New guy with a question

[crgator]

I recently purchased (from Cabellas) a Pietta .44 cal 1851 Confederate Navy, brass frame.   I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, but I love it already. 
But, I have a question.

Why is it better to use .454 than .451?  If you shave some lead when loading, aren't both going to end up the same diameter, and you're just taking off more of the .454 than you are .451? 

I was recently at Gander Mountain and all they had was .451, so, although I was looking for .454, I bought some of what they had?  Should I look for the larger ball and will it make that much difference.

I know, from what I've read, that either should work, maybe one a bit better than the other, I just don't understand why there is a difference -- if they're both shaving a ring of lead.

Also, anyone own one of the brass frames?  What load do you use.  From what I've read, somewhere around 20 grains sounds about right, but I believe the instructions that came with the gun said no more than 25.  I don't want to put too much in and weaken the gun too soon.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[bedbugbilly]

This is probably only worth 2 cents but I'll reply anyway . . . . . 

As far as ball size . . . . I understand what you are saying and it's a good question.  In theory, yes, you will shave lead off of both of them to the diameter of the chamber.  However, the larger ball (because it is a larger diameter) will have a smigon more actual contact with the walls of the chamber.  I just shoot Navies (.36 caliber) and I use a .375 ball . . . a lot of fellows use .380.  I've also read where some who have used the smaller diameter balls have had the un-shot balls in the chambers next to the one that is discharged move forward in the chamber.  Myself . . . I've never experienced that, but, that's not to say that it can't happen.  Perhaps someone wiser than I can address that.  In loading blackpowder firearms, it is a MUST that the ball be seated firmly against the powder (or wad or cream of wheat filler if used in your revolver).  If not, because of the nature of the beast and the pressures, you could rupture a cylinder or if it is a rifle, cause the barrel to burst.  That is why it is always a good idea when shooting a muzzleloading rifle, that once you get your load worked out, you mark your ramrod at the muzzle after you have seated the load so  you will always have a reference to look at when loading to make sure the load is seated firmly in the breech.  When you shoot your revolver, visually check the chambers of the cylinder to make sure the ball hasn't moved forward from the recoil (CAREFULLY look - don't point the weapon at yourself!). 

Someone else should be able to give you a good idea on a beginning load.  I'm sure that there are a few on here that must have the same model that you have.  It sounds like you've done a good job in your research . . . . . after loading your pistol a few times you'll develop a "feel" for it when seating the balls, etc.  Be safe and have fun!  After a few rounds, you'll be "hooked" on it for good!  Welcome to the board and don't be afraid to ask any questions you might have as someone will get you the info you need!   

[coyotejoe]

It really depends on the size of the chambers and there is no "standard" size, it varies widely among different revolvers. Most .44 revolver bores are what would be called standard .45's by modern shooters with a groove diameter of .451-.452". For accurate shooting the ball should be at least as large as the groove diameter of the barrel when it comes out of the chamber. And there is the rub, as they say. If the chambers are so small that a .451" ball is a tight fit going in then it will surely be well under groove diameter coming out. If you get a tight fit with .451" balls your chambers are undersize, which is very common in the replica revolvers.
I've seen quite a few revolvers with chambers so small that a ball rammed into an empty chamber and knocked back out with a rod through the nipple hole will actually FALL through the bore without engaging the rifling at all. There is only one hope for accurate shooting with such guns, ream the chambers. I ream my chambers to .452" and shoot .457" balls. I could shoot .454" OK but .457's are more accurate.
 I'm also not a fan of the "shave a ring of lead" school of loading. I lightly bevel the chamber mouths so that a ball is swaged into the chamber, not cut-to-fit. Swaging the ball gives the tightest possible seal of the chamber and leaves a smoother surface on the ball with less tendency to lead the bore. Also there will be no "rings of lead" to dispose of or to get into the works. I'm surprised no one advertises a business of reaming C&B revolver chambers, they nearly all will benifit from such attention. I suspect most revolver shooters are happy enough if the gun will just go "bang" and they don't even know that "one of those old guns" can be very accurate shooters with just a little tune up.
A cap&ball revolver, properly set up and loaded, will often put modern handguns to shame for accuracy. If yours doesn't I would look first at the chamber diameter.
 Your proposed load of 20 grains 3f black or Pyrodex P should be good. I've found "triple seven" to be quite a bit hotter than blackpowder and I'd avoid that stuff in a brass framed revolver.

[BobJ]

Read some time ago where you mentioned beveling the chamber. It sounds logical. I don't want to ruin my gun, tho. How do I do this or how to get it done?

[mcwoodduck]

The Lead is a lot softer than the cylinder.
The longer oval bullet as others said gives you more surface to contact with the rifeling.
The biggest reason is a full chamber is a safe chamber.
When you shoot the gun sparks go every where.  If one finds it way between the ball and the cylinder, the ball will launch.
Just load the Brass framed guns up.  NOT Hot 25 to 30 grains of Black Powder or 80% of that for Pyrodex P and a round ball and you will be happy.
The heavy charges weaken the brass frame where.  The bullet slamming into the barrel from the chamber weakens the frame where the Barrel touches the lower part of the frame and pulls on the cylender rod that holds the barrel on with a wedge through it.
Don't be afraid to shoot it just do not try to make 45 colt equal loads for it.

[coyotejoe]

Read some time ago where you mentioned beveling the chamber. It sounds logical. I don't want to ruin my gun, tho. How do I do this or how to get it done?

I have a tool similar to a large countersink I run in the drill press and I've also used a mounted stone, ball shaped, in a cordless hand drill. It's just a matter of breaking the sharp edge, hardly even noticeable. You'd have to get really carried away to do any damage.

[All Hawks Kill]

I have had Pietta .44 cal 1851 Confederate Navy, brass frame for years and found that 22 grains of Pyrodex P and a .451 ball over a Wonder Wad to be very accurate.  Accurate enough in fact that I carry mine when deer hunting to pickup some fresh rabbit meat when the chance arises.

[bedbugbilly]

Hey All Hawks Kill . . . . O.K. . . . I'm curious as a cat!  How on earth did you ever get that rabbit to lay down long enough so you could snap that photo???   

Just kidding!  Great photo and I admire anybody that can do that with a BP pistol! Thanks for sharing!   

[All Hawks Kill]

Thanks Billy!  On my property I generally only use BP for hunting when I'm not usin my Bow.  Here is another bunny that fell to my Reb Navy on the way back to camp one mornin...

[Gatofeo]

That rabbit looks like good eating. My mother was from Belgium, where killed and dressed rabbits are still sold in the grocery stores. When I was a kid, in the 50s and 60s, it was difficult to find rabbit at the grocery store in eastern Washington state but Mom found it occasionally.
She used to prepare it in a red wine broth that contained prunes, baked in the oven. It was magnificent and I wish I had that recipe today! With each portion of rabbit on your plate, you got a couple of rehydrated plums; rather like applesauce next to a pork chop.

I use .454 or .457 inch balls in all my .44s. Gave up on .451 balls years ago. My theory -- and it's just a theory, though others state it as fact -- is that the larger ball results in a wider bearing band on the ball, for better obturation and more of an area for the rifling to grip.
I've had .451 balls slip forward under recoil in the past, so I went to the larger ball.
I've never chamfered the chambers on my revolvers. Given the primitive sights of the Colt design, and the slightly better sights of the Remington, I don't see where I'd be advantaged.
Besides, my Remington .44 will put six balls into 1-1/2 inches at 25 yards; My Colt Navy will do 2 inches. The greatest limiting factor is my 55-year-old eyes!

[All Hawks Kill]

No more rabbit pictures, sorry for getting a bit off track...

I would suspect that the reason that the larger bullets perform better is just like with any other bullets in rifles or pistols.  Even though you may cut a ring off the of a .451, and little bigger ring off a .454 the .454 will be longer and most longer projectiles have a better ballistic coefficient or BC than the shorter of the same diameter.  This would generally mean that the groups should be better with the bullet with the better BC.  Just a thought, I know there are many other theroies.....

[crgator]

A lot of helpful answers.  Thanks.

I'll shoot the .451 I've got, and keep my eyes open for .454 next time.  I hope to get to the range soon (the nearest outdoor range is over an hour away) and try this thing out.  I think I'm more anxious to shoot it than I was with any of my other guns when I first got them.  I'll keep checking this forum to hopefully learn a lot more.