The Good the Bad & the ugly

[hornady]

Over the years, especially the last 30 years, there have been great stride forward in guns, ammo, bullets, reloading, scopes, and electronics, for shooting and hunting.
But you have to wonder about some of the stuff on the market today.
I was reading in one of my hunting magazines, an add for the all-time best Elk rifle, it’s the LAR Grizzly .50 BMG, just me but that’s kind of seems like Duck hunting with a Bazooka,
There are a couple new rounds I have to wonder about too, the .450 bushmaster, 30 Remington AR, and the .458 Socom, all have ballistic equal’s in other rounds. I know these are AR and M1A rounds, but the add said they would soon be making bolt, lever, and single shots rifles for these rounds
I was reading about a new import from Turkey, its the AT-14, it’s a 410 shot gun on an AR 15 plat form, I can see this selling in countries that ban, semi-auto rifles, I just don’t see a big demand here.
Don’t get me wrong, there are some great new products on the market, but some of this stuff just makes you scratch your head and say who would ever want this stuff.

[Sourdough]

An AR in .410 would be a great defensive weapon, for the times one is cornered by a herd of feral cats.

[powderman]

HORNADY. I'm not much for the new calibers, especially rifle. Like you said, too many of them simply duplicate existing proven calibers. I think a lot of the magnumitis is simply to appeal to city folk, the once or twice a year hunters. So called inferior, or obsolete rifle calibers have been killing big game and defending homes for hundreds of years. You can't kill an animal deader than dead. A .50 cal bmg would be overkill for any animal on this earth, but it will have an appeal for  folks who believe all the hype. I'll stick with my obsolete 3030 win, 308 win, and 4570 govt. How did our ancestors ever get by with those old ancient firearms? They got along very well. POWDERMAN. 

[briarpatch]

Is something wrong with options? The gas companies all have the same product. I want buy from citgo for obvious reasons. You will find the same likes and dislikes in guns and ammo.
Options are good.

[Ron 1]

sourdough...i cannt help it     = +1 on the feral cats             
              rw 

[powderman]

BRIARPATCH. Nothing wrong with options, but bigger or newer is not necessarilly better, only bigger, or newer. POWDERMAN.

[powderman]

sourdough...i cannt help it     = +1 on the feral cats             
              rw 

YEP, I hate cats, but, they are the OTHER white meat. POWDERMAN. 

[myronman3]

alot of the new stuff out there is the same old stuff, with a new name and slight differences.  i feel the same as you about some of this stuff, but i am glad that we have as many choices as we do.  that side of the equation is good.   now if ruger would just make a damn five shot gp100 in 41 magnum, i would be tickled pink.

[powderman]

My cousin bought a new Redhawk in 480 Ruger, I loved shooting it. The recoil wasn't near as bad as I had expected. There are good new guns and calibers for sure, but my point was that you can't kill a deer, or whatever, any deader than dead, also compare the prices and availability of ammo. POWDERMAN. 

[hornady]

Feral cats , Hummm now that 50 BMG might not be a bad gun for that, not that I don’t like cats , a few have come up missing around here, too much lead in there diet.

[Sourdough]

I live in Alaska.  Availiability is a problem here.  I carry two calibers when I go out of town, 30-06 and .338 Win Mag.  Every small town store and villege trading post will have those two calibers.  They will also carry 30-30, .223, and maybe .300 Win Mag, don't count on anything else.  Those new whiz bang little magnums, you forget, lose, or run out of shells, you got an expensive club.  Oh you can find plenty of ammo in Anchorage, or Fairbanks.  But get out in Rural ALaska and they are just not there.

Some of the new cartridges are designed for the inherant weakness of a certain platform system.  Yea, alloy ARs can't handle the pressures of a good old 30-06, nor the length.  Now great strides have been made in powders, allowing the development of these new cartridges.  They can take a smaller cartridge and do great things with it.  What will that same technology do with the old cartridge.  Instead of making new cartridges, why not improve the old ones.  Weatherby came out with the idea of the 30/378 and .338/378 back in the 60s, but the powders was not availiable back then to power those big powerhouses.  Today look at what they can do.

What do we hunt in this country, Whitetail, Mulies, Antalope, Elk, Moose, Caribou, Black Bears, and Grizzly/Brown Bears.  You don't need or want a semi auto for these animals.  Now Hogs, Wolves, Coyotes, and other varmits, a semi auto is OK and in some cases needed.  But far too often with semi autos a shooter will spray the area, instead of aiming and making a killing shot.  I found that out while in the military.

Now I will say the strides in new scopes and range finders has been great.  Look at what I do.  I carry a .338/378 Weatherby, with a 3.5X15X50 Night Force scope.  I use a leupold lazer range finder.  By using the range finder to determine the range, and dialing my scope to match that range, I am able to kill Moose, Caribou, and Bears out at ranges I would have never dreamed of 30 years ago.  I'm a crippled up old man, stalking is not always an option.

I pick off a Feral Cat once in a while too.

Both my hunting partners have .50BMGs, they are trying to talk me into getting one as well.  I've shot the Barrett and liked shooting it too much.  I can not afford to feed that thing.

[Spirithawk]

If my .270 won't bring it down I'm not sure I really want to shoot at it. lol

[powderman]

If my .270 won't bring it down I'm not sure I really want to shoot at it.


HEH, yep, don't want to tick a big critter off if a 270 won't kill it. You guys can keep your whizzbangers, I'll plod along, eating meat killed with  my ancient rifles with cast bullets. High velocity means nothing to a dead deer. POWDERMAN. 

[SHOOTALL]

guys guys , with regard to the 30-AR , 458 socom and 450 bushmaster they were invented to work in an AR . The mag. well limits the O.A.L. of what can be cycled thru. the action . In some cases like some mentioned and others they were the brainchild of some guy trying to improve the usefulness of an AR rifle . A close range sniper round out of an AR would help with training as the controls were the same as the duty rifle. The large heavy bullet of the 450 or 458 would put a close range target down quickly . And the changing out of different cals. could be accomplished with an upper change. As for bolt guns etc. why not ?
 What i find odd is that over the years American have always used something like their service rifle as a sporting rifle or way back used their hunting gun for service.. It may not have been a detail copy but it had an effect . We were single shot lever gun guys until WW1 then many of us  went bolt gun . After WW2 it was the auto loader and now its the Black gun . The Black gun calls for a more enomical round and we are seeing the result.
As for the 50 BMG I know its good to over 2000 yards and can reach out across places other rounds would be wanting but i bet the ad was to gain attention. But the they do have kits to build .50's on LAR grizz AR lowers , but some say the lower is consumable  
The 410 shotgun why not ? the Winchester 94 and Marlin lever 410 sold out . It would be a nice gun to have in an area where no handguns are allowed . And i think i would enjoy informal skeet with one  

[SHOOTALL]

If my .270 won't bring it down I'm not sure I really want to shoot at it.


HEH, yep, don't want to tick a big critter off if a 270 won't kill it. You guys can keep your whizzbangers, I'll plod along, eating meat killed with  my ancient rifles with cast bullets. High velocity means nothing to a dead deer. POWDERMAN. 

Rifle type means little to deer  either ! But the guy shooting it may have spent years with a black rifle serving this country and likes it as much as many of us do our 94's and 870's ! Ain't it great we are still free to use what we like ?

[Sourdough]

Shootall:  You are correct, it is great that we have the ability to chose and select the guns we want to shoot and enjoy.  No matter what it is, or how rediculious others may feel it is.  We still have the ability to select and to use the gun of our choice almost.  We also have the right to complain and fuss about what others think is a good gun.  It's great living in America and enjoying our freedomes we need to make sure we preserve that.

Yes I'm thinking about getting a .50BMG.  I'm also thinking about getting a Black Rifle in 22-250 or 6.5 for Varmits.

Good shooting and may your groups keep getting smaller.  Rog

[subdjoe]

There is also the economics of the firearms industry.  There are only so many 700s or M77s that will sell before the market for them gets full and sales fall.   Only by bringing out new calibers, slightly different platforms, etc. can the industry stay solvent.  Basically, they have to make us somehow at least a bit dissatisfied with what we have in order to sell us something new.


ADDED - Re the 50BMG for elk, I recall seeing a few years ago an article, don't remember if it was online or in one of the gun rags, about a couple that does that. If I remember correctly, they don't take shots at much under 1000 yards. 

[GRIMJIM]

Mind you feral cat bites can be pretty nasty.

[williamlayton]

It makes sense to me to limit the different calibers to common ones.
While a whiz-bamg hot rodder may be fun to shoot--as has been said there does come a time when you need more ammo.
Me think--If, and it aint gonna happen--I lived and hunted in Alaska--I would get me a Barrett .416----seems like I kinda contradicted myownself--but I sure would like to own one of those Jackrabbits.
Blessings

[Spirithawk]

Any rifle that fits you right, feels good in your hands, is accurate within reason, of caliber enough to get the job done, and very importantly...you have faith in, is the right rifle for you. That same rifle could be on the oposite end of the spectrum for someone else though. It could be the best rifle made but if you don't feel comfortable with it it will shoot like the worst.  I've taken to hunting strictly with single shots, a T/C Encore .270 and a CVA Optima Pro .50 cal. My son is fast leaning towards nothing but single shots too. We simply like the feel of them plus their accuracy and reliability. Not to mention the wide range of calibers you can get barrels in and the challenge of making that one shot count. I don't care how many shots your rifle can spit out that first one is the one that counts most and if placed right is all you need. My son and I share a gun cabinet. In it live an AYA double side by side 12 gauge, two Mossberg 835 3 1/2" mag 12 pump gauges, Two .22 a Remington and a Ruger, two .243's. three .50 cal muzzleloaders, a T/C Encore .270, a pre 64 Winchester .30-30 and a Ruger Mark II All Weather 7mm mag. The only thing I might add is a .300 Winchester Mag. Each gun we have has it's own purpose in our various hunting hunting pursuits. I won't begin to list our handguns lol We have a mountain lion prowling around close to my house so I don't step outside witout at least a .45 on my hip.

[LONGTOM]

If I was cornered and the AR in 410, or any gun in any caliber was all I had, then it still beats a stick.
Don't under estamate the 410!



LONGTOM

[JPShelton]

There are a couple new rounds I have to wonder about too, the .450 bushmaster, 30 Remington AR, and the .458 Socom, all have ballistic equal’s in other rounds. I know these are AR and M1A rounds, but the add said they would soon be making bolt, lever, and single shots rifles for these rounds

Don’t get me wrong, there are some great new products on the market, but some of this stuff just makes you scratch your head and say who would ever want this stuff.

I suspect that a good many folks felt the same way back in 1895 when the hot, new, smokeless .30WCF was introduced in the Model 1894 lever action.  Over 7 million units sold proved that someone, somewhere, eventually "wanted this stuff."

I might not see much need for the .450 and .458, but the .30 Remington AR could be the shooter of tomorrow's "thutty-thutty" and particularly when partnered with the AR platform it was designed for.

-JP

[JPShelton]

If my .270 won't bring it down I'm not sure I really want to shoot at it.


HEH, yep, don't want to tick a big critter off if a 270 won't kill it. You guys can keep your whizzbangers, I'll plod along, eating meat killed with  my ancient rifles with cast bullets. High velocity means nothing to a dead deer. POWDERMAN. 

Rifle type means little to deer  either ! But the guy shooting it may have spent years with a black rifle serving this country and likes it as much as many of us do our 94's and 870's ! Ain't it great we are still free to use what we like ?

Amen!  ......And as time goes on, in an age where divorce rates run a tick over 50%, it is entirely likely that the shooter and hunter of tomorrow will be introduced to firearms not by dad, grandpa, or uncle Fred, but by "Uncle Sam" via military service.  And that shooter will be inclined to stick with what they know.  That is likely to be an AR platform rifle.  Seems to me, as I stated previously, that something like an R-15 in .30 Remington AR will be the "thutty-thutty" of the future.  If I ever wear my Marlin 336 out, I'd be sorely tempted to replace it with a .30 Remington AR chambered R-15 or other AR type rifle.

-JP