454, I don't remember what OAL I used for for the few I shot, I don't even remember how well they shot either. I'm sure I loaded them where they were almost touching the lands. When I bought them I had planned on shooting them from mags and after shooting a handful of them in single shot mode I put the box away. By the way I've had good luck with the 75gr hornady hpbt in my ar, they shoot half moa at 100yds and able to pop balloons at 450yds, I'm happy with that. Dave