And again...from the "religion of peace"...

[ironglow]

   Scripture speaking about Ishmael and his descendants;
 

  " and he shall be a wild man; his hand will be against every man,
  and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren."

                                                                                         (Gen 16:11)

    When he has no outsider nearby to fight with and kill;
   He turns against his own...

   http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100701/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan

[powderman]

UHHHH, IRONGLOW. Was that in the koran?? POWDERMAN.  

[nomosendero]

You can just feel the love!! 

[teamnelson]

TM7,

So that makes it okay for Muslims to brutalize their own? Should we not be outraged at all senseless violence, or just that committed by neo-zionists? And before we go too far afield, starting a thread on the poor customer service of Taurus does not automatically mean all other manufacturers of firearms are above reproach; I hope you would not accuse IG of similar motive simply because he posted about Muslims. What then should we do with violence in Islam?

[saddlebum]

Curiously, most of the killing in the world for the last 2000 years has been done primarily by so-called judaeo-christian forces and with extreme technological developement to do just that.
Quote:

Not so curious. Just more proof that God is on their side, if that is true. I wonder how many people were killed by the likes of Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Marx, Lenin, Chai, Castro and others in the name of Socialism or Communism. And how many people killed under the Muslim banner in the Middle East, Africa and Europe over the centuries. Most of the people that were killed by those groups were not killed in the typical context of a war either. They killed their own countrymen or tried to eliminate a whole race of people,(genocide). Mao was a nice guy, killing his own people by starvation. Saddam Hussein using chemical weapons on his own countrymen. Muslim genocide in Sudan for no apparent reason.......and on and on. There is no way to ever get a close head count on how many people Muslims have killed since there is so much internal killing in their respective countries. I don't recall any mention of rape being used as a tool of war by Judaeo-Christians either.
Yes I have to wonder if Judaeo-Christians have done most of the killing in the last 2000 years......I don't think so. If it is so it is only because we had to stop the others from killing millions more and because we have had the capability to end world wars thru force as necessary. Besides, Judaeo-Christians do not have a mandate in their teachings or belief system to kill other people. No incentive except to defend themselves and others INCLUDING some of the people in the other groups FROM the groups mentioned.

Note; Might try re-reading the NT. Especially Romans.

[powderman]

tm. None of your suppositions or statements  about ishmael are true or Biblical, not Gods Bible anyway. POWDERMAN.  

[BUGEYE]

All this killing by muslims  may be less about religion and more about drugs.  in their idle time, they sit around and chew QAT which affects them like meth.  It makes them so excited that they just gotta go kill someone.

[billy_56081]

What I find funny about old TM is that he tries to blame the killing on Jewish and Cristian nations to promote his biases. (No need for him to dispute this he has proven them over and over)


What he fails to understand because of his hate blindness, is all these wars we as Americans have fought and all the wars the Israelis have fought had nothing to do with religion but with us (good) verses them (evil) simple as that.

[powderman]

Notice in the chart that death/genociding of Natyive Americans is estimated to be as high as 115 million by some reports. Christian holocaust in Russia could go as high as 115 million when it was all done.



I didn't read it, as I rarely click on your links, and as usual, it has nothing to do with the subject we are discussing. Just more doublespeak to try and take the heat off your Godless friends. POWDERMAN.  

[teamnelson]

TM7, seriously trying to stick to the dialogue here. You state that you don't believe this may be Muslim on Muslim violence; it evidently does not make sense to you. Are you saying Muslims would never hurt their own? Are you implying all Muslims are devout, and Islam is peaceful? Are Muslims then above the human dilemma and thereby incapable of atrocity, even to a mosque? That would make them far more holy than the followers of every other religion on the globe. Would you use the same criteria if say a Catholic blew up a Protestant site?

[saddlebum]

Saddlebum...you can do the math on all the killing if you like by checking here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_disasters_by_death_toll
Notice in the chart that death/genociding of Natyive Americans is estimated to be as high as 115 million by some reports. Christian holocaust in Russia could go as high as 115 million when it was all done.
Quote:

No thanks! I prefer to get unbiased information not written and tweeked by Atheist with an agenda.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Examples_of_Bias_in_Wikipedia
                          (interesting read)

Besides, looking at the reason for any killing may be more profitable than just keeping count.

[powderman]

I'm sure moslems can be brutal and violent on each other over various disputes or clan disturbances; or even criminal agents when payed by outside criminal agents..


HEH. What a ridiculously stupid thing to say. Nobody has to pay the Godless ones to slaughter each other, they do it daily, and gleefully, blood is what they live for. The Godless ones kill more of their own than any other nation has. I'm sure al jazeera glosses over these things but they happen daily. The more blood they shed the better they like it, and they don't care whose it is. POWDERMAN.  

[saddlebum]

"....always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."
                                   2 Timothy 2:7-8

[teamnelson]

TM7, its just interesting to me that when someone here posts a link to an account of violence among Muslims, you're pat response is: oh yeah, well the judeo-christians are even worse, or its probably somebody else pulling the strings behind the scenes. Is it really so difficult for you to imagine Muslim on Muslim violence? I guess so. Perhaps some personal time spent over in those countries, amongst those peoples - not in uniform, just as a civilian as I did for several years - would help lift back the veil and reveal them for who they are. Violent, evil, born to sin, and full of hatred ... just like ever other human being alive. You don't have to train a Muslim baby to be selfish any more than an American, or Israeli baby. And most will never pick up their own tab, or have it picked up for them.

Who benefits from the bombing of a Mosque? The other tribal leaders, a family feud, a generations long struggle for predominance in a very tribal society ... yes, Muslims have no compunctions about attacking another Muslim's mosque. Particularly since many Mosques are the personal edifice of a wealthy leader, and usually staffed by that same persons no account brother; its a model well recorded in socio-anthropological studies dating as far back as we've studied. So if you want to hurt another family, its a likely target, not requiring nwo-zionist funding or training.

As for what I think of the clash of civilizations ... you evidently have no idea.

[ironglow]

 Does this illustrate something ?

  http://www.patriotscoalition.com/pages/dispatchPages/PalestinianKids.html

[powderman]

tm. You know that muslims murder more muslims than anybody else. I think the only part of that you disagree with is that they are killing their own, instead of Jews and Christians. That about it??? POWDERMAN.  

[teamnelson]

Tm7, once again you must have me confused with someone else. Never said Muslims are subhuman, not on a hate wagon, why I think we're in GWOT has never been posted anywhere. Muslims have been killing Muslims since the 7th century, long before I was even born - they admit it, it's in the Hadith and the Ummah. No you cannot rationally blame their violence on outside agitation.

As for the fallen nature of humankind, I believe the words of Christ when he confronted the Pharisees, it's not what you put into the body that defiled you, it's what comes out of the heart. It appears you follow the pharisaical teaching that man is defiled by his surrounding influences. Very Islamic as well. The Buddha agreed with Christ on that, must be an enlightened idea.

[Spirithawk]

Well, stop and think about it. Way too many wars have been fought in the name of someone's god. Everyone can't be right now can they? If so why not just anialate each other and be done with it? Personally I doubt God is real happy about man continually using him as an excuse for their greed and thirst for power. Muslims are taught to hate anyone not a Muslim. If you aren't a Muslim you're an infidel and they believe that gives them the right to kill you and drag your beheaded body through the streets. The biggest way to stir them up is to attack, even verbaly, their religion. And they do kill each other over things that seem crazy to us. It's just facts of life. now there may be some Muslims trying to change those things but as long as they believe in their religion, and their religion tells them to do so, the attrocities will continue.

As to what Team Nelson said about the nature of man, we Tsalagi (Cherokee) have something similar in a story passed from father to son;


An elder Tsalagi (Cherokee) was teaching his grandchildren about life. He said to them, "A fight is going on inside me... it is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One wolf represents fear, anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.The other stands for joy, peace, love, hope, sharing, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, friendship, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith."
"This same fight is going on inside you, and inside every other person, too", he added.
The Grandchildren thought about it for a minute and then one child asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"
The old Cherokee simply replied... "The one you feed."



Which wolf do you feed?


The point of this story is pretty evident. Look at how you feed your wolves and realize that you have the power at every moment to choose which one you feed......SH ^i^

[ironglow]

Spirithawk;
  I heard that story many years ago as an illustration given during a sermon...and it was correctly attributed a Cherokee chief or sachem. Must be because the preacher was a man who many Cherokees for ancestors. I thought it profound and loaded with common sense two and a half decades ago, and still hold respect for the original sagacious cheif from back in dim history..even though I don't know his name..

  

   As far as the news item which launched this thread;
  Where we find one faction of Islam attacking another faction of Islam, with a thirst for blood, I think it raises a valid question.
  While it is true that some people calling themselves Christians or Jews in centuries past have acted irrationally, shedding inocent blood without regard to persons...in fact with regard as to who they were and what they believe, that is a theme relegated to the dark ages and frowned upon almost universally now by Christians and Jews.
    The very irony of the story is that it is a contemporary, "today" dateline.
    
    If perchance the story read;

    "A contingent of religious Jews leaving Ashdod last evening, attacked and burned a rival synagog in Tel Aviv, killing 35 worshippers."

  Or if it read;
      "A group of Dothan, GA  Christians left an Assembly of God Church last evening and travelled to Valdosta , Ga..where they attacked and burned the local Presbyterian Church, resulting in the death of 35 parishoners engaged in worship."

   I do believe the world would be shocked..
  
   ...Not only that, but I firmly believe that such action would receive a firm, universal condemnation from all the other contributors in this thread, plus Christians & Jews everywhere. I very much doubt they would pursue any lame excuses as "paid by other factions", "stirred up by renegade preachers or rabbis", or even " the Dothan tribe has long had a blood-feud with the Valdosta tribe."
  Those kind of excuses don't cut it with those of even rudimentary civilization.
    The most obvious explanation is likely found in ..Genesis 16:11.

[powderman]

IRONGLOW, SPIRITHAWK. Well said, all true. Fact is, ishmaelites  murdering each other is so commonplace today that the world doesn't even blink an eye anymore. At least they are cleansing their own gene pool a bit. POWDERMAN.  

[powderman]

Specifically, the suicide bomber myth, killing one's own people, is another hoax perpetrated by our own crew of psychopaths. There is no moslem history of suicide bombing of innocents or mosque bombings to speak of.


HEH, since when????You can't change history. They are making more history every day, and killing each other every day.  Are you for real? I don't believe you even breathe the same air as most of the rest of us. What a ridiculous statement to make, even for you. You have eyes, but do not see, you have ears, but do not hear. POWDERMAN.  

[saddlebum]

                                     


2 Thessalonians Chapter 2, verses 10,11

[ironglow]

TM;
   Are you saying the multitude of suicide bombings done daily around the world are all the result of some kind of huge conspiracy which somehow commits these heinous acts and somehow blames innocent Muslim terrorists.  .....And nobody has ever unearthed this "truth".  

    If this is so, how do they (the conspiracy) manage to convince terrorist outfits such as Al Queda, Hamas or Hezbollah to call in the media and take credit for the murders committed by the "conspirators" ?

[powderman]

....I do know there is a moslem resistance to seek justice for Palestinians, and to expell zionist invaders from their lands who covet their resources and finances.


tm. Billy is right, you are a comedian. That is hilarious. Israel covets the Godless ones resources and finances??? What a laugh. WHAT RESOURCES AND FINANCES?? If they have these things why aren't your Godless friends feeding their own people? Osama just pledged ANOTHER $900 million, for what?? Let hamas feed them with their vast resources and finances, or let them go to egypt, the door is wide open. Theres no reason for them to be in Israel, as they are still squatters and trespassers. POWDERMAN. 

[powderman]

A lot of wasted bandwidth just to say, Godless ones good, Jews and Christians bad. POWDERMAN. 

[billy_56081]

TM how about we look at the whole world and tell the full story, not just put up a report that supports your biases?

[Spirithawk]

Argue all you want, but in my book, just one attack by anyone is one too many to ignore. If it was up to me the word would go out, " commit an act of terrorism, we will catch you, promptly convict you and then promptly execute you! End of story!

[powderman]

tm. HEH, once again when real facts don't suit your agenda you change the subject. The subject was Godless ones killing each other, remember??? As usual your stats do not apply to the subject at hand, which is muzzies killing muzzies. Try again, I'm sure it will be hilarious. Name another cult that is murdering their own people TODAY., not hundreds or thousands of years ago. POWDERMAN. 

[BBF]

Argue all you want, but in my book, just one attack by anyone is one too many to ignore. If it was up to me the word would go out, " commit an act of terrorism, we will catch you, promptly convict you and then promptly execute you! End of story!

Works for me as well with the addition of " Who paid you"??

[ironglow]

  Actually, I'm not directly accusing anybody of some of those things you mentioned, just suggesting we each use logic and reason..connect the dots, and see what fits.  'Nuff said...