Author Topic: FA model 97 .45 colt ? (Read 3805 times)

mdlfork · « **on:** July 07, 2010, 11:09:36 AM »

Hello, I am a long time lurker first time poster. I have finally taken the bait and ordered a FA model 97 .45 colt, 4.25 in. barrel, ivory micarta grips and action/trigger job. It is about 3 weeks out now and I am getting anxious. Freedom is pretty close to home so I have been able to handle all of the variations at the factory and am pretty confident I''ll like my new revolver.

I have new brass all sized, trimmed and ready to load. I have Unique, HS6, 2400 and H110 and CCI 300 & 350 primers on hand. The only bullets I have found locally are the Hornady 250 gr. XTPs, which I have. I would like to use cast but will wait until I have the revolver in hand so I can measure the chamber throats. I think I would like to try Beartooth Bullets 265 gr. and 300 gr. WFN bullets. Has anyone tried these in the 97 .45?

I really need to hear some FA model 97 .45 talk, so if anyone has any favorite bullets and powder they like in the 97 .45 I would love to hear about them. Thanks, Mdlfork

ktw · « **Reply #1 on:** July 07, 2010, 11:43:31 AM »

The biggest limitation with cast bullets in the 97/45 Colt is the short cylinder length. You will need to keep the crimp to meplat length less than .350" (preferably less) in standard length brass for them to fit the cylinder. The 250 and 300gr XTPs work. The Lee 300gr gas check bullet fits, as do Lyman 454190, Lyman 452423 and various others. The nose on most of the standard Keiths is too long. You may have to trim brass short to use them.

I have shot 300 grainers at 1200fps in mine (once). It was quite a handful.

My standard load for the gun is the Lyman 454190 over 9.2 Unique. 454190 has shot very well for me in this revolver, out to a couple hundred yards.

-ktw

paul105 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 07, 2010, 03:11:27 PM »

First a word of caution -- DO NOT USE ANY "RUGER/TC ONLY" DATA THAT SHOWS CARTRIDGES LOADED TO AN OVERALL LENGTH GREATER THAN 1.600"!! To fit in the FA97, the bullets have to be seated deeper, encroaching on powder space and increasing pressure accordingly.

With that said, I've always had good luck (accuracy wise) with the Hornady 250gr XTPs in both the FA97 and FA83 and a Rosi 92 Levergun.

You didn't say what type of load you are looking for but your listed powders should cover standard .45 Colt loads up to and including "Ruger Only" loads (which Freedom Arms says are OK except as indicated above re: 1.600 OAL limitation).

Hodgdon's on line data manual lists loads for both "Standard" and "Ruger/TC Only" loads -- HS6 in the standard section and H110 in the "Ruger" section.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

John Linebaugh has load data on his website for the 260gr Keith that he indicates can also be used with the 250gr XTP, I've copied the starting loads below.

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Starting Loads
Bullet    Powder    Grs.    Vel.    CUP
260 cast    H-110    25.5    1364    24,800
260 cast    H 4227    24    1180    24.800
260 cast    #2400    19    1165    24,800
260 cast    HS-6    14    1130    25.000
260 cast    Unique    10.5    1050    24,800

This data can be used with the 240 gr. Sierra JHP, 250 XTP and 260 Speer JHP
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Speer and Hornady also list data for both levels of .45 Colt loads. I'm sure Sierra does also, but I don't have a manual.

Here are some links that might help save you some time.

True Max OAL for FA97s
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,163835.0.html

FA97 Strength
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,105202.0.html

FA97 .45 Colt Bullet Selection
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,174658.0.html

Paul

Daman · « **Reply #3 on:** July 07, 2010, 03:28:36 PM »

I spoke with the president of the company yesterday about a 41 mag in the Model 97. We talked about an hour and he was one of the nicest, most down to earth people I have ever had the privilege to talk business with. The FA revolvers a real investment, but to hear him talk they should last our grandchildren a life time. I will be visiting with him in person hopefully next week!

Daman

mdlfork · « **Reply #4 on:** July 07, 2010, 05:55:42 PM »

Thank you for the replies! Lots of info there to digest, just what I was looking for. For now I think I will stick with bullets that will crimp in the crimp groove and give me 1.6 or less, that is one reason I thought I would try the Beartooth 265 and 300 WFN account they are designed to use in the model 97. As far as velocity is concerned I think 1000-1100 fps with any bullet would make me happy, if I need more than that especially with 300 gr. plus I'll probably use a different platform.

Looks like some HS6 or Unique with the 250 XTPs will get me started, can't wait!

Thanks,
mdlfork

1sourdough · « **Reply #5 on:** July 08, 2010, 02:32:43 AM »

I have a 45 Colt Blackhawk & a Redhawk in 45 on the way. My barrels are 4 5/8" & 4.2" on the Redhawk. So for I have just gone to the mid range of the 'Ruger only' loads. I found that 9.7 grains of Unique with a 250 grn plated bullet gave 1070 fps+/- over the chrony. I've also been thinking about some Beartooth 265 grn GC cast bullets. With my shorter barrels & intended use I don't have any plans to go with max H-110/win 296 loads at this time. I have also loaded some 200 grn home cast bullets in the 45 Schofield cases with Titegroup, 6 grains. That makes for a nice plinking load. Since I have a fair amount of the plated bullets in .452 I may do a penetration test to see how the perform & deform. If they hold up pretty well I may just bump up my Unique charge a little & call it good on my upper end loads. I don't plan on any hunting with this load, just side carry on a bear hunt or hiking.

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #6 on:** July 08, 2010, 12:31:44 PM »

The 250 XTP performs very well in my 5 1/2" 97 when driven by 17.5 gr. 2400 & CCI 350's. I usually use 19.5 gr. in Rugers, and the 97 will stand that load just fine, but 17.5 is much more comfortable. Source: Hornady manuals.
I quit using anything other than 2400 in the .45 Colt years ago.

kynardsj · « **Reply #7 on:** July 08, 2010, 12:51:05 PM »

My hot 265 gr FNGC Beartooth bullets are sitting over 21 grains of Lilgun for approx 1300 fps and my 250 gr XTP's are over 24 gr of LILgun for approx 1350 fps from my Ruger Blackhawk. They're both a handfull and I don't shoot a lot of them but wouldn't hesitate to load a cylinder full if I was in bear country or another bad situation. My fun loads are 250 gr RNFP bullets from Western Bullet Co. Very in-expensive and a lot of fun over 9.0 gr of Unique for 875 fps. There was a picture of a Model 97 FA on another thread recently. Very nice !!!

mdlfork · « **Reply #8 on:** July 08, 2010, 01:30:24 PM »

Mr. Oneill,
Just curious, do you have a specific reason you are using the CCI 350's with 2400? Also do you think the use of faster burning powder than 2400 in my 4.25 inch model 97 would have any advantage?

Thank you!
mdlfork

picturerock · « **Reply #9 on:** July 08, 2010, 01:35:25 PM »

I am all with you on the 97 in 45 Colt. You will love it.

kynardsj · « **Reply #10 on:** July 08, 2010, 01:38:12 PM »

That's the pic of the 97 I was talking about. Pardon me while I drool.

Racer X · « **Reply #11 on:** July 13, 2010, 03:33:30 PM »

Quote from: mdlfork on July 08, 2010, 01:30:24 PM

Mr. Oneill,
Just curious, do you have a specific reason you are using the CCI 350's with 2400? Thank you!
mdlfork

Ken
I am also curious about magnum primers with 2400. I know the loading manuals recommend standard primers, but am wondering if you are on to something? Have you ever done a side-by-side comparison with 2400, with the only variance being the primer type?
I shoot alot of 2400 (standard primers) because that is what I have. However, I'm not overly impressed with the accuracy or high extreme spreads over the chrony.

doghawg · « **Reply #12 on:** July 13, 2010, 07:15:49 PM »

mdlfork

You'll have to be logged in to see this pic but I just picked up a nice field grade .44 mag. I've had real good luck with several .44 mags with 17 to 18 gr. of 2400 under any good 240 to 260 gr. bullet when sparked by Win. large pistol std. or magnum primers. Just for the heck of it I loaded a few rounds with Fed 150 primers. Most of the loads listed with 2400 and standard primers seem to be using CCI 300's which I haven't tried. While my 10 round "test" is hardly scientific I'll stick with WLP's. This was with Lyman/Ideal #429244's sized to .430" at 25 yards from a wobbly wrist rest.

Congrats on your 97!

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #13 on:** July 16, 2010, 12:54:46 PM »

Mdlfork and Racer X, sorry for the delay in responding, but it's been several days since I visited this thread.

In the seventies and early eighties, most everyone I was acquainted with and read of, used magnum primers with 2400. Then Ross Seyfried wrote an article mentioning how he learned from Elmer Keith not long before his stroke that Keith had never used or tried magnum primers with that powder in the .44 Magnum!

That surprised Mr. Seyfried and a lot of other people. I believe this was the impetus for a movement to regular primers with 2400. In my case, I continued to use CCI 350's with 21 / 2400 and 240 jacketed bullets, and CCI 300's with cast bullets driven by 17.5 gr. 2400. Accuracy tests @ 100 &200 yds. convinced me that was the right formula, FWIW. A gross oversimplification which may not hold up across all calibers and load combinations was "magnum for jacketed, regular for cast"

I do however generally use the 300's in the .41 Mag. when I use 2400 - and the Sierra 210 JHC. I tested some years ago, and found very little accuracy difference between the 2 primers in this instance. I had worked up my first .41` Mag. loads with regular primers many years ago, and have just been loath to change. If it ain't broke....

Fast forward to 2002 and my acquisition of my first .50 AE FA revolver. I had a difficult time getting accuracy and no bullet back-out in that cartridge. You could say I talked with a lot of people at FA, Speer and elsewhere and did a lot of testing. Several of my articles appeared in The Sixgunner on that topic. I didn't want a hot rod .50, I wanted a FUN .50. I found the right combination with the Speer 325 JHP and 2400 (21 gr.) and CCI 350's, for 1110 fps from my 6" FA. Accurate, kills hogs like lightning, without any bullet back - out.
Here's the kicker with the development of that particular load: The 350's gave 125 - 150 fps more velocity, and groups 25 - 40 % SMALLER than the CCI 300's. Not believing it I tested again...then again.
That performance could only be achieved with magnum primers.

In short, I believe that a good shooters final testing of his most outstanding loads should include testing of primers, and in hot and cold weather.

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #14 on:** July 16, 2010, 01:19:58 PM »

mdlfork,
No, I do not think that a faster burning powder than 2400 is desireable or necessary in your 4.25" barrel 45 Colt 97.
That's just my opinion, but I'm stickin' to it!

mdlfork · « **Reply #15 on:** July 16, 2010, 01:58:09 PM »

Mr. Oneill,

Thank you for the reply! I was one of those who used a magnum primer with 2400 in 1973 when I purchased my first .44 mag. I was also one of those who stopped using them when I heard that Elmer Keith used standard primers. Did I compare the two to see which worked the best, nope, I just switched to standard primers and figured if they were good enough for Mr. Keith they would be for me too. I am glad you didn't follow along, you can bet I will be trying magnum primers with 2400 in my .44 mag & .45 colt loads with 2400 real soon. Thanks again!

mdlfork

Racer X · « **Reply #16 on:** July 17, 2010, 08:33:09 AM »

Ken,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I have seen your posts on this site and you have credibility as someone who would be knowledgeable on this subject.
I shoot a 45 Blackhawk with a 7-1/2" barrel, and I mainly shoot two loads: (1) 18.5 grains of 2400 with a 270 SAA cast, and (2) 20.3 grains of 2400 with a 250 grain XTP.

So far, I have only tried Winchester and to a lesser extent, Federal LP primers. My chronograph session of the 18.5 grain 270 SAA load comparing Winchester and Federal LP primers showed statistically insignificant differences in Average Velocity (~ 1240 FPS) or Extreme Spread (~ 70-80 FPS). Unfortunately, I did not have time that day to test accuracy differences in the two primers.

I have never tried magnum primers with 2400 because of the Speer Handbook's guidance that current Alliant 2400 is slightly faster than 2400 of old. However, your comment about magnum primers for top-end jacketed loads is interesting and something I am considering with the 250 XTP, which I load near max.

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #17 on:** July 17, 2010, 11:57:14 AM »

I use CCI 350's with the 250 XTP and 19.5 gr. of 2400 in Ruger .45 Colts. Best .45 Colt load I've ever used in my Rugers.

Lee Robinson · « **Reply #18 on:** August 21, 2010, 05:48:10 PM »

I had a model 97 in 45 colt...and its fit and finish was awesome, but unfortunately after trying MANY MANY loads I got rid of it because it wasn't near as accurate as my Rugers. Maybe I was lucky with my Rugers, but both are TACK DRIVERS with MANY LOADS. After selling my FA, I sent both Rugers to John Linebaugh to further improve what was working great already with trigger jobs, oversized base pins, freewheel cylinders, and a few other things and still had less money in each gun than the FA by about $500 each or so. I have no hard feelings towards FA, but for the money I think one can do much better getting a nice ruger customized.

BTW, I have a FA hat that I would send to someone if they want it. Just send me an email at chimerakennels@msn.com and I will send it to someone since I don't have a FA anymore.

ole 5 hole group · « **Reply #19 on:** August 22, 2010, 09:45:39 AM »

Lee, how fast did you push? What I've found is the Model 97 needs a lot of steam to shoot half way decent because of their slow (1:24) twist rate. With the beartooth 325 grain hardcast I had to go to 1,125fps to get under an inch. Used 21 grains of H-110 and the WLP primer to achieve the 1,125fps. I believe the test load used by FA is a 240 grain Sierra pushed by 26 grains of H110 and a CCI350 primer.

Lee Robinson · « **Reply #20 on:** August 22, 2010, 11:23:15 AM »

I shot several bullets, including 250 Hornady XTP, 260 grain speer, and 270 grain keith (the keith required me to trim the brass for overall length to fit the shorter FA cylinder). I used 2400, 4227, and H110 powders. Speeds varied from 1100-1250+, with most being between 1150-1200 depending on the load. Nearly every load I tried worked in my Rugers and although I saw momments of promise with the FA, I never obtained consistent tight groups with the gun. After burning up about $400 or so in different loads I figured...it ain't worth it. I still didn't even have a load worked out for the gun. I found someone that wanted it and they had something I wanted, so we made a trade and I have never looked back about it. If memmory serves me correctly, the 260 gr speer shot the best and the hornady the worst. I also had some lighter "plinking" loads that were around 900 fps and they didn't group any better or worse than the hotter loads.