Author Topic: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun  (Read 87374 times)

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Offline KABAR2

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #150 on: August 16, 2010, 06:03:25 PM »
Quote
M&T Wrote:

 "if KABAR2 ever found out we added a French elevation mechanism to the Krupp gun, he might be tempted to Start the Franco-Prussian War all over again."

Ze French probably ztole it from der Germans in ze first place! Und if I did start ze Franco-Prussian war again ve vould be Marching in Paris by Noon!

Vere did I put mine'n Pickelhalben !

Strange..... every time I start talking like this I have a sudden urge for Bratwurst und Sauerkraut......  ::) 
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline gulfcoastblackpowder

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #151 on: August 16, 2010, 07:11:06 PM »
Why are zie Paris streets lined with trees?  So vie kan march in zie shade!

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #152 on: August 17, 2010, 07:27:41 PM »
Mike came up this evening , he brought the Krupp up for a bombardment medows try out !

This Krupp is the coolest thing there is ..... no kidding this thing works great ! with the tiny little 5 grain chamber it can launch a cracker 20 yds easy  .

It is VERY COOL .

Gary
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #153 on: August 18, 2010, 04:50:38 PM »


Pix of smoke, flame and pop!?   ;D
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
Chief of Smoke, Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery
U.S.Army Retired
N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #154 on: August 18, 2010, 09:56:54 PM »
     RocklockI,  thanks for your kind comments.  Wish I could have been there, but dinner with daughter comes first.  It sounds like you guys had fun with the Krupp, maybe we can do it again this Saturday and get a few good action pics and a film clip or two?  I would love to do a Morko firing movie too.  Colt silhouettes at 21 feet??

     Tim, smoke and Fire, YES!!  Just as soon as every detail is completed on the Krupp.  I bandsawed 40 cheek plates today, I guess we are in production, without any formal announcement.  Since the list is at 14 now, I guess the first batch will be 20, twice as much as we expected.  We have ordered enough hardware (screws and bolts) for 25 units, just in case.  Should get them tomorrow.  The elevation gear was completed by Mike yesterday, but unfortunately we can't fit a crank in there, so a 'T'-handle was fashioned instead.  We have pretty much decided to do the Krupps first and finish the Brookes later.  When you need cash flow, you usually need it now!  Such is the case here.

     Gulfcoast and KABAR2,  you guys are bad, very, very BAD!  Keep it up.

Tracy and Mike
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #155 on: August 20, 2010, 06:13:14 PM »
     Thank you for your continued interest via email.  We have added two more names to the list in the past 2 days.  Mike and I have decided to make the present batch 20 pieces.  I doubt we will ever go over 30, but you just never know.  In the past few days we have finished testing the elevation gear which works very well and is reliable.   We de-scaled 120 pounds of 1/4" plate steel in a big tub full of vinegar, Thank's for a great idea Double D.!  Today we picked up 20 feet of new 1018 round which had been left out in the rain for 3 weeks and rusted.  We got it for 80 cents a pound.  Hernando, our pal at the surplus yard tipped us off on that one.  We always tip these guys $10 bucks and it really pays off 2 or 3 times a year.  In Denver, the going price is twice that and $3.00 to $4.50 per pound for new alloy steel. Kind of high, but no transport charges for us, just gas for Mike's classic 1980 Ford F 250.

     We hope to do some shooting this weekend, but who knows, it's early yet.  Whether we go or not we will show you guys our display of alternative ammo for the Krupp.  It's very amusing.  Enjoy the pics.

Mike and Tracy


120 pounds of hot rolled steel plate loaded with foundry scale called "furnace finish".  60 grit on a 4.5" angle grinder won't remove it!  Mike pours the last of 3 gallons of white vinegar over the steel completely covering it. 




A few bubbles come up within one hour, but over night and during today a regular froth of bubbles amassed over the steel and we found after 24 hours that all the scale was dissolved!  We poured out the spent vinegar and rinsed the steel three times and then added one-half of a large 2 pound box of baking soda and covered it with clean water.  Neutralization of the acid was complete in one hour.  After that hose them down with moisture displacing oil; WD 40 is great for this and short-term rust prevention.




We got all 26 of the 9.220" long rounds for the barrel cut today...............................................at the steel yard!  We aren't stupid, you know!  $1.00 per ain't bad at all.




Maximum elevation is 30 degs.




This is what the elevation mechanism looks like when it's run out to support the barrel forward in the 30 deg. position.




The pivot block is run in to the 2 deg. position.




You can see how far back the pivot block is at 2 degs. elevation.  Also the new 'T'-handle to raise and depress the tube.  A crank would not fit on this howitzer.




The front tip of the elevation leadscrew pokes out of the front transom plate.


Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #156 on: August 20, 2010, 07:06:55 PM »
...add Olive oil, quartered tomatoes, onions slivers and sliced cucumbers; sprinkle with feta cheese for nice lovely shopska salad.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #157 on: August 21, 2010, 06:04:57 AM »
      O.K. wise guy, what about the unique elevation gear Mike slaved over for 4 days, while I was cutting out parts on the bandsaw?

Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Div Arty

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #158 on: August 21, 2010, 09:52:04 AM »
Tracy, would you call that a mechanical quoin? ::)

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #159 on: August 21, 2010, 12:50:08 PM »
    Please remember, Ron, that we are in the modern industrial era here.  The Krupp 1866 seacoast gun certainly would not have had one and neither do we, but we see your point, the similarity in looks.  Actually we think the correct terminology for Mike's elevation mechanism is this:  'A Screw-Actuated, Fulcrum Contact, Sliding, Elevation Mechanism'.  Nobody even noticed that we including another 4 hole bolt pattern, absolutely Free-of-Charge!  That's the trouble with these Krupp cannon makers, they are perfectionists and quickly saw the unbalanced nature of the 2nd prototype design.  With a shop-made fixture we can drill this pattern in less than 5 minutes; it only takes 1 minute to get the little bolts into it.  All the fasteners we bought are stainless steel, so they will look great, with a striking contrast against the deeply blued surfaces and will resist tarnishing if your gun is actually used for firing.

     We are enthusiastic about getting this piece into full production.  We have received all the fasteners and small pin hardware and set-screws and have bought all the steel and brass we need for 20 Krupp Howitzers.  Just a few more drawing details need to be worked out and that will signal the start.  One big benefit the owners will receive, because of the fact that Mike and I are both perfectionists, is the redline to the 2nd prototype drawing that occurred yesterday. 

     Mike was fiddling with the loading procedure for firecrackers and noticed that 1/8 inch more length in the loading port would really ease the actual firecracker loading process tremendously.  So, we changed the length of the port from 1.680" to 1.880", figuring if an increase of .125" would ease projectile loading, an increase of .200" would make it dead simple.  Of course this change causes changes in the length of other features like Over-All-Length.  The tube's O.A.L. goes from 8.850" to (9.150").  The 'redline' dimension (new dimension) is called the 'Resultant' dimension.  The length of the striker must change too and a more powerful 20# spring will replace the 18# current one.  The new gun springs work great and we fortunately bought a bunch of 20#, .50" dia. ones anticipating that we would want to increase the Striker's power a bit.  I can't see any more changes after next Thursday unless spectacular improvement can be proven!

And so it goes, product improvement is Fun!

Tracy and Mike
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Zulu

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #160 on: August 21, 2010, 01:44:02 PM »
Mike And Tracy,
These are incredible!  I can't see how you are letting them go for such a reasonable price.  I only wish I had half the talent.
Unfortunately, I can't afford one right now.  They are awesome. :o :o
Zulu
Zulu's website
www.jmelledge.com

Offline Double D

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #161 on: August 21, 2010, 05:02:37 PM »
      O.K. wise guy, what about the unique elevation gear Mike slaved over for 4 days, while I was cutting out parts on the bandsaw?

Tracy

Imaginative, inventive, creative are such common traits for Mike, that I become complacent...sorry Mike.

Offline Soot

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #162 on: August 22, 2010, 02:56:49 AM »
This gun is too cool.
I'm in, email sent.

Offline nematode

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #163 on: August 22, 2010, 01:52:45 PM »
Wow I don't know much about cannons but I have some art and sculpture background. That Krupp cannon replica is insane. The lines and profile conjur a sense of great power. Beautiful piece.

Offline gulfcoastblackpowder

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #164 on: August 22, 2010, 06:06:57 PM »
It certainly is a very nice piece.  I'm extremely tempted.  The main thing keeping me from getting on the list is that I think they forgot to make the barrel the full length (I prefer the long gun version).  Still, I may break down and get one when I see the finished production version.  I'd love to see an add on option of a barbette carriage.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #165 on: August 22, 2010, 09:54:55 PM »
     Thank you Soot and Cat Whisperer for ordering your Krupp 'Firecracker' Howitzers.  Mike and I know you will both have lots of enjoyment in shooting them!  Thanks for your generous comments and support.  If anyone else is wanting one of these guns, the window of opportunity is closing quickly.  Our shop space is very limited and will only allow us to make 20 of these at any one time.  I did miscount when I last tallied the orders so we have 14, not 16 of the available slots filled as of today.  We will NOT be making more of these for about three years, if ever again.  A word to the wise about availability  should be sufficient.

     Zulu, thank you for your kind comments.  Now about talent, if we had half of your woodworking talent, we could do this work standing on our heads and spitting nickels! 

     Skip77,  we agree with you that a great sense of power is projected by this small package.  Glad you like it!

     Gulfcoastblackpowder,   We didn't forget anything, but instead used our powerful democratic system to chose a version that most people liked best.  To promote the lower cost per feature and detail, this batch of 20 can have no options, but rather a unique combination of robust, powerful looks and precise, close tolerance, loading and firing mechanisms which can defy high prices, because of a well-thought-out-design which responds well to efficient methods of production.   We like your idea of a barbette carriage, actually a chassis, which is compatible and can be integrated with the present, upper carriage we are making now.  Mike and I really love these, because they work so well in seacoast fortress locations within the fort's walls or in a separate, water-battery.  At the end of the run of 20 we might make a few of these available to any owner who wants a complete seacoast battery.

     My goodness, Double D., don't write stuff like that about Mike; if he reads THAT he will become impossible to work with!  A pompous machinist is a bear to work with.  In the old days, about 30 years ago, working for the computer company, Storage Technology, I asked a very large, young, machinist with a huge bushy beard, "Well Bert, what would you do if you won the lottery?"  It was only about one million in those early days.  He said,   "I would quit this place immediately, load my van with drugs, drive down to Florida and throw the best Beach Party they ever saw down there.  I'd get rid of all that money in a week!!"  Then, with his ego really pumped up, he said,   "Those girls have never seen a beard like mine; they would be lining up just to meet me!"  That guy had no self esteem issues at all!  Please DD, don't create a monster!

     On a more serious note, we have received two requests that we go back to the longer cheeks that we showed in a photo about in the middle of page 5.  These were 8.00" long.  We reduced the length by 1.100” which allowed for a steeper start of the big radius behind the trunnions which goes down to the short 10 deg. straight line then to the 12 deg. back edge.  There were two important reasons for this change.  One, it would allow the sliding Breech Block to be accessed for loading at increased elevation of the tube.  Two, it would prevent the striker release T-handle from hitting the base plate if it was dropped or lowered via elevation gear adjustment AFTER THE KRUPP WAS LOADED AND COCKED thereby firing it unexpectedly. 

     We ask that you participate in an informal poll to determine if there are strong sentiments on going back toward a longer cheek.  It would mean another substantial drawing revamp, but if the owners or people who are interested in this howitzer feel strongly about lengthening the cheeks we can do it WITHOUT VIOLATING DESIGN SAFETY which is above all other considerations. 

     The extra cheek length could be had by lengthening the brass Striker Handle .300".  That and the extra breech length of .300" we have already committed to, by making the loading port longer for ease of projectile loading will get us .600”, or the full amount of cheek extension which works out perfectly proportional with the old, woodcut posted today.  We will show through photos the new, longer, 7.50” long cheek version and the former, short, 6.90” long cheek version.  We can’t do the original 8.00” long cheek version, because it violates the principles of Design Safety.  Period.   
     We have also shortened the height of the cheeks on the third prototype by 1/4", and raised the rear of the cheeks by .200” and extended the length of the cheeks to 7.50” by adding a section of material which simulates the extended steel sides,  achieving the "look" of the page 5 version without full 1'' cheek stretching.  We will lose about 2 deg. of elevation off the 30 we now have, but you don’t need 28 degs. for launching crackers or crayons!  5 deg. is all you need for 60 feet of cracker trajectory anyway.

****************** Please take a look at the photos below and be sure to let us know via comments on this thread or PM or email if your vote is for:  Longer or Shorter cheeks.   Thanks. ********************************************

Mike and Tracy

The contemporary woodcut of the 1866 Krupp Seacoast Howitzer that inspired us and continues to guide our design.




The first prototype with the 8.00" long cheeks which we cannot produce due to safety problems explained in the text of this update.




The second prototype with the Short cheeks which are 6.90" in length.  These are also 3.50" high.




This is the third or current prototype with Long cheeks at 7.50" and sides that are 1/4" less in height at 3.25" in the trunnion area and .200 higher on the tails to hide the rear elevation screw bearing-box.




We think the third prototype brings the 'look' of the upper carriage back to this look of the 8.00" long first prototype which had safety issues.




 
     
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Spuddy

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #166 on: August 23, 2010, 01:22:12 AM »
My vote is for the third/current prototype.  I like that it hides the rear elevation screw bearing block.  Great job guys.  I appreciate your persistance in getting this perfect.  I went shopping for crayons the other day. ;D 

Offline little seacoast

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #167 on: August 23, 2010, 03:29:41 AM »
I'm for the current prototype, excellent balance between safety and aesthetics.
An optional barbette carriage later would be welcome too.
America has no native criminal class except Congress.   Sam Clemens

Offline Soot

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #168 on: August 23, 2010, 03:34:10 AM »
I like the current proto.
I was wondering what kind of markings there would be on the barrel/carriage if any, or documentation for the gun.
Will there be a serial # or if it's a limited production, a # of 20 or whatever.

Offline intoodeep

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #169 on: August 23, 2010, 05:09:56 AM »
M & T,

 The Corgis concur with prototype #3. They say "Lower & Longer" is better....  :D
If you make it idiot proof, then, someone will make a better idiot.


Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #170 on: August 23, 2010, 05:13:25 AM »
I prefer the longer cheeks, they present a more pleasing, longer profile.
When you're walking on eggs; don't hop!!

Offline carronader

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #171 on: August 23, 2010, 05:59:41 AM »
Love watching you guys work , and the way you are open to design changes / customer input . Hope you make enough profit to buy a new broom for the janitor , aka Muskrat.
Scottish by birth and by heart.

Offline Spuddy

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #172 on: August 23, 2010, 07:28:29 AM »
Love watching you guys work , and the way you are open to design changes / customer input . Hope you make enough profit to buy a new broom for the janitor , aka Muskrat.

Ever heard the song "Muskrat Love"?

Offline dan610324

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #173 on: August 23, 2010, 09:54:45 AM »
why buying a new broom ??
I dont think he worn out the old one yet

not after reading all the comments that mike and tracy got to clean up after him  ;D
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline nematode

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #174 on: August 23, 2010, 12:25:01 PM »
I like the 3rd prototype too - nothing lost aesthetically at all. The little cannon is a beast for sure. Am I allowed to ask the sale price here or do I need to PM? How many slots are left now? If my questions are redundant please pardon since I have not been able to ready every message in the topic. Has a prototype been fired yet and is there a video somewhere we can watch? Would be very cool to see.

Offline gulfcoastblackpowder

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #175 on: August 23, 2010, 01:20:22 PM »
Am I allowed to ask the sale price here or do I need to PM? How many slots are left now? If my questions are redundant please pardon since I have not been able to ready every message in the topic. Has a prototype been fired yet and is there a video somewhere we can watch? Would be very cool to see.
...      We have just finished calculating the cost of making these Krupp Howitzers.  This allows us to now announce the price to all you who have expressed interest out there.  This price is $249.00 plus $14.00 S&H to U.S. customers.  We regret that these cannon cannot be exported at this time.
...
     This evening Gary's wife, Mike, Bruce and I helped Gary celebrate Gary's Birthday, the big double nickle.  He was in fine humor and brought both cannons and beer to his party, always a great combination!  We had cannon fire with our dinner and cake, drinking came a little later and story telling followed during the consumption of libations. 

Happy Birthday, Gary!

Mike and Tracy
...



That should answer some of your questions. 

I know I'm going to have to pull the trigger on this soon, but I really want to see the final version.  I agree that the 3rd prototype looks good, though I like the idea of having a nice round number of degrees elevation, but I prefer the new look.  I understand the cost benefit of choosing a single design and doing a batch production.  That's really more important than a few of us having preference for one tube length or another.  My fault for not voicing my preference when you asked early on in this thread.  (I was kidding about you guys making it too short, though if you did decide to do a limited long barrel, please let me know)

I'm glad you like the idea of a carriage/chassis, and that there's additional interest from others.  I think that would really make this a complete model.  After seeing some of these carriages at Fort Clinch a week ago, I think they're just about the perfect mount for large gun! 

Is the barrel/carriage going to get your semigloss black treatment?

Offline nematode

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #176 on: August 23, 2010, 04:26:45 PM »
GulfCoast thank you very much - my apology for not being more aware. My next dumb question - does that price include the steel carriage or base (I don't know what to call it) - I ask because the birthday photo appears to have a wood base. Happy Birthday Gary - is this the RockLockI Gary?

Offline gulfcoastblackpowder

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #177 on: August 23, 2010, 05:20:04 PM »
Yes, the wood carriage was just a mock up - the first stage of prototyping/getting the barrel in a form that it could be tested.  The steel one shown in progress is part of the package.  The barbette carriage/chassis I requested would be an add on at an additional price if they choose to produce it.

Also, yes, that is Gary a.k.a. RocklockI.  BTW, Gary...Happy Birthday! (since I can't remember if I ever wished you a Happy Birthday) :D

You really should go through some more of this thread, skip77, especially if you're interested in buying one.  There's a lot of info here, and it would help you to better appreciate the value of their offer as it relates to your interests.

Offline nematode

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #178 on: August 23, 2010, 05:30:44 PM »
GulfCoast - of course you are right. Thank you very much for your help and suggestions. I want one! Is there a way to print out this whole topic? That might be the easiest way for me to read all of it.

Offline gulfcoastblackpowder

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Re: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun
« Reply #179 on: August 23, 2010, 05:34:39 PM »
GulfCoast - of course you are right. Thank you very much for your help and suggestions. I want one! Is there a way to print out this whole topic? That might be the easiest way for me to read all of it.
Look on the bottom right hand corner of your screen, and you will see a [PRINT] button.  Click on it, and you will have the whole thread in text format to print.