Author Topic: need a new scope, which one ?  (Read 1915 times)

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Offline Country Boy

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need a new scope, which one ?
« on: July 08, 2010, 10:26:34 AM »
this scope will go on a new browning x bolt micro hunter in .308. After paying for the rifle I have a limited budget. So which one and why ? Redfield 3x9x40 or Simmions pro-hunter or a Nikon prostaff. all run between 100 to 149.00.

Offline burntmuch

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2010, 01:36:26 PM »
Redfield. Why?? because those 3 are all probably comparable. The Redfield is made in the USA. Thats enough for me. Good luck & let us know what you get plus a range report on that new X bolt ;D
I dont care what gun Im using as long as Im hunting

Offline eye shot

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2010, 05:33:53 AM »
Redfield- in low light it's very close to my Nikon Monarch and that says alot. Life time transferable warranty and has held up flawlessly on my 12ga. slug gun. Also assembled in USA.
RIP Mike. Died on July 14th, around 2am, with his family at his side, he went peacefully to be with god.

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Offline Swampman

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2010, 05:45:04 AM »
The Nikon Prostaff because it's the best of the choices listed.  The Bushnell 3200 3-9X40 is a great choice and can be found in the same price range.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Huffmanite

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2010, 07:29:26 AM »
Want a 6-18X44 AO scope, made in USA, Life-time Warrenty with good optical glass made by a company making optical products since late 1920s?   Then check Amazon.com for a Swift model 669M scope to see if it is still listed for $125 (plus shipping).  Beware, there were two listings for the Swift 669M scope on Amazon and other one shown is about $70 more in price.  This scope sells for over $200 elsewhere last time I checked.  I have 2 of this model Swift scope on centerfire rifles and pleased with it.

As for the Simmons Prohunter scopes,  I have a couple of the side focus 6-18x40 models, also on centerfire rifles, and I've no complaints about them.  I just shoot paper at range, usually at 100 yards, so they have been very adequate for my needs of clearly seeing holes in my targets and have withstood recoil of a good many rounds.    Check Natchez Shooters Supplies website for a Prohunter or Aetec at www.natchezss.com
On opening website page, look at right side for their July/August 2010 internet catalog.   Peruse thru first 23 pages, lots of various brand scopes to choose from. If you buy a Simmons scope, be aware of a Simmons Rebate program that lasts till December on any scope costing over $25 that is good for 25% of the purchase price (not including Taxes, shipping and etc.)  So, for example, you can buy the Natchez $80 2.8-10x44 Aetec Simmons for about $60 plus shipping. 


Another brand to consider is the Federal Intensity scopes also available form Natchez.  They are decent scopes at a bargain price.  The 2.8-10X44 Intensity is an aspherical type lens, (same as Aetecs) and the clarity of this model should impress you.  Other  model Intensity scopes at Natchez don't have the aspherical lens, but still have decent glass. Intensity models available are same as Weaver 40-44 line of scopes which sell for 2 to 3 times more in price and if the Intensity goes bad, it will be with a Weaver.  (Intensity/weaver both owned by ATK.)

Offline Swampman

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2010, 02:19:22 PM »
I finally got a chance to play with a Redfield 2-7X33 today at the Leupold booth.  It was ok.......
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2010, 02:31:51 AM »
havent tried a redfield so cant give advice there but in that price range (it may be 20-50 bucks more) id look at a 3200 bushnell or a weaver. Both are much better opticaly then a prostaff is. Or if you want a nikon at least save a few more dollars and buy a buckmaster. Natchez has a sale going on refirbed nikons right now and you can get a refirbished buckmaster the price of a prostaff or better yet a monarch at the price of a buckmaster.
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2010, 03:04:53 AM »
blue lives matter

Offline wareagleguy

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2010, 10:57:57 AM »
I can only answer this way.  A rifle is only as good as it's optics.  If you spend $1,000,000 on a rifle and top it with a $100 scope you can't do any better than that $100 bucks.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2010, 11:01:12 AM »
I can say this, if you spend more than $200.00 on a scope you're throwing money away.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline wareagleguy

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2010, 11:27:10 AM »
So,
Most Leupolds, Nikons, and any other scope over $200 is a waste of money?
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Offline Swampman

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2010, 11:29:31 AM »
They won't be any better than several of the $200.00 scopes that are on the market.  They do resell better.  That's the upside.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline tobster

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2010, 05:39:37 AM »
Once upon a time I bought a new Nikon optic for less than $200.00. Glass was so-so and after a few years it developed some problems. After paying shipping both ways plus repair fee I still had a so=so optic, but now had over $200.00 invested.  I also  bought an optic used for over $200.00 and after a period of time it didn't seem quite right.  Sent it back to the manufacturer at my expense (no reciept). They promptly inspected it ,cleaned it, and returned it free of charge. Optics now seem great. I'm happy and my over $200.00 scope will probably be worth over $200.00 should I decide to sell it (not likely).  Moral of the story- Swampgas might be an untapped resource for alternative enery! 

Offline Swampman

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2010, 05:46:37 AM »
It's a common debate tactic to call names when you're losing.  I get it all the time.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline pastorp

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2010, 09:19:08 AM »
I agree the price of new leupolds are way too high, but used leupolds usually represent a good value.. Swift optics do offer a good value but are hard to resale. I've used several swifts and been happy with them all.

I had a bad experience with bushnell and their so called warenty dept and really can't recomend their products. I'm glad some of you have had good luck with them but I'll never buy another bushnell product.. 
Byron

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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2010, 10:37:31 AM »
I bet to differ. So your saying a nikon buckmaster is as good opticaly as a monarch or a leupold rifleman is as good as a vx111 or a 3200 bushnell is as good as a 4200 and i can go on and on. Sorry it just aint happening and if you actually compared them side by side youd sure see a diffence. I had a 150 dollar pro staff on a gun this deer season and noticed it was pour in low light. Went back to camp where i had a rifle with a vari x111 (the older model which isnt as good as the new ones) and anohter gun with 3x9 monarch on them and looking through them then going back to the prostaff was like someone shut the lights off. If anything scopes are a place even more then rifles that you get what you pay for. Ive got 300 dollar rifles that will outshoot 600 dollar guns i have but in all the scopes i have i can honestly say there isnt one that is cheaper then another that outperforms it. Maybe you have bad eyes or dont have high standards when it comes to optics but to me theres very few scopes that you can buy for under 200 bucks that are worth putting on a rifle. The only two i can think of off hand are the weaver variables the 3200 bushnells
They won't be any better than several of the $200.00 scopes that are on the market.  They do resell better.  That's the upside.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2010, 11:56:58 AM »
About once a month I compare many brands and models of scopes (side by side) at the shows I attend.  Don't spend over $200.00.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline drdougrx

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2010, 12:47:42 PM »
Swampy...I respect your opinions...so please respect mine.  There's no comparison between a $200 and $1200 scope.  The optics are considerably better.  I will say that if your hunting is consistant, all shots under 100 yards, all shots in broad daylight, all shots in moderate to warm weather, all shots in little to no humidity or moisture and all rifles with mild recoil, than....I expect a $200 scope will be just fine. 

HOWEVER....IF...one hunts in a diverse environment, a bit better optics and engineering is, IMO, in order. 

I won't suggest that a $200 scope will certainly fail in subzero or several days of rain or shots at 250-300yards or at first or last light, or when using a heavy kicking magnum cartridge, etc.  But I will say theres a better probability that they may fail.  Would you bet a once in a lifetime or high dollar hunt (>than $2k) hunt on $200 optics???  I haven't and wouldn't, but that's me.  Surely, $200 optics today may be better than 10 or more years ago, but....I ask again...would you trust a very expensive hunt, a long way from home on $200 optics.

Swamp will probably say yes...I repect that....I say no.

What say you????
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Offline Swampman

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2010, 01:09:04 PM »
I would bet the hunt of a life time on a Bushnell 3200 3-9X40.  I will probably bet a high dollar hunt on a Nikon Prostaff in the near future.

Because IMO they are better than many scopes that cost 4 times what they cost.

Just my 2 cents based on personal experience.  I bought a new Leupold around Christmas and I am pretty disapointed.  I think it will end up on a Handi if I don't send it back.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline kyelkhunter3006

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2010, 03:01:20 PM »
I'm kind of on Swampy's side with this one.  I've never entered the $1000 zone on a scope, but I've had Elite 3200, 4200, Redfield, Leupold Vari-X I, II, and Compacts.  Couple of Burris and Pentax too.  Weaver Classic and Grand Slam.  Tons of cheap scopes.  You get the idea.  I've had enough to know what I want and what I like.  I traded scopes more than I traded guns, LOL.

I like fixed power scopes too, so I'm that much more "weird".

The ONE scope I've kept out of all of them is a Bushnell 3200 2-7x32.  Been on my 30-06 for 10 years now.  Never lost zero.  Riding in trucks, on quads, getting dropped, etc.  Used all the time for targets, coyotes, crows, deer.  I haven't been shooting much in the last year, but that rifle still gets at least 100 rounds through it every year.  I'll never let that scope go.  It stays on 5x unless I'm walking, then it's on 2x.  Never had a shot in any weather or lighting that I could make with that scope.

The scope that I keep kicking myself in the arse for getting rid of is the Weaver Grand Slam 4.75x40 fixed power.  It is THE perfect scope for a big game rifle.

The ONLY scopes that I've had problems with are Leupold's. Both Vari-X II 2-7x33's.  One de-gassed and one broke the x-hair.  The compact 3-9x33 resolution was so bad I couldn't tell that a deer was a spike at 100yds.  I had to use my binocs to tell.

Years ago, Outdoor Life had an article by Zumbo on optics.  If he only had $500 to spend on a scope, binocs, and a spotting scope, what would he buy?  He picked a Bushnell Trophy 3-9x40, Pentax compact 10x, and Kowa spotting scope.  He said he'd take a good spotter, good binocs, and a 'average' scope any day of the week.  The scope is going to be used once on a hunt (hopefully) while the binocs and spotter will be used the rest of the time.

Gary Sitton of Guns-N-Ammo fame had several high dollar custom rifles...Dakota's, Ultra Light Arms, Jarret, etc.  You know what he had on them?  Elite 3000 and Elite 3200's.  That's enough of a testimony for me.  He had more "hunts of a lifetime" than any of us will ever see.

I've got a buddy that's got Swarovski and high dollar Leupolds on all of his guns.  Yes, I can tell the optics are better.  So what?

A scope is a sighting device.  Not a precision veiwing instrument.  As long as you can see the x-hairs and put them against your target, you're going to make the shot if you youself are capable of it.

I wonder how people killed animals back when there wasn't multi-coated glass, 25x zoom, AO, and ballistic x-hairs?

There's a HUGE difference between what you NEED and what you WANT.  Once you go over $400 on a scope, IMO, it's about what you want.  You don't need the "difference" between a $250 Bushnell and a $1200 Swarovski.  If it makes you feel confident and you have the $$ to burn, go for it.

I would take my Elite 3200 2-7x32 on the hunt of a lifetime without any hesitation what-so-ever.

For what it's worth, I relatives that live in South Africa and have a huge parcel of land.  They aren't "professional hunters" but they hunt more in a year that any of us will in a lifetime.  My cousin uses a Winchester Model 70 Classic (walnut and blue) with a Burris fixed 4x in .270 for EVERYTHING.  Eland, Kudu, etc.  Yeah, he's killed buffalo and lions with it too.  He thinks that American hunting and shooting is ridiculous with .300 Wonderboommer magnums and 25X scopes for deer hunting.  His exact words were "Jeezuzz christ, you're hunting an animal that weighs 200lbs and usually within 100 yds.  I'd use a .223 or a even .22LR if I could get away with it."  He couldn't believe that I used a 30-06 to do it.


Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2010, 04:00:16 PM »
 Years ago, Outdoor Life had an article by Zumbo on optics.  If he only had $500 to spend on a scope, binocs, and a spotting scope, what would he buy?  He picked a Bushnell Trophy 3-9x40, Pentax compact 10x, and Kowa spotting scope.  He said he'd take a good spotter, good binocs, and a 'average' scope any day of the week.  The scope is going to be used once on a hunt (hopefully) while the binocs and spotter will be used the rest of the time.



Personaly if i had 500 bucks to spend and had to buy a scope a pair of binocs. and a spotting scope id wait and save some more money. Zumbo is an idiot anyway! ;)
 I have to wonder why if it doesnt make a differnce you see very few cheap scopes on any rifle shot in competition. I guess anyone that shoots bench rest or siluette compition is just an obtics snob. Before you get unraveled i do agree with what you are saying to a certian degree. I have 1000 dollar scopes (only if you count acogs) Are they worth twice what something else is? I dont know as i dont know of anyone that competes in that market. As to 1000 hunting scopes i dont own a one. I do though own many 500 dollar ones. I think theres a big differnce in mid range scopes from the major manufactures and the top end ones. 500 bucks will buy you a good scope. At 200 there are a few decent ones but theres also junk in that price range. I bought two nikon prostaffs and think there junk. I get better light trasmition through a world class tasco and that aint saying much. A buckmaster is better but not great. Like was said if you hunt close range and hunt only in good light you can get buy with even a scope from walmart. Heck ive seen guys using 20 year old tascos that cost probably 20 bucks new and get there deer every year. I chuckle at guys that wont buck up for good optics. Same guys probably spent thousands on chrome do dads for there truck or harley. Me my passion is guns and hunting and if i cant afford to buy quality equipment I save till i can. Id rather have one good gun with a quality scope then two cheap guns with cheap scopes.
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Offline drdougrx

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2010, 04:07:54 PM »
Interesting....I was actually thinking of swaros, zeiss and the like. I've seen and used at least 100 of each of these in different models.  Swaros are nice but heavy, ziess same though the conquest is real nice.  Schmitt and Bender, same as Swaro.  Pentax scopes are very nice and I certainly can't complain about them if you like them.  I own a terrific weaver classic Vs that are on rimfires and am happy with them.  I've had various bushnells....had.  I will say that all of these when tested in a store appear little different from one another.  Out in the field....I beg to differ.

I think Zumbo's right though...if you only had $500 than his choices were valid.  Did he happen to say that he'd make those exact same choices if he had $1,000?  I'd like to have that answer.  Your cousin in Africa lives the dream, at least for me...though...I wonder how different is it really than the folks from Maine or Pennsi or other places with either liberal bag limits or significant opportunity to hunt in a relatively consistant environment.  Not much I suspect...power to him.  Wish I could be there.

Also....I've never, ever seen or heard of anyone that had such fatal issues with leupees more than any other brand...but then again, a few hundred examples may not support actual real world data.

Anyway...I did find this report of interest:  http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=21176

Guess, as usual, I haven't a clue about yet another subject.

BTW...Swampy....what hunt are you planning???  I'm probably going to do free range aoudad next summer in TX...still trying to get my head around those numbers!!!
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Offline Swampman

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2010, 05:06:44 PM »
I'm going to Kentucky.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline drdougrx

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2010, 05:26:02 PM »
Elk????
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Offline Swampman

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2010, 05:29:51 PM »
Big whitetails.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline hunt-m-up

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2010, 07:17:25 PM »
To the OP, forget about the Simmons, bad idea. Go to a store where you can compare Nikon, Redfield, and Burris Fullfield II then make up your own mind. It's a little more $$, but I'm partial to the Burris.
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Offline drdougrx

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2010, 03:28:08 AM »
Hey Swamp...big whitetails in KY??? I'm going to check that out, I actually didn't realize that KY was a big deer state or had any real trophy potential (not that it doesn't, I just didn't know).  Like to see some pics when you get back.

Sorry all for going off course....
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Offline sgtt

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2010, 04:40:33 AM »
Of the three.....Redfield.  If I had to have a new scope I might also consider Mueller.  I would probably look at ebay and try to score a used Leupold, Nikon Monarch, B & L, Bushnell Scopechief (older mdl) or Bushnell 3200 in desending order.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2010, 05:17:10 AM »
The tubes and finish on the new Redfields seem very cheap.  The optics equal the Leupold Rifleman. :'(
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

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Re: need a new scope, which one ?
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2010, 06:44:29 AM »
Well I have had good luck with the Bushnel Trophy scopes for many years .Have always installed on of these when on a budget , and have only once sent one in for repair, to find out later- it was the scope base that was off centre ( installed by a smith -no less ).
The Ruger rifle my wife has , seen some rough use over many years , and never does it need any adjustment year after year. So after many game shot and years of service---- Why not another ?

I do have a Leupold vx-111 on the 300 WM winchester. It is indeed worth the extra money for sure . I bought this one used, and keep my eyes open for another one if ever I see another .
I do agree you should spend as much on a good scope as you spend on a good rifle . But if you can do this by buying a good used unit-So be it !!



Hear the simmon scopes have some issues , where you must leave the rear ring just snug or they will not ajust properly