell me the problems faced by modern "Indians" in todays society. Who can tell me any of this without having to do like Swamp and look it up on line?

Bottom line, just what gives any of you the right to judge another of any race any where?

Do you know the biggest problem "Indians" had and still have with white religion? People are so quick to preach brotherly love, so quick to preach treat others as you would like to be treated, so quick to preach judge not lest you be judged yourself, so quick to preach peace and understanding, but we seldom see people practice what what they preach.

bearmgc is right on the money!

I'll end by sayng it not the quantom  of blood that makes you  "Indian" it's a way of life!

[billy_56081]

Spirithawk I was not calling you or any indian a "Noble Savage" I think you may want to do a little study on that terminology.

BTW I was born here in America I consider myself a native American.

[jcn59]

What is the BIA if it is not the Bureau of INDIAN affairs ?   Anishinabe?

I only read one book on the Lake Superior Chippewa, but I spent 6000 hours on the rez in the last 20 years.  Mostly with an old indian lady my age whom I worked with.   Does that count, Spirithawk?  It was beginning to sound like you were "generalizing" us po' white folk.

We're all different but mostly the same.  I don't want to see this thread degenerate into a contest to see who has it worse off.

[Spirithawk]

Didn't quote you by name saying you did guy. I'm saying that is the general mentality that prevails on one side and the poor pathetic "Indian" on the other end.

The BIA has long been corupt from the very begining. It is widely believed by historians that Custer was sent on his fatal mission because he spoke up about Grant's brother being involved in selling items and food meant to be issued on reservations and his stealing money meant to be payed according to provisions of the treaties. Yes, many left the reservations and went back to fighting. Under the same cercumstances, if it were you, wouldn't you have done the same rather than watch your family starve? If you really want an education about the BIA study the second Wounded Knee. One man was in charge of saying who got what among all Lakota. His friends and cohorts lived high on the hog while everyone else suffered and starved. Read about how many murders took place. If you disagreed with him you died. I don't have to read about it. I was there!

[MGMorden]

What is the BIA if it is not the Bureau of INDIAN affairs ?   Anishinabe?

That organization was started in 1824 - back when that name made sense (or at least, was less nonsensical).  If there were no other people called Indians then it wouldn't make a difference, but still using the name because of Columbus' 500 year old ignorance is just foolish.

Lets say your name is "Bob" and you have a brother "Timmy" who lives 1000 miles away.  Nobody around you knows him, but the neighbors got confused when you moved in and when you said you had a brother named "Timmy" they got confused and started calling YOU Timmy.  No big deal.  Timmy's not around and you know what everyone means.  Now, 40 years later, Timmy retires, decides to move next to his brother, and so he moves into the house next door.

Does it not make sense in light of the fact that the real Timmy is now next door to let people know that "No, this guy here, my brother, is Timmy.  I'm not Timmy, I'm Bob.".  Or do they just keep using the wrong name with people getting confused as to which person they mean every time it's spoken?

Native American makes sense for a people originally for America (much more than appyling the word "Indian" to a people no related to India in the slightest).  If a few huffy people want to get all righteous and go "But ahm native cuz I was bern here!" then we can go with another name.  "Indigenous American" or "Ethnic American" or even the names of the tribe to which one belongs (as it seems most prefer that anyways).

[jcn59]

The BIA is corrupt?  HeII everything the U.S. government does is corrupt........er...how are the tribal governments doing these days?

This thread is really on a roll.  I hope everyone is thick skinned enough to not take it personal.

[WylieKy]

To many it's the disillusionment with the modern world. Take a good look around you at what civilization and progress has given us and you'll soon realise we've lost more than has been gained.

Everyone over 30 raise your hand.  If you were Indian pre-1900 chances were that you would be dead, and for everyone over 40 even more so.

The Indian culture can be beautiful, romantic, horrifying, and barbaric.  Just like every other culture.  Disgusting atrocities were comitted on and by Indians.  Just like every other peoples.  The real question, is why is modern white culture so....anit-white? Black, hispanic, Asian, African (yes I listed it separate from black), Indian, ect.... is exotic while white is mundane.  Any minority that stands up for his race is a patriot and every white man who does the same is a racist.  We're all human. We're all falliable.  If everyone acknowledged that fact and worked to improve our world instead of playing the blame game and the IwishIwaza game it would be a huge step in the right direction.

[billy_56081]

I get a kick out of the folks that are one tiny fraction of indian blood claimind they are indian. So if I put ford rims on a Chevy does that make it a Ford? Heck there are probably just as many folks in this country that have Indian blood from some savage buck raping a white woman back in the day (as was very common place among captives) as there is from actual romantic interludes. The Noble Savage has to do with the silly folks nowadays who ROMANTICIZE about a culture from study and books.

There is one single race of human in the word. That is homo sapien sapien.

[Dee]

I am not particularly proud of the Indians. I hear them crying and moaning about their lot in life. I think they like the blacks since about 1960 have become dependant on the government dole! There are no laws any longer to keep them on the reservation.
 There is how ever the government dole.
   They are free to leave the reservation and compete in life with the rest of us. As far as all this native blood most whites say they have, it is just plane BS  for the most part.
 Some of my own family say we have creek blood, I can find no evidence of that,  I have looked. Someone started that story and it took root, but as far as I can tell that is all it is a story.
   When the white man came here they were stone age  savage's. The two cultures were bound to collide, and the more primitive one to lose!
                                         Beerbelly

Gosh beerbelly, I'm really shocked that you don't like Indians either. How about  billy goats, and Rhode Island Red roosters? What don't ya like about those two groups?

[S.S.]

Well I am a WHITE CHEROKEE  
My last relative of true blood heritage was my grandmother.
And here is the interesting part, the translation of her name was
"Up The Grove" a grove is a creek bottom so it really means "Up The Creek".
This explains a lot of how my life has been Destiny I guess...
She was an interesting and Firey little old gal. We lost her a couple of months
back, she was almost 100 yrs old. I think I am the only one in my family
with no physical indian features. I am white as a soda cracker! Yep,
I said CRACKER   Does that make me racist of myself !!! Boggles the mind
My dad always said not to shake the family tree too hard!
Never know what might fall out!!!!