Author Topic: Seacoast Artillery to Re-Create Krupp Seacoast Gun (Read 87306 times)

Double D · « **Reply #210 on:** August 25, 2010, 07:41:46 PM »

I haven't seen upgraded bulk pack of crackers with the green cannon fuse . All the legal ones i have found have a paper fuse. They work just fine in my firecracker cannon that is .300 bore, so .312 should be just fine

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #211 on:** August 25, 2010, 10:43:42 PM »

   Since we don't have time to answer everybody's comment, we won't. We found out by researching the crayon situation today, that a .354" dia. bore which is 9mm will be our bore size to accommodate firecrackers, crayons, the eraser end of Ticonderoga pencils, various dried peas, some small beans, etc., etc. The largest dia. I measured was from a box of 64 Crayola Crayons (U.S.A.) sold to me by Target Corporation and was from Lot#2 with a sample size of 7 that I inspected today. One crayon in that particular sample measured .342" and was one of 12 lots (boxes) that I purchased and sampled today from Manufacturers Crayola, Craz-Y-Art (China) and Rose Art (China). That particular one was made by Crayola which ran on the average about .010" to .015" larger than either of the Chinese crayon mfgs.

   We decide to add .012" to that largest size number to handle almost all crayons that you will possibly encounter. Even my grandson's two year old Crayolas measured within the same range as what those manufactured last month measured, .330" to .342". In our opinion a crayon shooter would do well to keep the paper on them, to preclude them melting within your cannon's bore.

   It's pretty obvious that we aim for customer delight, as I just ordered a second gundrill today which will be 9mm, .354" in dia. So despite what Mr. Grumpy, Gary wrote, this will be the one and only option on these Krupp Howitzers. So, once again let us know what size you want your bore to be using the info above. We will put the bore size on the order sheet next to your name. If I do not hear from you the default size will be 9mm or .354".

   We also started the third prototype tube today. We are making these with all 38 dimensional changes, (Redlined dimensions) that were gathered over the last two weeks. Please take a good look at all three prototypes gathered together in a photo below.

   Our thanks to rmagill and Skip 77 for their orders today. There are 6 left now. We will NOT be making any gadgets for these guns. You will be expected to make cleaning tools, boxes, supports, crayon dies, etc. just as thousands have done in the past for various saluting cannon, etc.

Tracy and Mike

Notice how even the trunnion position has changed since the second prototype.

My Grandson's crayons. We sampled them too. 10% sample on all lots (12).

Target store lots sampled.

Crayon lots sampled from Walmart.

Lots from K-mart were sampled.

Measuring the crayons with a micrometer.

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #212 on:** August 26, 2010, 12:51:58 AM »

Are you sure about there being 6 left - last time you updated the number sold it was 14, and 2 more would make 4 left?

You guys are going way out of your way to make people happy! With so many crayons at your disposal now, do you plan on making one in .354" for yourselves?

Does anyone have experience shooting fire crackers out of a 9mm barrel?

Something to add - this new size is quite intriguing. You can get mops and brushes off the shelf at wallymart for 9mm...

Victor3 · « **Reply #213 on:** August 27, 2010, 07:53:10 PM »

Quote from: gulfcoastblackpowder on August 26, 2010, 12:51:58 AM

Does anyone have experience shooting fire crackers out of a 9mm barrel?

I don't (here in CA we can't have them), but if I were to get a cracker cannon I think I'd want a larger bore so there would be more ammo options. A few wraps of masking tape around a cracker would bring it up to bore size. Tape would add some weight and should make for a louder pop when it goes off too.

Are you guys in firecracker-friendly states allowed to roll your own?

Soot · « **Reply #214 on:** August 28, 2010, 02:05:25 AM »

From what I've read, rolling your own firecrackers is a federal crime.

GGaskill · « **Reply #215 on:** August 28, 2010, 12:10:45 PM »

I'm no authority on this but the law limits the amount of explosive in a cracker and I can't see why you would have a problem unless you exceed the legal amount. Having said that, I think the legal amount is something extremely low like 5 grains of flash powder so I can't see why anyone would go to the trouble of rolling their own for that.

Soot · « **Reply #216 on:** August 28, 2010, 03:03:43 PM »

What I read had to do with the local Greek community celebrating something.
They fill toilet paper tubes with powder.
Quite a bit larger than your standard firecracker.

irishman · « **Reply #217 on:** August 28, 2010, 03:49:41 PM »

Someone on this forum, about 3 years ago, told of almost blowing the roof off his dads garage. All it takes is PRESSURE.

BTW, my Black Cats weigh 14 to 16 grains.

Michael

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #218 on:** August 29, 2010, 07:27:45 PM »

Future Krupp Howitzer owners will be happy to learn that we have been working on them from Friday afternoon when all the loose ends in the design were cleaned up and the final drawing was completed. Yesterday Mike produced the second half of the breech end turnings which will become howitzer tubes. Today he started and finished all of the rear elevating gear supports blocks and finished the front half turning on three tubes including all the radii which are numerous. Photos of that operation are posted tonight.

Mike and Tracy

You can see what 12 hours of turning on an engine lathe can produce. Mike used a pedestal grinder and a hard Arkansas slip stone to grind the radius cutting lathe tool you see here. For the small radii, I made one on the drill press with a cheap diamond coated needle file after grinding a 45 deg flat with the pedestal grinder.

Because the 3/8" radius turning tool is a form cutter, lower spindle RPM around 100 is prudent and plenty of high sulfur cutting oil! The smell of that smoke reminds me of "Industry on Parade", a TV show of the early 60s produced in the newsreel format used extensively in WWII.

It looks like someone has been making chips and cannon tubes as well. Mike filled 3 of those those huge heavy duty leaf bags (33 gal.) with mostly purple and blue curls yards long. I worked quietly on laying out carriage cheeks from a carefully cut, steel, master-template and then band-sawing them and then grinding them to size. We are doing 24 units, so 48 cheek pieces are required.

If you are too PC to even consider firing crackers or crayons, we could perhaps offer these 'Glitter Poms' as a powder puff option. the tube would be turned from a large candy cane, of course. There is only one catch to this offer, however, you must be willing to promise to only use such an artillery piece and munitions for the defense of Lilliput by the Royal Regiment of Gingerbread Artillerymen.

A truly nice box for a small signal gun made by Beaufort Naval Armorers which is on the GBO BP&M vendors list. WE really love that Company Logo they developed. The gun enclosed can be viewed on their website and it goes for about 2,000- 3,000 dollars as I recall.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #219 on:** September 01, 2010, 07:17:59 PM »

Yes, we are fully engaged in producing Krupp Howitzers at this time. This post also emphasizes the importance of one machine tool which is essential in a machine shop. The metal-cutting bandsaw does yeoman work in our shop. It is far and away the most frequently used machine tool in the shop. It also sees extensive use in a fabricating and welding shop too. It is absolutely the first machine that someone setting up a metal-working shop should consider buying.

Mike and Tracy

The finish turned tubes now outnumber the partially turned tubes.

Here I am scribing around the master template for the Krupp cheeks. The 1/4" thk. plates with one to six cheek layouts then move to the bandsaw.

The blade is easily guided to the left or right or in between two lines as shown. A stick lubricant is fed into the saw blade every 15 to 20 inches in 1/4" plate material.

The scrap pile next to the bandsaw is immensely useful. Sometimes it provides the stock to make a little part or fixture without a trip to the steel yard or special online or phone ordering. Even large cylindrical solids can be slabbed if you can't find a plate of the particular thickness that you need right now!

The rough shaped cheeks pile up and are ready to go to the 12" Disk Sander next.

The cheek's bottom and the large radius to the left is ground here, then these go to a small fixture on the mill which locates these cheeks for the drilling of two 1/4" holes.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #220 on:** September 02, 2010, 01:30:26 AM »

That silly looking tab at the very top of each cheek piece rough-out is solid material to facilitate quick drilling rather than slow milling and boring of the trunnion yoke. After the next operation, it is sawed and sanded away, leaving the finished yoke and cheek top surface 3.25" from the long bottom edge.

Tracy

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #221 on:** September 02, 2010, 10:25:00 AM »

So, in fine German tradition, is the serial number (or the last digits thereof) going to be stamped into EVERY LAST PART?

It would be in keeping with a long-standing practice.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #222 on:** September 03, 2010, 10:44:08 PM »

Cat Whisperer, do you mean stamp numbers, like these on my 1908 Brazilian contract Mauser, on each separate, Krupp Howitzer part?

Tracy

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #223 on:** September 04, 2010, 09:30:57 AM »

O.K. Gulfcoastblackpowder, you win! You will soon see the Krupp Howitzer in all of it's finally completed glory including the deep gun blue from the professional plating shop which does all of our high dollar seacoast cannons. This very next weekend Mike and I and probably the bronze cannon maker who likes sailboats will go out for a day of Krupp and other cannon shooting and also Canon shooting so we can bring back some pictures for the Calendar Contest. I believe the submission deadline is September 23, 2010.

DD has been reminding us all along, but only yesterday did I take time to read the Contest Rules of which there are a few, but they are easy to understand. Maybe we can fire the SAMCC course with it's two target submission the same day. Wow, a whole day of cannon shooting! We better go someplace cool (temperature) and a place cool to visit also. In Colorado, Camp Hale and it's old U.S.Army Infantry Small Arms Range fits that bill in both respects. It's very close to Leadville, Colorado and is almost as high (10,000 feet above sea level) so it's always 20 degs. cooler than the high plains prairie where we normally go. It's the place where Bob Dole and lots of other mountain troops of the 10th Mountain Division trained in 1943 for the Invasion of Italy and other duties during WWII. With a 12,000 foot mountain as a backstop, it's a pretty safe place to shoot with excellent camping facilities nearby.

Cat Whisperer, do you mean markings like those I just posted, "ON EACH AND EVERY PART"??

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #224 on:** September 04, 2010, 02:51:24 PM »

!!!

If you can't tell, I'm excited! I wish I could be there too. Not only the great fun with cannon and Canon, but I loved Colorado when I was there a few years ago, and I'd also love to be in the cooler temps (today was 101* last time I checked).

I do think the serial numbering you reference is what CW had in mind. While it would be cool (call up seacoast - piece #42 off Krupp#20 broke, how much for a new one?), I don't know that you want to do that much stamping. For me, just a nice clean stamping that references the builder and the lot number (and possibly the model) would be fine by me, though whatever stamping you want to do I'm sure will be tasteful and as historically accurate as possible.

RocklockI · « **Reply #225 on:** September 04, 2010, 03:36:37 PM »

Andy , have you pulled the pin on this yet ? If not you better , they just got another impromtue order by a man who know craftsmanship and oppertunity ,if not cannons . This will be one you may see on ebay sometime .

My new next door neighbor ordered on as well , he's an Army Arty 12 year guy and he looked at it and said ..."sold"....

These 20 will dry up and the be gone . Pifffh like the wind .

Gary

it must have been 65 deg. this morning ,I had to pull my sheet up tight burrrrrr .

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #226 on:** September 04, 2010, 06:41:39 PM »

Quote from: seacoastartillery on September 04, 2010, 09:30:57 AM

Cat Whisperer, do you mean stamp numbers, like these on my 1908 Brazilian contract Mauser, on each separate, Krupp Howitzer part?
...
...
Cat Whisperer, do you mean markings like those I just posted, "ON EACH AND EVERY PART"??

But of course, its tradition - just look at YOUR pictures!!!

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #227 on:** September 04, 2010, 08:18:18 PM »

Quote from: RocklockI on September 04, 2010, 03:36:37 PM

Andy , have you pulled the pin on this yet ? If not you better , they just got another impromtue order by a man who know craftsmanship and oppertunity ,if not cannons . This will be one you may see on ebay sometime .

My new next door neighbor ordered on as well , he's an Army Arty 12 year guy and he looked at it and said ..."sold"....

These 20 will dry up and the be gone . Pifffh like the wind .

Gary

it must have been 65 deg. this morning ,I had to pull my sheet up tight burrrrrr .

You know...when you're right, you're right. It may not happen all the time, but I'm thinking it's happening now. Consider my arm twisted and the pin pulled. Seacoast, I'm sending you a PM!!! Hopefully I can get the last one!

(I really hope my order encourages them to make the chassis for it that I proposed a couple of pages back - it seemed like it would be well received, and would really make this an over the top presentation piece!)

Victor3 · « **Reply #228 on:** September 05, 2010, 12:24:45 AM »

Quote from: seacoastartillery on September 04, 2010, 09:30:57 AM

You will soon see the Krupp Howitzer in all of it's finally completed glory including the deep gun blue from the professional plating shop which does all of our high dollar seacoast cannons.

Along with all of the other detailed work you guys are puting into these things, hot blue too? Dang.

I know a little bit about manufacturing metal things; you guys who will have these guns are getting much more than your money's worth...

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #229 on:** September 05, 2010, 11:21:31 AM »

Thank you Andy, for your Krupp Howitzer order. We are looking forward to seeing the gun and carriage finally completed on Friday.

   Thank you Dale, for your order. Only Gary knows Dale who is our friend and brother of Bruce the sculptor we have mentioned a few times. Dale is not really into cannons, but after we showed him the third proto, he said, "Make me one!" It's a fine first cannon for someone who really looks for craftsmanship in everything he buys.

   Mr. East Coast Moderator: After long and careful consideration of your suggestion that we mark, "EACH AND EVERY PART" with serial numbers, at least the last two digits, we have made our determination. No, we can't do any of that. No money in the budget, Tim. The markings you and other Krupp owners will receive are fairly extensive, however. Once again, they are:

   (KRUPP) on the left trunnion face
   (1866) on the right trunnion face
   (Seacoast Artillery Company)
   (First Edition) (Oct. 2010)
   (S/N XX) (.312 cal.) OR (.354 cal.) These 3 lines on the top, rear surface of the baseplate under the breech.
   (Black Powder Only) on the bottom of the breech

   That's it! That's more than enough, I can tell you! Thank you for your kind words, Gary. They say that familiarity breeds contempt. Frankly Mike and I held you in contempt long before we were familiar with you, disproving the truth of that old saying. But thanks anyway for those nice comments, they are expected, you know. He, he.

   Thanks for your compliments, Victor. Here is the low down on Hot Blue surface treatment. It only costs us twice the base fee of 50 dollars to do the whole bunch of parts we will have for the 24 gun, First Edition. So we will have $50 for the bluing of the 3rd proto and $100 for the entire production lot of parts. It's about $6 per gun. We are not chiselers. It's worth more than $6 to provide a vastly superior surface treatment in goodwill alone!!

Tracy and Mike

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #230 on:** September 05, 2010, 01:33:10 PM »

M&T -- I have no problem with EACH part not being serialized. You handled my challange well.

Are they going to be marked 1st Edition, or is that up to the observer of history to know that by date?

I suppose you want us to decide on the caliber too.

I'll have to dig out some firecrackers and measure a few by using a drilled hole as a gauge.

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #231 on:** September 05, 2010, 05:49:50 PM »

Please let us know the results of your tests on the firecrackers. I've decided to go with the larger bore, even though I can shoot firecrackers, due to it's increased versatility and it being a standard gun size, which will make finding suitable cleaning tools a no brainer. I'm hoping a firecracker will still have a nice flight out of the larger bore.

Probably no need to mark these as first runs. If any subsequent runs are made, they can be marked as additional batches: i.e. #2.11 could be the 11th serial in batch 2. I'm hoping that with me securing #24 in this batch of 24 that there won't be any more batches, so I get the very last serial number. (To those that read this - they may still have more available - I just asked specifically for the last serial number.)

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #232 on:** September 06, 2010, 12:42:39 AM »

Correction - it seems Double D was promised the final serial numbered Krupp, so I have just agreed to have the final prototype (#4)! I'm not sure if it's even pictured on here yet! Thanks Tracy!

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #233 on:** September 06, 2010, 03:07:08 AM »

I want ...

I want ...

I want ...

(At work it's: I need, I need, I need ... )

I'll be happy with a factory-second! It's going to be USED!

Ex 49'er · « **Reply #234 on:** September 06, 2010, 06:00:33 AM »

Tracy, Thankyou for the contact yesterday. I'm looking forward to having a Seacoast Artillery Krupp sitting on a shelf.
It won't be a shelf queen. It'll be used. Guess I'd better start saving krayons at school. Short pencils, too; like the old trick of using a pencil in a .45 for practice, shoot 'em out of a Krupp at targets on a wall.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #235 on:** September 06, 2010, 06:47:26 AM »

Quote from: seacoastartillery on September 03, 2010, 10:44:08 PM

Cat Whisperer, do you mean stamp numbers, like these on my 1908 Brazilian contract Mauser, on each separate, Krupp Howitzer part?

Tracy

A friend has a 50mm krupp mountain gun and yep each piece is serial #'d to the gun..... You've been making fast progress on these
and they are looking great!

Double D · « **Reply #236 on:** September 06, 2010, 06:59:12 AM »

Quote from: KABAR2 on September 06, 2010, 06:47:26 AM

A friend has a 50mm krupp mountain gun and yep each piece is serial #'d to the gun..... You've been making fast progress on these
and they are looking great!

Is each part numbered or is only the barrel parts number and not the carriage numbered?

The was a recommendation at College when you rebuilt a rifle that you made sure the the action serial number was keyed to the bolt and barrel at least with the last three digits of the serial number. Most bolts had the serial number already on them. On every rifle I built I made sure the bolt was keyed to the action as it was easily removed. Never bothered with barrel. By the way the method suggested for marking was elector pencil ala Remington and Winchester-yuck. I used number stamps when I had to.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #237 on:** September 06, 2010, 07:04:09 AM »

   Mark, it was really nice talking with you yesterday. Glad to hear you will be using your Krupp cannon.

   When I read Cat Whisperer's comments, I ran into the shop and elbowed Mike. NO, not while he was running the lathe!! He was just sweeping up before we started another 9mm gundrilling session. I said, "Come out and see what Tim wrote on GBO". Mike looked at that comment and said, "Wow, looks like we can sell that one I dropped after all! Thank goodness for laid-back, reasonable, engineers! Now we can sell 26 Krupps! 24 First Edition, 1 First Edition Proto and now 1 'second'. It wouldn't have been so bad if it merely squirted out of his oil soaked, slippery, hand and did a graceful swan dive to the concrete floor, but NO, it had to zero in on the only scrap piece of steel we had failed to sweep up in the entire shop, a 4" long piece of D-2 that Mike was making into a scraping tool. Hardened to about 63 Rc, it cut a perfect, deep, line across the muzzle, parallel to the trunnion axis. In section, this piece of steel was a 3/4" high triangle shape, lying sharp edge up, of course! Mike just stared at it for a moment and then with a couple, quick movements, rotated it 90 degs., put the muzzle on the scraper and whacked it real hard with the 2 Lb. dead-blow hammer. A perfect cross resulted! So, Tim, that's the only thing odd about it, other than the slow leak in the left, rubber, tire; this was a first, first proto you know. Thanks Tim! What a wonderful opportunity........for us.

   Gulfcoastblackpowder, Now you can brag to your friends, "I got a much better deal on a Krupp cannon than even the East Coast Moderator did! And, you will be correct!! Watch for cracker flight test results.

Tracy and Mike

KABAR2 · « **Reply #238 on:** September 06, 2010, 07:54:12 AM »

Quote from: Double D on September 06, 2010, 06:59:12 AM

Quote from: KABAR2 on September 06, 2010, 06:47:26 AM

A friend has a 50mm krupp mountain gun and yep each piece is serial #'d to the gun..... You've been making fast progress on these
and they are looking great!

Is each part numbered or is only the barrel parts number and not the carriage numbered?

The was a recommendation at College when you rebuilt a rifle that you made sure the the action serial number was keyed to the bolt and barrel at least with the last three digits of the serial number. Most bolts had the serial number already on them. On every rifle I built I made sure the bolt was keyed to the action as it was easily removed. Never bothered with barrel. By the way the method suggested for marking was elector pencil ala Remington and Winchester-yuck. I used number stamps when I had to.

All parts numbered, including the carriage & wheels the bronze tag on carriage also contains the serial number.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #239 on:** September 06, 2010, 08:06:49 AM »

I'll consider those marks 'proof' marks by the mfg.