Author Topic: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun  (Read 87322 times)

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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #60 on: July 19, 2010, 11:40:15 PM »
     First of all not much happened on this project over the weekend.  Family comes first.  However I did get a 2" dia. round of 1018 steel, 11" long on the lathe and faced both ends and center drilled both with a #5, so my round of tube steel is ready for shaping.  Also, I really appreciate the brainstorming session with Victor3 who is an accomplished machinist.  I am beginning to see how his idea of an externally v-grooved breech block could pay big dividends by saving precious time.  After studying the drawings and doing some rough calculations, I can see 2-3 hours saved on the prototype and at least 15 hours saved if we make 10 of these, enough time to be significant.

     When I complained that ball detent hole drilled from the rear face of the breech would be too long, about 2", I was wrong.  Actually it's only 1.75" from the rear breech face to the center of the breech block and that minus .500" for one-half the block dia. means you only need  1.25" depth of thread to allow the ball detent assy. to seat properly.  Even though Victor's claim that regular 10-32 taps were 2.5" long is true, only 1.760" of that length will cut full dia. threads, ( I measured the 5 that we have in stock).  Fortunately, that depth will do the trick in this case.

     Unfortunately I now have two days worth of company financial and tax crap to deal with, so on Thursday evening the turning of the tube will occur and that and the new breech block positioning mechanism drawings should be done by Saturday.  I just wanted to assure everyone that we were not going to sleep on this project and since it all has to be done after work, the hours necessary to do it correctly are sometimes hard to find.  Even Mike is showing increased interest.  I caught him hovering over the lathe yesterday making slobbering sounds, like some demented bat creature.  I had to get a sharpened wooden stake and yell, "Back you fiend!! That's my job!!"   He gave me an evil look, but did back off after he eyeballed that sharp Stake.

And so it goes,

Tracy and Mike
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Zulu

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2010, 03:55:23 AM »
Judging from the time of your post I can see you are burning the candle at both ends.
Zulu
Zulu's website
www.jmelledge.com

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #62 on: July 21, 2010, 10:05:17 PM »
   Zulu,   Mike and I consider making our seacoast cannons to be more of a calling than a career.  When you're  passionate about what you do for a living, not only does your humor improve, but long hours are no longer the grind that they used to be.

     Not much to report on the Krupp Howitzer, but we got a bunch of tax and financial stuff completed and some real work too.  I did a bunch of chiseling today on the Brooke platform and the glue-ups from yesterday look fine and are sturdy.  Mike is machining the precise parts which go together to make the upper carriage axles and the reciprocating handle actuated capstan wheel elevation gear.  In this pic I'm doing a little quality control work before the parts are assembled for a function check.

     The reason we don't use a ratchet mechanism which was certainly around in the 1850s and 1860s is the fact that double acting ratchets came along much, much later.  Back in those days a ratchet was a one-direction device.  Like the Roach Motel insect capture device where you can go in but you can't go out, each of the ratchets on a Garrison gin will allow the drum to rotate in one direction only so you need two ratchets with the second installed in a reverse configuration to allow both up and down movements of the artillery tube or carriage being lifted.  The same would apply for elevation and depression gear for a cannon tube on it's carriage, but in this application, two devices would take up too much room, be more complicated and would be awkward to use.

     The elevation mechanism hub, located on a 3" diameter heavy elevation screw in the original photo of our gun in Battery Marion, on Sullivan's Island, South Carolina, guarding Charleston's outer harbor, is just big enough to contain one mechanism.  Although it's impossible to prove, we believe that a capstan wheel mechanism was used, because it can be used in a bi-directional fashion.  The reciprocating handle is merely a way to make it quick and easy to use in either direction, elevating or depressing the tube.

      Come what may, tomorrow evening I am machining the Krupp Howitzer tube.

Tracy and Mike


The parts of our elevation gear have never been shown before.  The 'clam-shell housing' is not a simple assembly to machine and the housing extension with it's captured, reciprocating handle is sculptured like the original casting was, but we make it with the artistic use of small, half-round files and needle files.  Here I measure the capstan wheel barrel diameter.  This barrel goes into the eccentric through hole in the flanged elevation gear transom collar which provides support for the capstan housing and the 1/2" brass elevation screw and the 100 pound tube which has 12 Lb. preponderance.


Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline little seacoast

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #63 on: July 22, 2010, 05:37:40 AM »
That's a very serious carriage in the background. Any chance of a couple of pictures of that?
America has no native criminal class except Congress.   Sam Clemens

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2010, 05:59:55 PM »
     Little seacoast,   I have posted a few as we have worked on this and that part, but never 6 of the following set of 9.  These are all there are so far. At the end of August this upper carriage, the chassis and the platform will all be complete on the four that we are building presently, then we can make some tubes and sights and breech straps and trunnion rings, etc.  Krupp tube due on Sat. night.

Tracy and Mike


One of two steel, carriage wood cabinets we have.  Although the white oak on top and the Indian Rosewood are stickered, the closed doors of the cabinet keep air-flow to a minimum and heavy wax end treatment keeps a substantial Rosewood investment safe from sudden changes in humidity.  The Indian Rosewood is authentic for the two presentation grade, 150 Pdr. Armstrong Gun carriages shipped to the Confederacy from England in 1864.  The highly visible upper carriage was gorgeous, polished, Rosewood and the Chassis was solid Mahogany.  Our's will be as well.




Squaring up lots of white oak on the jointer lately for the heavy, triple rail, white oak Chassis of the 7" Treble-Banded Brooke Seacoast and Navy Rifle.




The front and rear transoms of the first prototype upper carriage for the Brooke rifle.  These were made of red oak which is not water proof like white oak, before we found our white oak supply. These parts show a little hardware necessary for operation of this artillery piece.




Figuring out what these completely hidden parts looked like took hours and hours and hours of thinking, calculating, filing, sketching and machining.  Looking at the rear of this transom, you can see an actuating shaft, which has two hex ends which two handspike wrenches rotate and force a central shoe downward, which lifts the rear of the carriage up, engaging the forward placed wheels and returning the upper carriage and tube to 'Battery' position.  The third rail provides support for the shoe and stiffens the entire Chassis enormously.




The base, the brace, and the support await inspection before assy.  All of the cross-bolt holes are drilled with gun-drills for accuracy.




The set-up for gun-drilling a diagonal cross-bolt hole.  We posted this one before and Swedish Dan knew what the aluminum foil was for.  Do you?




Very important is the wood 'Hook' feature present where the diagonal brace meets the horizontal 'base' piece.  A mechanical lock here is only as good as the wood grain orientation, which has to be as pictured, or shearing occurs upon the first discharge of the piece this supports.




Despite competition from the contents of my shooting box for a nano cannon I built, this view of the Brook's upper carriage gives you a good idea of the variety of hardware those southern artillerists used when fashioning this carriage.  Everything you see is exactly one-sixth scale.




Except for the elevation gear, rear transom lifting gear and finishing, these upper carriages are complete.


Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #65 on: July 23, 2010, 07:09:33 AM »
Are you guys going to build a 150 PDR Armstrong as part of you series of guns?  Did the Armstrong use the Elswick Aiming rifle.  Are you going to make those?


Offline wolff

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #66 on: July 24, 2010, 12:43:20 AM »
 " Brad,   I think I am at least a full generation ahead of your 'Steam Punk' terminolgy, but I was curious, so I Googled it.  Hey, that's the stuff I like!  Tom Swift novels, old steam engine technology with gleaming stainless steel, futuristic, sheet metal.  Art Deco stuff.  'Rocket Man' movies.

     Thanks Brad, now I have a name for the way I see the world.  When completed, the cannon should reflect some element of this.

Top of the Chrysler Building to you!

Tracy"

I'm a big fan of the Anime genre, and you see a lot of Steam Punk motif in it - a terrific G rated movie is "Steam Boy"; worth viewing with/without the kids.  One of my all-time favorite flicks "Blade Runner" has some elements too; though less at steam, and more at punk!
Here's a pic of the light fixture that's hanging over our dining table:  the 2 armored feed wires come right out of the plaster!


Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #67 on: July 24, 2010, 08:58:17 PM »
     Well, we said Saturday night, and least here it is before midnight!  From the photos below, you can see that Mike and I have spent a few hours on the Krupp, actually about 3 hours in total, even including making a few minor changes in the drawing of things that just didn't look right once they were transferred to metal.  You must remember that this is a prototype, and, as such, you get the warts and all with it.  If you are afraid to make changes on a prototype, you will either be extraordinarily slow, or you will produce junk that nobody will like or want.  We will explain what goof-ups we fixed in the photo captions.  How many manufacturers will do that?

     Double D,   No, we will not be making an Elswick Aiming Rifle for the 150 Pdr. Armstrong M.L.R.  Why?  Because they were designed for 1880s and 1890s Breech loaders not 1860s Muzzle Loaders.

     Brad, cool light fixture!  My son is a gamer and loves the Anime genre as well.  I will ask him if he has a copy of Steam Boy.  I Googled it; looks interesting.  I hope that the German CG Artist created a 'Nautilus' image that you like.  I think it's one of the best I have seen.  20,000 Leagues Beneath the Sea is still one of my favorite novels and movies.  Jules Verne was so far ahead of his time it's unbelievable.

Tracy and Mike


Elswick Aiming Rifle sub-calibre device for British 6 Inch QF Naval Guns.  These are small breech loaders, themselves, meant to be inserted into the open breech of a 6" naval gun and loaded with a Vickers or Nordenfelt 1" calibre cartridge which has a identical trajectory for relatively short range (less than 2,000 yards) gunnery training. 






I my opinion this image is CG, computer graphics, at it's best.  Here Capt. Nemo's Nautilus braves some rough weather with large swells and wind-blown, foamy waves.  Love those rivets!  Image by CG Artist Malerwerkst in Germany.




We started by selecting a 2" dia. 1018 round of hot rolled steel and turning the various diameters.  The muzzle journal doesn't look like that on the final tube prototype.  I just didn't see it correctly on the old woodcut or sketch when I made the drawing.  Too small at 1", S/B 1.250", having the same step down in size as the other dias. do.




A 3" section of that 20 feet of 2" I.D., 3" O.D., DOM Mechanical Tubing that I mentioned the other day.  Cut w/bandsaw, face both ends and de-burr and clean with carb. cleaner to prep. for torch expansion and fitting with multi-diameter tube for shrink-fit. 




Ring held at correct height to drop tube in when 4 or 5 thousanths of an inch expansion has occurred. 




Dropped right in and down to bench top.  Let cool 3 minutes and take to sink.




All the way to the sink Mike was hanging on to the breech end and making noises like, "AAh-Oww, oou, oou, AAh, ooo".  I had the water running cold when he arrived!




After center-drilling with a #3, pilot-drilling with a 1/4", 2" deep, beveling with a #6 center-drill, then we did as the photo illustrates, false muzzle drilled to 3/4" depth with a 3/4" drill bit for a realistic appearance.  Firecracker bore will be drilled with a 12" long, 5/16"dia. aircraft drill.




Final muzzle facing done with several light cuts as the muzzle is unsupported.




The final configuration of the forward three-quarters of the Krupp Howitzer.  See how we heat shrunk on a turned band for the muzzle dia. journal to bring it to 1.250" dia. from an undersize 1.000" dia.   We also cut the length back to .850" long from 1.000" long.  shoulder of the next one up was changed too, reduced in length by .100".  The dia of the reinforce was reduced by .150".  It's a proto; changes are expected!




TK casts a critical eye on the Krupp tube after it cooled down. The drawing is that one of the British, 150 pounder Armstong Rifle, M 1864, that we did in 2006 and this is our next major project.










Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #68 on: July 25, 2010, 05:37:20 AM »
LoC para 4737 of 1-6-1885 (approved 6-9-1884) introduced the muzzle loading unit.  But you are right they weren't introduced until the 1880's.  I confess my interest in the Elswick isn't cannon oriented.



Back to the Krupp. Any particular reason for the sweated on band?  If I understand the picture right, the stepped piece in the back ground is dropped through the heated band. Is there a hole in the blocks supporting the band to allow the barrel to extend through.  The Illusion extend by the cooling burning fingers  picture is the barrel  doesn't extend out the end of the band. Can you clarify? 


Offline RocklockI

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #69 on: July 25, 2010, 06:32:07 AM »
Ellswick aimming rifle ? It looked like the remains of the north korean torpedo that was recovered . ::)

Good work Tracy I'm on my way to inspect your work ,and try a save this poor under nourished piece of sliver wood i have .
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #70 on: July 25, 2010, 10:03:04 AM »
     Double D.   I knew there was some reason that propelled DD to bring up the Elswick.  Look at the dashed line part of the Elswick application drawing to the muzzle loading cannon.  Looks like a Martini to me!!  And we all know how much of a Martini rifle addict Double D is.  What does the dashed line mean here, DD?  Does it mean the artillery unit that needed one of these training devices would have to dissasemble one of it's soldiers issue rifles to make the assembly complete, because a Martini action was not issued with the basic Elswick Aiming device. 

     Those blocks are rifle barrel wrench jaws which have a partial hex shape in the center which allows the cannon tube to go through the ring and through the blocks, clear to the bench top.  Put your glasses on, then look very carefully at the kitchen sink picture.  Beyond the water spray is the outline of the Krupp tube.  Later photos show it really does extend through the reinforce and it locked up tight with only .0025" interference fit with the 'shrink-fit process'.

     All I know, RocklockI, is that the tiller in question appears to have lots of sapwood in it.  Maybe the back lot of the freight yard is it's origin after all?

Tracy

Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #71 on: July 25, 2010, 12:33:48 PM »
     Double D.   I knew there was some reason that propelled DD to bring up the Elswick.  Look at the dashed line part of the Elswick application drawing to the muzzle loading cannon.  Looks like a Martini to me!!  And we all know how much of a Martini rifle addict Double D is.  What does the dashed line mean here, DD?  Does it mean the artillery unit that needed one of these training devices would have to dissasemble one of it's soldiers issue rifles to make the assembly complete, because a Martini action was not issued with the basic Elswick Aiming device. 

Never say never, I won't drift this topic further, I'll open another thread on the Martini Henry use with the Elswick and Ewart aiming devices.

     
Quote
Those blocks are rifle barrel wrench jaws which have a partial hex shape in the center which allows the cannon tube to go through the ring and through the blocks, clear to the bench top.  Put your glasses on, then look very carefully at the kitchen sink picture.  Beyond the water spray is the outline of the Krupp tube.  Later photos show it really does extend through the reinforce and it locked up tight with only .0025" interference fit with the 'shrink-fit process'.

I had to put on the rose colored glasses and to see the barrel in spray.

     

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #72 on: July 26, 2010, 09:20:19 PM »
     This evening Gary's wife, Mike, Bruce and I helped Gary celebrate Gary's Birthday, the big double nickle.  He was in fine humor and brought both cannons and beer to his party, always a great combination!  We had cannon fire with our dinner and cake, drinking came a little later and story telling followed during the consumption of libations. 

Happy Birthday, Gary!

Mike and Tracy
















Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Spuddy

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #73 on: July 27, 2010, 01:05:07 AM »
Happy birthday Gary.  Nice Krupp.

Offline dan610324

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #74 on: July 27, 2010, 03:27:30 AM »
ooooohh  you are a little ......
you should be ashame
didnt tell me   :'(
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #75 on: July 27, 2010, 07:25:08 AM »
Thank you ,it was a very nice time . Sorry Dan .

The Krupp is awsome ! talk about a chunk , I think it may have caused some to surrender on sight .

Better get your orders in guys demand may out pace gun numbers .
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Double D

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #76 on: July 27, 2010, 08:47:42 AM »
55???!!!   Boot!

Happy B-day Gary.

Sure a lot of smoke coming out of that Krupp for a firecracker!

Offline KABAR2

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #77 on: July 27, 2010, 04:03:37 PM »
 
 
Elswick Aiming Rifle sub-calibre device for British 6 Inch QF Naval Guns.  These are small breech loaders, themselves, meant to be inserted into the open breech of a 6" naval gun and loaded with a Vickers or Nordenfelt 1" calibre cartridge which has a identical trajectory for relatively short range (less than 2,000 yards) gunnery training.  






Now you making me jealous.... all I have is the 1" Nordenfelt round.........


Great looking Krupp!


And HAPPY BIRTHDAY GARY!
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #78 on: July 27, 2010, 06:51:29 PM »


With this crew I may run the somali pirates clean away . Today we stepped the mast , killed about 250 wasps by Mikes count . Tracy spotted them in the foot' of the unstepped mast . As soon as we got the tarp off of her ....there they were .....not too happy . My first attempt at a firery death resulted in lot of dead and singed wasps .....

what never occured to me was .....there was 200 ,by mikes count left and they came jumping out like the screaming eagales over normandy ! yea no kiddin ...... nobody said it but everybody did it ......

RUN AWAY ! So after a quick trip to the store for wasp death in a can ..... WE WON BIG TIME . ;D Oh ouhhoyaa

All along the next hour the scouts were coming back and zooming around .... Nobody got stung because Mike said "Dont swat them" to tracy ...........

Shes 'near ship shape , now as soon as I get back from Houston and a photo op with Zulu Big Head , The Big head down south conferance ! ;D You guys can be the judge ......... ;D she'll be finished and sailing .

I think Tracy bighead has a 70 mile + open water adventure planned ...... hummmmm sure lets go ! 8)

FortAfrigginsomewhere he must see from the bombarded side ...... Dry Tourtugas iirc .....?

ETA This 17 foot daysailer looks like a cannoe with those two pieces of 'rail meat standing there .

There is 400 lbs of ballast in here ........god only knows what it will be with my 'crew on board .
2nd eta there are NO cannons ;D on board . Next year will be adifferant story !



 
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #79 on: July 27, 2010, 08:35:52 PM »
What?  No boat howitzer?  No swivel guns?  No pivot guns?

For shame.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline dan610324

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #80 on: July 27, 2010, 09:58:31 PM »
at least you got to have a "tiny" 13" mortar
ok the phaxion could be a good choice if you dont got any 13"
and of course a pair of the 1660 in swivel mounts

how long does it take to sail that thing to somalia ??
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #81 on: July 28, 2010, 11:33:15 AM »
Weather permitting , forever .

Even 60-70 miles out to sea to the fort Tracy wants to see is not going to happen either . 'We could go to some particular harbor (JB)' and sail all around .

The Bannana Boat is built very tough and WILL have a swivel gun on her soon . One on each side Loverens mounted on swivels in the oar locks  ;D

"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #82 on: July 29, 2010, 10:15:33 PM »
    Thanks for the compliments guys.  That is quite a volume of smoke issuing from the Krupp, Double D.  I'm sure you noticed that the cloud surrounds the piece on it's test stand at the north edge of "Bombardment Meadows", Gary's backyard.  Because we had a bit of trouble getting a 1/4" pilot drill all the way through the tube, we got to make the thing all over again!  That piece of drill must have been flawed, because it twisted off absolutely square with the axis of the hole!  

     Oh well, we made all the steps, drilled the bore to full size and started the drilling of the sliding breech block hole in the breech behind the reinforce, all in 2 hours, not 3 like before.  Some of that smoke was coming from the left side of the breech where we slid the incomplete block over to get a fuze into the chamber where we placed 10 grains of FFg. and a firecracker.  The cracker shot out to the middle of the test range, despite the incomplete closure of the breech block and smoke surrounded the howitzer.

     That's not our Elswick Aiming device, KABAR2, just a pic; sure is an interesting device though.  We will make it to that fort in the Dry Tortugas WSW of Key West, Florida.  It's one of the largest masonry forts in North America, containing more that 3 million bricks.  They called it Fort Jefferson when Dr. Samuel Mudd associated with the escape of John Wilkes Booth was confined there after the Lincoln assassination, and that is still it's name today 145 years later.  Maybe we won't go there in Gary's 17 footer, but Mike, the "Old Salt" is determined and is looking for day-sailers for rent now.  I looked at the prices per day and I hope he plans on winning the Lotto!

     Some pics of tonight's work on the Krupp are posted below.

     Sorry Victor, we are so fixated on the $200 or less price point, we simplified the sliding breech even further, setting aside your ball detent assys. for some future project.  We are going with a dead simple set-screw going forward from the breech's rear, just left of the central striker and pull knob assy. The rounded cylinder tip will go into a 'U'-shaped groove milled into the sliding breech block cylinder, allowing the breech block to move left and right along a transverse groove and rotate 180 degrees to the capping and loading positions and 90 degrees to the "Fire" position.  

Enjoy the photos,

Tracy and Mike

Criterion boring head allows a 1" drilled hole to be cleaned up as it is precisely bored slightly oversize to 1.005".  The sliding breech block is turned on the lathe to 1.0043".  .0007" clearance makes for a no-rattle, but easy sliding fit.




Here we tap the hole 1/4-28 in the newly-turned breech block for the #11 percussion-cap nipple threads.  




Nipple screwed into the breech block.  It's in the center of the blocks final length.  What you see is extra material for holding the block in a rotary table chuck during future groove milling ops.




A 'shell-tray' is milled in the breech block's right end.




Shell-tray is visible here, although not yet in the loading position.




Loading position with shell-tray aligned with the cannon's bore.  Milled relief cut behind the block on the right side of breech will be done next.




Block pulled to the left, in the 'Capping' position, with the part of the 90 deg, 'Firing' position groove simulated by black marker.




The block has been rotated 180 degs. and is now in the 'Loading' position, ready for a 5 to 10 grain charge of FFg powder.  The next movement of the block is transverse, to the right along the groove for that purpose until the charge is in the center above the chamber.  A forward 90 deg. rotation aligns the captive powder charge with the back end of the 'shell', in this case, a firecracker.




A portion of the black marker simulated, groove.




The remainder of the 'groove'.

Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Victor3

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #83 on: July 29, 2010, 11:00:03 PM »
 "Sorry Victor, we are so fixated on the $200 or less price point, we simplified the sliding breech even further, setting aside your ball detent assys. for some future project.  We are going with a dead simple set-screw going forward from the breech's rear, just left of the central striker and pull knob assy."

 Heck, I'm not offended. Your configuration provides positive stops and is less prone to fouling/damage than springs & balls. More robust, cheaper to make and will probably feel more like operating a 'real' cannon breech.

 I had a tool designer tell me once...

 "I sleep on my ideas for as long as time permits because my first thoughts on a project are rarely the best. Graphite (pencil marks) is easier to modify than steel."

 Are you gonna stay with the angled finger relief, or use a ball end mill to make a slot to match up with the groove on the end of the block so the cracker can drop straight in?
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #84 on: August 03, 2010, 06:43:12 AM »
Victor3 wrote:
“Are you gonna stay with the angled finger relief, or use a ball end mill to make a slot to match up with the groove on the end of the block so the cracker can drop straight in?”

     The original idea was to use an angled finger relief groove, but trying to get a cracker inserted into the bore’s end was impossible because of the angle of approach.  We decided against relieving or enlarging the bore at the intersection of the bore and the breech block.  We wanted to contain the gas and residue of each firing as much as possible, so we opted for an in-line insertion of the cracker.  But we are getting ahead of the actual chain of events.

    First, we wanted to check the striker assy. off on our list of difficult obstacles to overcome.  We were not disappointed. It was a bear!  Contributing to our misery was the terrible quality of lumberyard AND hardware store springs.  100% junk!  They ALL took a set (stayed shorter after compression) and propelled the striker as if in slow-motion.  We will order the final prototype’s springs and those for the production cannon from Wolf Gunsprings, a company that makes quality gunsprings which have some ‘Spring’ to them.

     Long story short, we now have a breechloading cannon with a functioning Striker assy. and a loading port which allows loading from the side as did the original Krupp Howitzer, M1866.  Getting to that point was a 3 day adventure best explained in pictures.

The Broomfield Cannon Manufactory is almost silent these days, despite frantic activity in the R&D Department.  The chimneys are not belching black smoke; the mules which haul the steel from the canal to the various shops are getting fat.  The 200 ton forge is silent and the Puddling Furnace is cold.

Tracy and Mike


The second striker with more weight for more energy. .500" diameter head, .250" dia. stem. with room for spring.  This one would pop a percussion cap, but the release was unpredictable.  I had visions of sear releases, levers, set-triggers and such.  Mike wanted a real simple release, but, in the end, it's concept of catching the back edge of a milled notch in the stem on the outside of the rear, captive, washer was not reliable because the springs pushed the stem back to the center of the hole.  Despite the angles on both the washer and the stem notch, we could not get it to stay cocked reliably.  On this one we ran out of metal in which to cut more notches!




The concept tried next was a lever-actuated, external release effected by a flat, hardened trigger being withdrawn from a sear notch in the stem.  This got the sear and trigger away from those *^%#*)^* springs!  My contribution was placing the entire striker assy in a can so it could be removed as a module for adjustment or cleaning.  Here we are boring a larger two dia. , 1.000" and .750", hole for the 'Can'.




Here the Can is inserted in the bored hole.  The two screws for those holes keep the striker assy. captive.  A larger, rotating, half-head, screw keeps the Striker Assy Can captive.  It also, being a screw, pushes the Striker Assy forward slightly, taking up any looseness and locking the Breech Block against the rear of the Bore for more a more complete gas seal just prior to Firing.




The 'Can' before the end was bored to make it conform to the cylindrical Breech Block.




Yes, yes, I know; we are using a wood-worker's clamp to hold the Can in place for boring.  Please remember that gunsmiths, even good ones, are allowed to use whatever they can find in order to get a job done.  Quality No-Twist clamps beyond 12" are obscenely expensive!




What the side-loading port looks like, ready for cracker loading.  Oops, my pic of the bored Can end is lost, so use some imagination.  Without something for scale, you can't see what we discovered is wrong now.




Still hard to tell, but at 1.5" long, the cracker is impossible to align for bore insertion (see next photo), so we found another 'Can' modification necessary.  Focus is not perfect, but you can see the angle which stops insertion.




A groove is milled in the 'Can'.  This and a set-screw with a cylinder-tip, coming in from the breech's bottom, allows the Can to slide backwards .500" which is more than the .400" we needed to fit the projectile.




Viola!  The firecracker, she fits!  Finally, we can drop an air-burst projectile in this breech loading, black powder cannon without any hassle.




     More later, as I get a chance to take in-focus photos of all the breech parts laid out and a detailed disassembly of the striker as well, which will show Exactly how this piece is fired.  If we work steadily, maybe we can show the breech block rotation and transverse movement groove and guide pin assembly too.  We will.
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Zulu

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #85 on: August 03, 2010, 08:29:21 AM »
 :o :o :o :o :o
You guys are truely amazing!
Zulu
Zulu's website
www.jmelledge.com

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #86 on: August 03, 2010, 08:58:18 AM »
Tracy that looks real good ! I guess the design is evolving naturally .  ;D
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Spuddy

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #87 on: August 03, 2010, 09:48:09 AM »
Impressive. I am going to have to find a supply of air burst ordinance.

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #88 on: August 03, 2010, 01:14:45 PM »
$200, eh?
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #89 on: August 05, 2010, 12:05:23 AM »

     Well, we finally had the time to finish the Krupp Howitzer tube.  Mike remade the brass cocking knob with T-handle, because he squashed it a bit getting the first T-handle installed and made it a bit longer to separate it from the Striker Assy. Can release handle to the right.  We milled the raceway grooves in the rotary Breech Block and turned a .25” dia. journal on the left side and put a handle through it to facilitate turning and pushing the Breech Block to it’s Capping, Loading and Firing positions.  Then we made some Trunnions with Rimbases and applied them to the tube about half an inch forward of the balance point, without welding.

     Thanks, Zulu!  If we were just half as quick as you are, as you make your wonderful creations in wood, we could actually make some money doing this work!

     Gary, it’s amazing that we have made such progress without your constant good-natured prodding.  I am the first to admit that, without your excellent ideas on the firing mechanism, we probably would have left this concept alone with few results.  Victor3 and KABAR2  helped us a bunch, but you were first.  Thank you.

     Thanks, Spuddy.  Maybe your neighbors to the north have some.  As youngsters, we used to get ‘Cannon Crackers’ from Canada and they were really impressive with their full oz. charge of fine grained black powder enclosed by an inch diameter, hard cardboard tube, about 5 inches long.  My friend Peter Herron and I had lots of fun blowing his families’ milk box up with those, then we’d tape it together and blow it up again!

      George, George, George,  YE of so little faith!  Please remember all I wrote was that we were striving very hard to keep the price closer to $200 than $300 or $400.  Until we finish the carriage and then do a bunch of process time calculations, we just won’t know what it will be.  A few of the machine set-ups are fairly precise, so onesie, twosies are OUT!  It’s way to expensive to change those set-ups for very small numbers.  In batches of 10 or 20 units, we can realize some significant time savings per unit which could possibly make 199, 229 or 249 possible.  In a few days we will know and post the price point which will be good for one year, minimum.

Enjoy the photos.  Hey, give me a pat on the back; they are in-focus this time!

Tracy and Mike


The 'Can' release lever is rotated CCW so the Striker Assy. Can can be slid backward, the Allen Wrench turns the 'Can' Retaining Set-Screw to allow the unit to be withdrawn from the Krupp's breech.




Striker Assy. in two-dia. Can is revealed.




Two externally mounted, Striker Assy. Retaining Screws are removed to allow the Assy. to be withdrawn from the 'Can'.  Details of the assembled Striker Assy. can now be seen.




The Striker Assy. partially disassembled.  The small spring goes around the firing pin, but under the larger spring.  The square notched, quarter-washer mates with the 'D'-shaped firing pin and the three-quarter washer to become the trigger and sear unit.  Brass Cocking Piece is unscrewed from the Firing Pin.




The Sear (washer) Unit around the Firing Pin.




The seven piece-parts of the Striker Assy.  Two sub-assys. are included here.  There are two pieces in the Sear and two pieces in the Cocking Piece.




The Firing pin in the cocked position.  The Cocking Piece when screwed onto the Firing Pin end allows rotation of the Firing Pin when it's groove is draw into alignment with the 'D'-shaped sear hole.  Partial rotation puts the Striker Assy. into a 'Cocked' condition.  When the handle on the brass Cocking Piece, the 'Trigger', is pressed downward, the 'D'-shaped Firing Pin aligns with the 'D'-shaped Sear hole, allowing the Firing Pin to be propelled forward by the Striker Springs, initiating the percussion cap and firing the cannon.




     Pics of the Breech Block groove milling and Trunnion installation will follow on Thursday nite.  The work is done, the pics taken.  They have to be organized and captions written and then the tube construction will be complete.  T&M




Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling