Author Topic: WHAT IF? (Read 2122 times)

williamlayton · « **on:** July 04, 2010, 12:45:56 PM »

Let's set the scene.
You own 5000 acres in South Texas.
It has its problems from illegals crossing it.
There is evidence of vadalism.
You are on this land every day.

What would you carry for self protection?
How would you carry it/them?
Blessings

DennisB · « **Reply #1 on:** July 04, 2010, 02:38:43 PM »

Hmmm. If only I owned 5000 acres in South Texas!

I'd likely have my R-25 in the truck, its 20-rd magazine full of 308s. On my belt would be a Bisley Blackhawk, .45 Colt, worn whenever I'm on the pasture.
Wait a minute! That sounds like what I do already on my teeny 160 acre lease in north Texas. Ya just never know what you'll run across out there--

rockbilly · « **Reply #2 on:** July 04, 2010, 04:02:38 PM »

William, I am afraid this would be a very touchy situation, first the Texas law permits one to use deadly force to protect one’s self or property but the “legal eagles” of the current administration may look upon any aggression as a violation of the immigrant’s civil rights. I have several friends who own large places in the Big Bend area, all of them are confronted with the illegals and vandalism problem on almost a daily basis, to date I know of none who have been shot, but I do know one individual that picks them up, secures them with wire ties and hauls them to the Border Patrol Station between Alpine and Study Butte……one of the local law officers told him what he is doing hinges very closely to kidnapping but that they would not press the issue as long as the federal boys didn’t.

Now to address your question………..any high capacity large bore with several extra mags should be sufficient, of course you would also need a good shovel!!!!

spruce · « **Reply #3 on:** July 04, 2010, 04:29:53 PM »

S&W J-frame .38 w/bobbed or shrouded hammer in weak side front pocket.

High capacity 9mm, polymer frame in strong side hip high-ride holster (probably an M&P) w/one extra mag on my person.

In the vehicle, Rem 870 12 ga, 20" barrel w/bead sight, loaded with 00 buckshot, buttstock carrier with a couple extra buckshot and 3 slugs. Mini-14 or AR with 2 mags coupled together in the weapon and sporting a low power scope. Slings on both of these.

A high performance (I hate the term "tactical") small flashlight in a belt holster, a BIG BRIGHT flashlight in the vehicle.

As a firm believer in the KISS principle there would be no fancy weapon mounted lights, lasers, etc, etc.

Most importantly, a good, reliable vehicle to make a fast exit - as only a fool would go on the offensive against an unknown size/armed force by himself!

There's a lot of other options as far as equipment goes and if you feel confident in your choices I wouldn't argue - these are the ones I'm familiar with and have confidence in.

JeffDavis · « **Reply #4 on:** July 04, 2010, 05:15:39 PM »

Interesting variation on the "What If..." scenario William!

I would have the following:

Glock 26 in the Galco Royal Guard IWB with 12 round mag and one chambered. 2 Glock 17 mags with +2 extenders backing it up.
Remington 124 grain JHPs

In the vehicle, Glock 17L with same set up in mags and ammo except there would be 12 spares and 3 33 round mags.
Kel-Tec Sub 9 with Glock mag well

Mini-14 16" barrel in Hogue stock with 5 factory 20 round magazines and a compact Burris 3-9x40 scope.
Hornady 40 grain V-Max or Remington 45 grain JHP

Remington 1100 with 20" barrel, 8 round magazine tube, 6 round side saddle, 4 round Speed Feed pistol grip stock
loaded with Remington 2 3/4" 00 buck, 4 spares in the stock, 6 foster slugs in the side saddle.

Saiga 308 with the 10 round factory mag, 2 20 round Surefire mags, and 2 25 round Surefire mags. Side mounted
compact burris 3-9x40 scope with iron sights available.

medical bag, 3 days of food, cooler with 6 gallons water, spotlight, flashlight, entrenching tool, sleeping bag, firestarter, gascan,
100 rounds each of all calibers, spare batteries, cell phone and charger, cleaning kit, gun locker, axe and saw, knife, rope, flares,
Toyota Land Cruiser 4wd with CB radio.

May seem excessive, but a good scout is prepared, Got a lot of the items from the autobiography of Texas Ranger Joquin Jackson, who packed a LOT of
hardware and gear in the trunk of his car. He never knew where he might be going or what he might encounter, so he just stocked up on everything.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #5 on:** July 04, 2010, 06:44:18 PM »

I would do my best to sell it. Why on earth do you want to fight to enjoy your property. Me vs. both the US government and every Mexican with ambition enough to leave his mud hut? Life is too short, one day this crap will be resolved, in the mean time I have to go about on a war footing on my own place.

In the interest of playing along though. FN FAL select fire, with a folding stock, adapted to some sort of optic, Leupold prismatic would be interesting. On my person would be a P 226.

saddlebum · « **Reply #6 on:** July 04, 2010, 07:16:22 PM »

Quote from: JeffDavis on July 04, 2010, 05:15:39 PM

Interesting variation on the "What If..." scenario William!

I would have the following:

Glock 26 in the Galco Royal Guard IWB with 12 round mag and one chambered. 2 Glock 17 mags with +2 extenders backing it up.
Remington 124 grain JHPs

In the vehicle, Glock 17L with same set up in mags and ammo except there would be 12 spares and 3 33 round mags.
   Kel-Tec Sub 9 with Glock mag well

   Mini-14 16" barrel in Hogue stock with 5 factory 20 round magazines and a compact Burris 3-9x40 scope.
   Hornady 40 grain V-Max or Remington 45 grain JHP

   Remington 1100 with 20" barrel, 8 round magazine tube, 6 round side saddle, 4 round Speed Feed pistol grip stock
   loaded with Remington 2 3/4" 00 buck, 4 spares in the stock, 6 foster slugs in the side saddle.

   Saiga 308 with the 10 round factory mag, 2 20 round Surefire mags, and 2 25 round Surefire mags. Side mounted
   compact burris 3-9x40 scope with iron sights available.

medical bag, 3 days of food, cooler with 6 gallons water, spotlight, flashlight, entrenching tool, sleeping bag, firestarter, gascan,
100 rounds each of all calibers, spare batteries, cell phone and charger, cleaning kit, gun locker, axe and saw, knife, rope, flares,
Toyota Land Cruiser 4wd with CB radio.

May seem excessive, but a good scout is prepared, Got a lot of the items from the autobiography of Texas Ranger Joquin Jackson, who packed a LOT of
hardware and gear in the trunk of his car. He never knew where he might be going or what he might encounter, so he just stocked up on everything.

No offense, but with that list of stuff and no badge to go with it, the DOJ could make one heck of an example out of you if you wound up shootin someone. Stinking shame we have to worry about the lawyers just as much or more as we do the illegals. Heck they would probably brand you as a terrorist if you got pulled over for a traffic stop.
Since "Wild Bill" didn't mention anything about drug crazed dope smugglers with AKs, I'm assuming we are talking about your everyday swimmers looking for a handout or a job. Maybe some trouble too,"vandalism". I thought about this some and decided to just stay old school on this for a couple of different reasons.
When horseback I would carry my SAA .45 Colt, or 1911, Blackhawk .41mag or M-57, depending on my mood at the time. I have Mexican loop holsters for both of the .45s and the Blackhawk. A hip holster for the M-57 when I'm not wearing chaps. Nothing I know carries better than a levergun on a horse, so the Marlin 336 30-30 or the 1894 45 Colt, depending on my mood. Carried in a saddle scabbard.
The same would work fine for me in the pickup. I gotta funky Universal M1 carbine that rides in the truck alot too. My truck always has a little food and water in it and emergency stuff like first aid kit and so on.
Add a shotgun for in the house and the other guns to go with it.

williamlayton · « **Reply #7 on:** July 05, 2010, 01:25:21 AM »

All of you keep on leaving out the backhoe.

I am sure that there are many obsticles to this little thread. I am also sure that many face this delima every day.
It has been awhile since I roamed down there but I am familiar with rancers and farmers in this area. I do know that all are armed.
I would carry a shotgun, 30/30 and a semi-auto of some type.
Blessings

Mikey · « **Reply #8 on:** July 05, 2010, 01:38:54 AM »

Rockbilly - since when did those illegally in this country get to benefit from the civil rights of the citizens? I really have to laugh at that one, thanks. The notion that terrorists, illegals and foreign nationalists can benefit from the rights of the citizens of this nation is pure bull hockey. You might notice that notion comes up frequently but nobody yet has been strung up for violating the American civil rights of foreigners - it just doesn't exist. You can get all the legal vultures (the Eagle still has some stature in this country as long as the illegals flooding across our boders don't kill and eat them all) and aclu mops you want to scream civil rights, but the only people in thos country who can enjoy our civil rights are its citizens.

As for the leagl flotsam that would sue you for violating the 'rights' of someone who 'invaded' this country - put that backhoe or bulldozer to work and dig a hole deep enough for all of them.................. jmtcw...

WD45 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 05, 2010, 04:51:04 AM »

Well, I would carry a shotgun, a lever gun of some cal, a semi auto of some type and a single action wheelgun. Oh, I would leave the truck at the house and drive the backhoe around the ranch

FN in MT · « **Reply #10 on:** July 05, 2010, 09:35:02 AM »

I'd sell the land in Texas and move to either Wyoming or Montana. Life is too short to F with not only the damned illegals but the G as well. Sad times we live in.

But to play.... I'd carry one of the AR's or AK 74's in the vehicle. Some sort of hi-cap 9 on my belt...BHP or SIG226...possibly a .357 SIG 226/229. And be VERY aware of my surroundings and situation at all times.

FN in MT

rockbilly · « **Reply #11 on:** July 05, 2010, 09:43:20 AM »

Mikey, I don't know where you have been hiding, but that is "the law of the land." I know of two cases here in Texas where an on duty LEO was charged with and convicted for violating the civil rights of an illegal, I'm sure there are others.

You as a citizen HAVE NO RIGHTS TO DETAIN OR OTHERWISE QUESTION an illegal and can/will be held responsible for violating their civil rights if you do so.

Checks the facts my friend.

hornady · « **Reply #12 on:** July 05, 2010, 11:26:14 AM »

Can anyone kind of see a double standard here, New York Black Panthers with clubs at polling booth, not a problem for the US Attorney General, Man in Texas defending his property, is violating a criminal illegals civil rights..
I never thought you could make Janet Reno look good, But this guy is doing a good job of it.

Daman · « **Reply #13 on:** July 05, 2010, 12:21:42 PM »

My arsenal wouldn't change from my daily carry here in South Alabama. I carry a 4" 357 magnum revolver with lead SWC on my belt, an 870 20 gauge behind the seat with 3" #5's in it, and either a 30-30 or 22 mag Winchester.

I may be inclined to replace the lever gun with a Remington R25 in 7mm-08.

Daman

saddlebum · « **Reply #14 on:** July 05, 2010, 12:48:55 PM »

Quote from: rockbilly on July 05, 2010, 09:43:20 AM

Mikey, I don't know where you have been hiding, but that is "the law of the land." I know of two cases here in Texas where an on duty LEO was charged with and convicted for violating the civil rights of an illegal, I'm sure there are others.

You as a citizen HAVE NO RIGHTS TO DETAIN OR OTHERWISE QUESTION an illegal and can/will be held responsible for violating their civil rights if you do so.

Checks the facts my friend.

Don't they have trespassing laws in Texas? No rights for land owners? We are talking private property here and vandalism regardless of whether or not they are IAs. Not to mention personal safety on your own property.

Mikey · « **Reply #15 on:** July 05, 2010, 02:54:37 PM »

Dang! Am I standing corrected again?? This happened once before as I recall - bummer yet, I sense a double standard here. This might leave us in double jeopardy if they can trace the backhoe.................

williamlayton · « **Reply #16 on:** July 05, 2010, 11:08:01 PM »

Those little Bobcats trailer easy.
I understand the facts as RB states and the consternation shown by Mikey.
Is shooting detainment? Or is that the purpose of the backhoe?
At any rate the backhoe avoids paperwork.
This little thread WAS/IS an obvious adventure into play-like, but can be be a tool to teach and think about.
A weapon--any weapon--is a good thing in any state, these days. I really, from the results of my travels, do not know of a state that is devoid of this illegal problem and in most places has surpassed the problem stage too become an invasion.
Blessings

Mikey · « **Reply #17 on:** July 06, 2010, 01:45:31 AM »

I would consider armed intrusion across the international borders of the US to constitute either a armed intrusion or a armed invasion, depending on whether they just wanna come and have fun, or stay. Either case is justification for the use of deadly force.

Mexican troops threatened the US Border Patrol with rifles when the Border Patrol was forced to use firearms to control a escalating situation after a illegal with a lengthy arrest record in the US was shot and killed - so what gives: our rights, our borders or in some cases our lives.

If that half legal kenyan we have for a half legal president doesn't want to control illegal immigration then just leave it to the individual states. When one state gets tired of dealing with the problem and passes laws that push the illegals to another state it will be only a matter of time before that other state starts pushing them somewhere else.

Each state with a national border to Mexico should have a 2 mile wide free fire zone where only legal state residents can live, work and exercise their 2nd Amendment rights- everybody else gets shot. Now where the hay is that backhoe................

williamlayton · « **Reply #18 on:** July 06, 2010, 02:46:47 AM »

Arizona didn't think far enough---maybe Texas will get it right.
This is just closing the gap on how far we should go--a small Neuces Strip.
Blessings

Brett · « **Reply #19 on:** July 06, 2010, 03:12:45 AM »

Quote from: williamlayton on July 04, 2010, 12:45:56 PM

Let's set the scene.
You own 5000 acres in South Texas.
It has its problems from illegals crossing it.
There is evidence of vadalism.
You are on this land every day.

I'ld sell the ranch as soon as I could and move my family to Colorado. I would not be much good to them either behind bars or in the ground and most likely that is the way it would end up if I stayed. Just being practical. Until I was able to get out of there I would have a M&P40 on my hip at all times and a AR and short barreled pump shotgun accessible in my vehicle.

WD45 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 06, 2010, 04:42:02 AM »

The backhoe does not leave fingerprints to trace. Better put a drag on the back of it to cover your tracks though

Probably the best thing would be to never be out there alone if possible. In that type of situation there is some relative safey in numbers. Now as a rancher I would have to have fence to keep my livestock in. Mine would have a few thousand volts running through it along the border side:o

williamlayton · « **Reply #21 on:** July 06, 2010, 09:46:04 AM »

Fried Wetback for the scavangers. They would love the treatment. Hold the sauce.
Blessings

Old Griz · « **Reply #22 on:** July 08, 2010, 08:58:47 PM »

Quote from: hornady on July 05, 2010, 11:26:14 AM

Can anyone kind of see a double standard here, New York Black Panthers with clubs at polling booth, not a problem for the US Attorney General, Man in Texas defending his property, is violating a criminal illegals civil rights. I never thought you could make Janet Reno look good, But this guy is doing a good job of it.

Amen, brother. Amen.

Quote

Mikey, I don't know where you have been hiding, but that is "the law of the land." I know of two cases here in Texas where an on duty LEO was charged with and convicted for violating the civil rights of an illegal, I'm sure there are others.

And good old President Bush did absolutely nothing to help them.

If you cause enough trouble for them you're likely to wake up dead one morning and your house burned down. Either by the coyotes (the two-legged kind of course), or by the Mexican army working for the coyotes and or drug smugglers.

saddlebum · « **Reply #23 on:** July 09, 2010, 09:24:53 AM »

Here's another "WHAT IF",
What if you use your weapon of choice?
This 82yr old man is facing 12 felony counts and didn't hurt anyone.
I'm begining to think since they can't take our guns away that they will give you a life sentence if you defend yourself with one instead.

http://www.thefoxnation.com/illegal-immigrants/2010/07/09/elderly-man-charged-shooting-illegal-alien-thieves

I guess this shoots holes in someones plans to escape the problem by moving to Colorado or Montana.

Old Fart · « **Reply #24 on:** July 09, 2010, 09:46:12 AM »

Doesn't Texas have some laws protecting the property owner?
Castle doctrine or something........
Whatever they do down there the Okies will pro bably follow.
Big brother, little brother.
Whatever they do I hope they get it right, it'll help keep them out of my backyard.
I believe here in Oklahoma if they don't leave it's considered agression and you can fire away.

rockbilly · « **Reply #25 on:** July 09, 2010, 10:03:44 AM »

Texas does have a “Castle Doctrine” law which allows a land owner to use deadly force against anyone attempting to damage or destroy that property. It also allows for deadly force to protect one’s self, family or another person. The law is very clear as to what force can be used. The down side, the liberal bleeding heart immigration supporters have teamed with the ACLU and other like organizations and do everything within their power to try and make a land owner the bad guy. This has been evidenced several times here in Texas when PROPERTY WAS TAKEN FROM A LONG TIME LAND OWNER AND AWARDED TO AN ILLEGAL BECAUSE THE LIBERAL COURTS INTERPETED PROTECTION OF THE LAND TO BE A VIOLATION OF THE ILLEGAL’S CIVIL RIGHTS.

And we are about to see another liberal seated on the Supreme Court………where the hell is this country headed?

Curtis · « **Reply #26 on:** July 09, 2010, 01:07:40 PM »

Another good thing about Texas castle doctrine is that we can now carry a loaded, concealed handgun in our vehicle. The ambiguous travelling clause we used to have to abide by was no protection at all from an over zealous DA. It allows us to defend our vehicle with deadly force and removes any obligation to retreat from or abandon said vehicle to a car jacker. It also prevents the family of the perp that you may injure or kill from taking you to civil court which often would be as devestating as criminal court.

Curtis

blhof · « **Reply #27 on:** July 09, 2010, 01:13:49 PM »

A Barrett 50 on a bipod, 357maxDW with at least 3 speed loaders and a large wood chipper.

Hodr · « **Reply #28 on:** July 09, 2010, 03:04:24 PM »

Williamlayton,
How can you consider putting a backhoe or bobcat to such use. If you trap and pen about 50 of those Texas hogs you would be setting pretty. Don't feed them hogs anything for 3 days, by that time anything organic thrown in with them will be consumed bones and all. Putting extra hours on expensive machinery would be a waste, all hogs could then be sold to Obama fundraising committies. I have heard those Democrats really like to pack in pork whenever they can. This way they can have thier supporters and eat them too.

blindhari

Brett · « **Reply #29 on:** July 09, 2010, 05:34:40 PM »

Quote from: saddlebum on July 09, 2010, 09:24:53 AM

Here's another "WHAT IF",
What if you use your weapon of choice?
This 82yr old man is facing 12 felony counts and didn't hurt anyone.
I'm begining to think since they can't take our guns away that they will give you a life sentence if you defend yourself with one instead.

http://www.thefoxnation.com/illegal-immigrants/2010/07/09/elderly-man-charged-shooting-illegal-alien-thieves

I guess this shoots holes in someones plans to escape the problem by moving to Colorado or Montana.

Scratch Colorado of the list. This is just unbelievable. What the heck are these people thinking?!!! The old man should get the keys to the city not a prison sentence.