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Author Topic: 45-70 BC length  (Read 1708 times)

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Offline Dinny

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45-70 BC length
« on: July 06, 2010, 05:15:06 PM »
I have a 45-70 BC barrel and find it to be a bit too long for my liking. It shoots very well, but I want to shorten it. What would be the optimal length for "handiness" and good range. I had a 22" barrel, but felt it was too short. What about 25"? Does it still feel "handi" at that length?  Any suggestions on a crown type?

Thanks, Dinny

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2010, 06:18:21 PM »
Mine's 28". It works very well; 26-27 might be perfect.


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Offline Dinny

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2010, 06:33:25 PM »
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 06, 2010, 06:18:21 PM
Mine's 28". It works very well; 26-27 might be perfect.

Thanks for the info. 26"-27" would take 5-6 inches off the end......hmmm, I'll have to think about that one.

Thanks, Dinny
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2010, 07:25:50 PM »
Also, it has an 11 degree crown.



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Offline Dinny

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2010, 07:26:36 PM »
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 06, 2010, 07:25:50 PM
Also, it has an 11 degree crown.

Thanks  :)
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2010, 03:15:28 AM »
Dinny,

4D rents reamers for recrowns, they might have an 11 degree tool for the .458.  I cutdown a 22" 45/70 to 18.5" and recrowned per the info. in the FAQs; hacksaw, file and round stone.  Gun shoots a tad better after shortening (1.5" @ 100 yds), but I have only shot cast lead.  Accuracy acceptable because this is a hog gun that is zeroed at 50 yards.  You will need someone to cut you a dovetail if you want to keep your original front sight or can drill & tap for a different front sight.  

BB
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Offline jw1044

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2010, 05:17:26 AM »
I cut mine to 27" and it is just as accurate but much easier to handle in a tree stand, or on the ground.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2010, 05:41:26 AM »
Don cut his BC barrel to 27" and added a recoil pad.

Tim

Quote from: Big Blue on March 08, 2010, 02:11:58 PM
I have used a dovetail file to create a dovetail for a full length tube magazine on a Marlin 1895. It takes a lot of patience and you must be exact as far as lining it up on the barrel. You could always use the barrel cut off for practice. Here's one from Wheeler Engineering: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=867943
Now here's a 27" barrel and a 16"!
Don


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Offline necchi

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2010, 06:16:40 AM »
Aw geez,,if it ain't broke don't fix it,, :'(
I have a couple 32" ml's,,Yes, at first they seemed long
But once you find the sweet load, the accuracy you get from those extra few inches more than compensates for the funny feeling of "too long".
I don't care what guys say about needing short barrels as "brush guns"

Look at it this way, your use too short because that's what they gave ya in the service,,don't wreck a good gun.
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Offline Spanky

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2010, 06:27:57 AM »
Quote from: necchi on July 07, 2010, 06:16:40 AM
Look at it this way, your use too short because that's what they gave ya in the service,,don't wreck a good gun.


He ain't wreckin' anything... he's makin' it work better for him. What's wrong with that? I just sent my 44mag to be cut and crowned at 18" so it would be better for treestand use... it's the same thing... I'm makin' it work better for me. ;)



Spanky
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Offline Dinny

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2010, 01:39:56 PM »
Quote from: necchi on July 07, 2010, 06:16:40 AM
Aw geez,,if it ain't broke don't fix it,, :'(
I have a couple 32" ml's,,Yes, at first they seemed long
But once you find the sweet load, the accuracy you get from those extra few inches more than compensates for the funny feeling of "too long".
I don't care what guys say about needing short barrels as "brush guns"

Look at it this way, your use too short because that's what they gave ya in the service,,don't wreck a good gun.

I like to hunt from ground blinds. That 32" barrel is longer than the width of my small blind. :-\ Not too "handi" in there.

Thanks, Dinny

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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
Thomas Paine

Offline Dinny

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2010, 01:43:27 PM »
Quote from: bikerbeans on July 07, 2010, 03:15:28 AM
Dinny,
4D rents reamers for recrowns, they might have an 11 degree tool for the .458.  I cutdown a 22" 45/70 to 18.5" and recrowned per the info. in the FAQs; hacksaw, file and round stone.  Gun shoots a tad better after shortening (1.5" @ 100 yds), but I have only shot cast lead.  Accuracy acceptable because this is a hog gun that is zeroed at 50 yards.  You will need someone to cut you a dovetail if you want to keep your original front sight or can drill & tap for a different front sight.  
BB

BB,
  Thanks for the info. I'm afraid to cut and crown it myself. But then again it could be good practice to start at 28" and I could always cut it back if I messed it up. ::)

Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
Thomas Paine

Offline tacklebury

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2010, 04:29:56 PM »
Just as an aside, you might consider just getting a shorty barrel for the same frame, then you can have your cake and eat it too. ;0
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline Dinny

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2010, 04:31:38 PM »
Quote from: tacklebury on July 07, 2010, 04:29:56 PM
Just as an aside, you might consider just getting a shorty barrel for the same frame, then you can have your cake and eat it too. ;0

Good point, maybe I should have held onto that 22" barrel I had. ::)

Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2010, 04:45:26 PM »
Lol, from another angle, I can understand wanting more than 22" length.  Not that it cannot be accurate, but I do see a difference.  A final thought from me is that another .45-70 BC barrel is $135 according to the H&R website and then you could take the second BC to a competent gunsmith or do a self chop to about 26".  Clear back to the good Reverend Forsythe, 26" on a sporting gun for out to 200 yard shooting is the best all around for accuracy to carryability.  I have an electronic copy of his book "The Sporting Rifle and it's Projectiles" if you'd ever like one.  8)  26" is also considered optimal for most sniping rifles etc.  The only thing that the extra 6" really gives you is the ability to burn a large powder load completely and especially with a slow burner like Reloader7 which I love, the accuracy gains are fairly minimal.  Even using Marble Arms sight radius chart, you can see below (scroll to bottom):

http://www.marblearms.com/frontSights_info.html

The gains are minimal at only about 14 thousandths in sight variance at 100 yards.  Hope this helps you decide. 8)
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline Dinny

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2010, 04:56:59 PM »
I would like to read that book. Can it be sent via email or is it too large? I like the 26" length and think it would bring alotta "Handiness". ;)

Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
Thomas Paine

Offline tacklebury

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2010, 05:05:41 PM »
Email sent, sorry, but it might have gone through twice.  ;)
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline Dinny

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2010, 05:08:26 PM »
Quote from: tacklebury on July 07, 2010, 05:05:41 PM
Email sent, sorry, but it might have gone through twice.  ;)

Got it, reply sent. :)

Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
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Offline dangerranger

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2010, 10:49:50 PM »
Best I can tell the 32" barrel is so that you can use up all the expansion of Black Powder. to get the full potential of bp, you would need the barrel length.  if your using smokeless loads cut it to what ever length is handiest. DR
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Offline eskimo36

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2010, 05:03:38 AM »
I have a BC cut to 24" that makes for a good balancing/carry gun.
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2010, 05:31:04 AM »
And, if I remember right, my H&R TM 38-55 is 28", which I do like.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2010, 07:13:37 AM »
I'd go with 26" but I feel the 22" is more than enough.  Black Powder burns instantly so a long barrel doesn't help much.
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2010, 07:58:49 AM »
So the documented, chronographed, velocity increases with black powder from short to reasonably long barrels is incorrect?
Reference: The Lyman Blackpowder Handbook
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      ><   ->
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Offline shvlhead.45

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2010, 12:23:12 PM »
Dinny,

Having shot both the BC and the .45-70 Handi and like both, I found the 22" barrel more useful.  Now, when I get rich I'd like to have both or at least fit a BC and 22" barrel to the same receiver with the BC furniture.  Add the .45CR to the safe and have a big brother/little brother .45 caliber "matched set".  Oh, think I want to set up my .30-30 with BC or CR funiture as well.  All in due time.

v/r
Shvlhead.45
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Offline Dinny

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2010, 02:14:12 PM »
Quote from: shvlhead.45 on July 09, 2010, 12:23:12 PM
Dinny,
Having shot both the BC and the .45-70 Handi and like both, I found the 22" barrel more useful.  Now, when I get rich I'd like to have both or at least fit a BC and 22" barrel to the same receiver with the BC furniture.  Add the .45CR to the safe and have a big brother/little brother .45 caliber "matched set".  Oh, think I want to set up my .30-30 with BC or CR funiture as well.  All in due time.
v/r
Shvlhead.45

That sure would make for a purdy family photo!  ;D

Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
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Offline Swampman

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2010, 03:31:41 PM »
Quote from: gcrank1 on July 09, 2010, 07:58:49 AM
So the documented, chronographed, velocity increases with black powder from short to reasonably long barrels is incorrect?
Reference: The Lyman Blackpowder Handbook

Yes it is
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline bikerbeans

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2010, 04:43:04 PM »
Blackpowder doesn't burn in a barrel it explodes.  The pressure in the bore has not dissipated at 22" or for that matter 32".  A longer barrel will give  you more velocity in a black powder gun.  I don't think that the fellows shooting those long guns in the 1800s where carrying around that extra weight for fun.
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline Swampman

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2010, 04:53:01 PM »
They liked the longer sight radius, and they believed long barrels were more accurate.  Some people still do.
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline bikerbeans

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2010, 04:58:04 PM »
The main guns on WWII ships shot rounds propelled by black powder.  Why did they have such long barrels?
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline Swampman

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Re: 45-70 BC length
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2010, 06:22:06 PM »
To get the muzzle blast away from the ship.
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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