Good Black Bear Gun

[badbear]

I know this has been a topic for a long time and could last forever. I wanted to ask if anyone has had any experience using a Ruger .44 Mag. Carbine for Black bear. I own one I picked up for close in brush hunting on deer. I shoot the recommended load in it of a 240 grain jacketed soft point. I have several other rifles including a Ruger 77 30/06, 7X57 and several smaller centerfire rifles that I am not about to sting a bear with. I am lucky in that I work in a nice gun shop part time and "Work for Guns" so have chance to get something bigger before fall season opens. have looked at a Weatheryby 300 Win. Mag and a 338 Win. Mag. In this part of the country with the laurls and pine tree thickets a 100 yard shot or less is average.
Thanks for any advice on the .44
Badbear

[Empty Quiver]

You'll find most people consider it enough, not plenty, but enough. Now if you do go forward with the .44 mag, please learn the anatomy of a bear. Make a point of waiting for high percentage shots, and limit the range. Don't heed any advice that includes the phrase " you want to break 'em down ".  Act like a bowhunter and you have nothing to worry about.

[Thebear_78]

A lot of the 240gr bullets made for a 44mag are designed for lower velosities of a pistol and don't penetrate very well at carbine velosities.  I would get the toughest bullet you can find for it.  Maybe one of the barnes 225gr xpanding bullets.   depending on your carbine you can get it throated out to use heavier 300gr bullets. I would definately get the toughest 44 cal bullets you can get.     

[Siskiyou]

In most cases a 44 Magnum would be adequate at close range, but a lot depends on the bear’s attitude, in some cases more than the size.  Twice I have spent a couple days each tracking a bear a camper thought they had shot with a handgun.

If I do not go broke before fall I will have a bear tag in my pocket.  This conflict with my thoughts of carrying the .243 Winchester loaded with 105-grain Speer bullets.  I know that there are little bears and big bears.  What will work on a fifty pound bear might fail on a five hundred pound bear.

In turn a 44 Magnum out of a rifle barrel is more gun than the same round out of a pistol barrel.  Sounds like you have better options.

http://www.kcra.com/news/24126817/detail.html

http://www.kcra.com/news/21275380/detail.html

After reading the two links I will up caliber.

[trotterlg]

Black Bear?  A 30-30 is way more than enough.  Larry

[S.E.Ak]

Of shells you habe the 30-06 with 180 or 220 cor-lotk bullets. A option on your 44 would be to load one of the longer heaver loads in the chamber for first shot. It sounds like you have a bunch of rifle so maybe a rifled 12ga like H&R is due in you rack. I carry a H&R TrackerII 12ga here in Alaska and don't feel underguned,of course the Ruger Alaskan in 454 is on my hip also

[ironglow]

  Nothing wrong with the .44 mag..    For black bear, 30/30 or .35 Rem in a Marlin 336 would probably be ideal. (IMO)

[Redhawk1]

The 44 Mag would work just fine, but think about some hard cast bullets. You will get a lot better penetration with them.. Yes a 30-30 would be good as would a 35 Rem. Myself I like to make big holes in my bear, and I want 2 of them. Therefor I like the 45-70 with a hard cast 405 gr. bullet.

Your 30-06 is a good one if you are shooting at 100 plus yards, but will work well up close as well. Stick with the 180 gr. loads in it.

[turk762]

Just remember,  the bigger the hole the better the blood trail. I dont think it is so much what will work or kill a bear it is the matter of finding it afterwords. When me and my family went bear hunting with a bow in canada my uncle shot a big bear with expandable broadheads and a small cutting diameter  and it was lost(fat plugged the hole?) (bad blood trail).
The rest of us had larger solid heads and didnt have a problem.

[billy_56081]

A 44 mag with a decent bullet is an excellent option. I personally think a bear is easier to kill than a whitetail. The baiter I use is of the same opinio and he has had hundreds of bear kills over the years.

[Thebear_78]

I agree that bears aren't really that hard to kill.  The main worry I would have is bullet composition.  a few years ago a buddy of mine shot a 5.5' black bear with his 50 boewolf, two shots to teh shoulder area,  the bear ran off.   Found the next day still alive but hurting for sure.  A couple taps with his 10mm finished it off.  Upon inspection both of the 325gr bullets had flattened out and failed to penetrate the body cavity, caused massive bruising and broke the shoulder but didn't enter the heart lung area.  THe 325gr bullet designed for the 50 AE just wasn't tough enough to handle the added velosity of a carbine combined with the close range of bear baiting,  THe bullet striking the bear at muzzle velosity without the benefit of a few hundred hard to slow it down a touch.   You need to make sure the bullet is up to the job.   A bullet designed to operate at 1400fps and below might just fall apart at 1800+fps thats possible with the 44 mag out of a carbine.  The hornady 265gr bullet might be worth considering as it was designed for the 444 marlin and should handle velosities up to 2200fps.

With the proper bullet the 44 mag is more than capable of handling any bear even the brown kind at baiting ranges.  I wouldn't think twice about using a 357 magnum carbine for black bear.

[Redhawk1]

I agree that bears aren't really that hard to kill.  The main worry I would have is bullet composition.  a few years ago a buddy of mine shot a 5.5' black bear with his 50 boewolf, two shots to teh shoulder area,  the bear ran off.   Found the next day still alive but hurting for sure.  A couple taps with his 10mm finished it off.  Upon inspection both of the 325gr bullets had flattened out and failed to penetrate the body cavity, caused massive bruising and broke the shoulder but didn't enter the heart lung area.  THe 325gr bullet designed for the 50 AE just wasn't tough enough to handle the added velosity of a carbine combined with the close range of bear baiting,  THe bullet striking the bear at muzzle velosity without the benefit of a few hundred hard to slow it down a touch.   You need to make sure the bullet is up to the job.   A bullet designed to operate at 1400fps and below might just fall apart at 1800+fps thats possible with the 44 mag out of a carbine.  The hornady 265gr bullet might be worth considering as it was designed for the 444 marlin and should handle velosities up to 2200fps.

With the proper bullet the 44 mag is more than capable of handling any bear even the brown kind at baiting ranges.  I wouldn't think twice about using a 357 magnum carbine for black bear.

The 357 Mag would not even enter my mind for black bear hunting. Way to many better choices...

[Thebear_78]

LIke I said I wouldn't think twice about shooting a black bear with a 357 carbine with the right bullet, ranges are very close and the caliber is up to the challenge.   Even a big black bear is only 12-15" across the ribs and with the close range and abundance of time to pick your shot it would work just fine.  Not my first choice but doable.  I've shot several whitetails with the 357 lever gun and it never failed me.I only included that I wouldn't think twice about using the 357 to show that the 44 is plenty adequate with proper bullets.  

There are too many good choices to count for black bear over bait.  The 357 woudln't be my first choice, but either would the 44 mag.  I don't doubt for a second that either will work.  Personally I used a 300 RUM on my bear and same rifle and load killed two bears for freinds.  168gr Barnes TSX made for three one shot stops.  SHot mine at just over 300 yards on a boat based hunt in prince william sound, and my friends shot thiers over bait at under 30 yards,  worked just fine across the board.

[Lonnie]

I killed the bear in my avatar with a Marlin 1894 in .44 mag caliber. I was still hunting in the mountains here in TN down an old closed forest service road and happened to spot the bear coming up the mtn before it saw me. The bear passed about 25 yds in front of me walking and I put a 240 gr Winchester white box round that I bought at Wally World behind it's shoulder. I had a complete pass thru and the bear ran about 20 to 25 yds up hill after the shot. Huge blood trail and the bear was not moving at all when I got to it. Now some more info, the bear was not a large one, about 150 lbs tops. It was walking like I said, not alerted at all to my presence and finally, the shot was close and behind the shoulder. Not many animals survive a shot to the heart/lung area. We can't hunt over bait in TN but at the distances you hunt over bait the .44 should work. I would however keep in mind the possibility of how large a bear you could possibly kill and take that in consideration when choosing a caliber. We do have 300 to 400# bears and some were taken, mostly with a handgun because TN allows the use of dogs to hunt/tree the bear which most hunters here do (obviously not me). The hunter then has time (usually) to pick his shot. Also a hand gun is a lot easier to carry in the thick woods when you don't know where a bear will tree.
I will hunt again this year but with a 30-30 and 170 grn bullets and I don't feel undergunned but that is just my opinion. Anyway, good luck, Lonnie.

[Redhawk1]

Anyone hunting black bear has to know, you want big holes to get a good blood trail. Yes a lot of smaller caliber guns will work, but if your bear runs off, and does not leave a good blood trail, you may not find that bear.

[Lonnie]

I would agree with Redhawk, a good blood trail is a definite help. That was the first bear I had killed and I was impressed by the amount of fat on it. I can imagine the fat would "plug" up the bullet hole. On second thought, I have a new 45-70 H&R Trapper that I may bring instead. Good Hunting, Lonnie.

[Dee]

Fat will plug up a leaky hog, ask any Texan raised in hog country, so it will most likely plug up a leaky bear. But leak or not, a bad shot will not down either.

[Thebear_78]

I was talking to a buddy this morning and talk strayed to bear hunting.  Last year his wife had shot and lost a bear with here marlin lever gun in 45 colt.  She had been shooting the remington green box 250gr load.   It was a close range shot over bait,  appeared to be a solid hit but the bear ran off and they were never able to recover it.   They could only figure that teh bullet must have flattened out on the shoulder.  

This year she was successful.  She shot a nice bear, about 5.5', over the same bait with the same rifle.  The only difference was this year she was shooting a load from buffalo bore 325gr hard cast.    Similar setup but this time there was a dead bear a fw yards back into the brush.  

These pistol caliber carbines are very handy littel gunsa with minium recoil, All this talk has me thinking maybe I should keep my eyes open for a beat up 1894 in 44 or 45 over teh next couple years, fix it up for my boy.  Would make a nice short, handy little carbine that would be great for bear baiting, especially with a big gun backup in case somethign really large and brown came in.

[efremtags]

Pistol carbines work with proper heavy bullets when hunting over bait. Should be no issue if shots are under 50 yards.

My first bear was taken with a 300WM 180GR SP. It went through and through on a forward towards rear angle. Exit wound was fist size, and half the bears insides were outside. It caught lungs, and exited by the kidneys. That bear only left a few specs of blood at the shot, and we found it by just circling the area, not tracking. Only went about 85 yards. I triple the sentiments that these things leave lousy tracking wounds, and bigger holes are definitely the goal.

It's not that they are tanks, but the majority of people hunting over bait will be in woods so thick, tracking is a real issue.

[Redhawk1]

Pistol carbines work with proper heavy bullets when hunting over bait. Should be no issue if shots are under 50 yards.

My first bear was taken with a 300WM 180GR SP. It went through and through on a forward towards rear angle. Exit wound was fist size, and half the bears insides were outside. It caught lungs, and exited by the kidneys. That bear only left a few specs of blood at the shot, and we found it by just circling the area, not tracking. Only went about 85 yards. I triple the sentiments that these things leave lousy tracking wounds, and bigger holes are definitely the goal.

It's not that they are tanks, but the majority of people hunting over bait will be in woods so thick, tracking is a real issue.

Your last statement is right on. Also why tracking gets hard is, the fur is like a sponge, it soaks up the blood. I have kill quit a few black bear, and the furthest I tracked a bear was 25 yards. All shot with a 45-70, 510 GRN or 500 Mag. Everyone with a hard cast bullet. If you shoot them in the lungs they die fast. Big holes lets the air and blood out fast.

No black bear are not hard to kill, just hard to track in thick cover. A black bear in the low light is hard to find, they blend in well, and usually you are right on top of them when you find them. So you want to make your first shot count and only take good shots.

[ironglow]

I haven't shot a bear with one, but I am still amazed by the massive destruction the 170gr Winchester Power-point (CXP2) 30/30 does to a buck deer's chest cavity.
  Although most of my deer have been DRT..also with 12ga slugs and .44 mag, since I have seen the destruction the 30/30 does, I would feel extremely confident taking my Marlin 336 out for  black bears. With any success, I will experience it this fall.

[S.E.Ak]

I think most agree a 44mag with a good bullet works well for bear but I fear most won't function right in his 44mag carbine and thats the Question

[billy_56081]

A Nosler partition will work in a carbine fine, as will most other jacketed pistol bullets loaded to standard length. A 300 grain XTP would be another good choice. If you can't kill the biggest black bear with a 44 mag carbine over bait you can't kill it with a 458 mag.

[Country Boy]

I have killed 20 big black bear with a .358 winchester and .250 grn  bullets. All drt also killed bear with other calibers like an o6, just hit them in the middle of the middle and you got your bear.

[six_gunz]

Black Bear?  A 30-30 is way more than enough.  Larry

+1,

The old .30-30 has killed more Ursus Americanas than any other caliber.

[S.E.Ak]

I could not get 300 gr loads to work in the deerstalker I had (Tube feed). I'm fairly sure big stuff like Buffalo Bore would wear the nice little gun out fast. The Hornady LR may just work good at fifty yards

[bearmgc]

A 444Marlin. Because....its fun.

[Ak.Hiker]

One heavier bullet that runs just fine in my Ruger Carbine is the 270 grain Speer Gold Dot SP. They are loaded to the same overall length as the 240 JSP loads. Double Tap also loads the Speer 240 grain Gold Dot that would be a good choice as the Gold Dot JSP is bonded.  For my money I would just run the 240 grain Winchester White box 240 grain JSP and call it good. The Winchester 240 grain JSP is a good load. Bill Ruger killed a leopard with his 44 Carbine. He made the comment that within 100 yards it killed about as well as a 30/06. I carried my Ruger Carbine for bear protection when I was a young guy. They are good handy little guns. They really are designed for the 240 grain JSP. 

[teddy12b]

I'll be bear hunting next month with two buddies.  All three of us are going to bring a 30-06, but I'm also going to bring a Puma 92 44mag lever action just to have a spare.  I may end up alternating hunting rifles every other day just for fun.  In that 44mag I plan on using some 320gr hard cast handloads.  They cycle very well in that rifle and are accurate enough.  I'd look at all the options out there for the 44mag.  There's so many different ammo makers out there that you can have anything from 180gr, to 320 in either jacketed or hard cast give or take a little.  I know the handiest rifle I've ever hunted with is that little 44mag carbine and that's important in thick heavy bear country.

[Redhawk1]

I'll be bear hunting next month with two buddies.  All three of us are going to bring a 30-06, but I'm also going to bring a Puma 92 44mag lever action just to have a spare.  I may end up alternating hunting rifles every other day just for fun.  In that 44mag I plan on using some 320gr hard cast handloads.  They cycle very well in that rifle and are accurate enough.  I'd look at all the options out there for the 44mag.  There's so many different ammo makers out there that you can have anything from 180gr, to 320 in either jacketed or hard cast give or take a little.  I know the handiest rifle I've ever hunted with is that little 44mag carbine and that's important in thick heavy bear country.

Where are you going to be hunting?