Ballistically +/- identical - 25-06 and 7mm-08: Which would you choose and why?

[briannmilewis]

Folks, looking for some opinions backed up by reasons...there are no wrong answers.

[trotterlg]

I think if you stand the two cartridges up side by side you will be able to tell which one has the zip in it.  Larry

[Spanky]

Depends on what you're going to hunt with it. The 7-08 can shoot alot heavier bullets than the 06.
Most folks would think the 06 would outrun the 08 but they really are twins with the lighter bullets.
I have a 7-08 handi and it's a great shooter with light recoil.



Spanky

[Couger]

What are you going to kill with this gun choice?

Varmints no bigger than a 'spaniel?'  (like wood or rock chucks?)

Or are you going to hunt deer and possibly pronghorns or even an elk?    Twas me I'd rather have the bigger bullet  (140-150-160grains)  from the 7mm bore.

(actually I prefer the .308 over the 7mm-08 myself - but even in a singleshot, why not instead go with a full-length .30/06!!??).

[Bigeasy]

If you are going to hunt game bigger then deer, I would prefer the 7mm/08 due to the slightly heavier bullet selection.

Larry

[MSP Ret]

the 25-06 is a fine long range rifle, especially in a Handi with the long barrel (26)associated with it in these single shots. That long barrel is really what makes it so good in a Handi and not just another caliber. If it was made in a standard 22" barrel I don't think it would stand out at all. In a Handi it would do fine for long, perhaps out to 300 (+) yard shots, in fact from what I have read here it is most popular out west where the shots are long and IIRC they use it for pronghorn, mulke deer, and perhaps even Elk with the right bullets. I think the available bullets are less than the 7mm/.284 diameter.
The 7mm-08 is a great hunting round and very accurate with great terminal ballistics. Also there are MANY fine bullets (.284) made for it that the reloader can use to load up rounds capable of taking almost any animal on earth, especially with the new powders available. It does come in only a 22 inch barrel in a Handi but that really does not limit it too much.
A lot has to do with what you are planning to hunt, where you hunt, and under what conditions..Even with the short 22" barrel the 7mm-08 is more than capable of good 200-250 yard (++) shots. They are both good rounds in thier own right. I have both calibers but do not have the 7mm-08 in a Handi, yet...<><....

[coues2506]

I like all the varients of the -06 and don't like any of them off the 08 case.

[PawPaw]

If I remember my history correctly, the 7mm-08 cartridge was popularized in the '70s by the metallic silhouette shooters.  They wanted a cartridge that would fit in a short action, with soft(er) recoil, that retained enough energy to knock down the 500 meter rams.  The 140 grain bullet would reach the 500 meter targets faster, with more energy than the .308 with 150 grain bullets.

As to choosing between the two, I like them both and consider them magnificent cartridges, each with their own strengths and weaknesses.  I've never hunted elk, but the elk hunters I've talked to claim that with the right bullets, both the 25-06 and the 7mm-08 are capable of the game.  Folks kill elk every year with pointy sticks, so it's a matter of getting close enough and putting it where it matters.

As far as choosing between the two, it's a toss-up.  What do you want?  They're both extremely capable cartridges.

[Spanky]

I like all the varients of the -06 and don't like any of them off the 08 case.

Why don't you like anything in the 08 family? With 120gr. bullets the 25-06 and 7-08 have identical ballistics... the 308 is one of the best ever... the 358 is an awesome woods round... the 260 is a great medium game round... the 243 is just about perfect for varmints to deer... etc, etc, etc. What's not to like?



Spanky

[catman50plus]

Between the two, after shooting the 25/06 for 30 years, I would have to go with it. MOST any bullet put in the right place will work and yes it has worked on elk. I push mine at std vel. and I do push them much faster but am sure not telling anyone else to do so. If someone is not going to take the time, and are of the mind set, that it takes a big bullet to kill a deer or elk, then they most likely need to use that. I now prefer the 260 cal. in which ever case it be in, seems to be not as much recoil, and the long range groups are much better in the wind, since I don't shoot as much as I did years ago. I have a feeling that Tim will be finding this out too soon, if he has not already.

[quickdtoo]

Unfortunately H&R has never offered any 6.5mm chamberings, so that would be an expensive choice. 

Tim

[necchi]

708,
simple, even shown in your chart, larger diameter with the same ballistics, and very likley using less powder.

 I sure would like an extra 4"s of barrel though. I've considered getting the 2506 from the few that get offered occasionally just for that reason, but the extra powder needed just kinda turns me off. I don't think the 2506 will do anything the 708 can't. Maybe with a smaller pill it will reach out better for varment, but the 223 can do that too.
 And I've always held the too the standard, "If your gonna shoot a 30-06 case, it might as well be a 30-06"

[spikehorn]

Why not go with the 280 and get the advantages of the 26 in barrel in a handi and a 7mm pill

[myarmor]

I like all the varients of the -06 and don't like any of them off the 08 case.

Why don't you like anything in the 08 family? With 120gr. bullets the 25-06 and 7-08 have identical ballistics... the 308 is one of the best ever... the 358 is an awesome woods round... the 260 is a great medium game round... the 243 is just about perfect for varmints to deer... etc, etc, etc. What's not to like?


Spanky

I totally agree with Spanky here. Longer case length doesn't always mean "better/faster". the shorter 308 case makes for a very effecient use of components.
Though with the question asked above, in the long run given the barrel length I would choose the 25-06. It's not cheap anywhere else to find a 26' heavy weight barrel for a 25-06 other than going with a H&R. Though as Spike said a 280 would be an awesome choice as well if you want 7mm versitility with a nice 26' tube 




-Aaron

[guns-o-fun]

Have to agree with Spikehorn.  I think the 280 is a more flexible 7 mm round.  It has a little more case capacity than a 30-06, so for a handloader, it can push a 175 grain bullet along at a pretty good clip - certainly faster than a 7-08 could (~2600 fps vs. 2350 fps or so).  It can also take the same range of lighter bullets that the 30-06 can.  Does eat more powder than an 08, though.  Looking for one right now -but not in a handi.  I have the 25-06 in a handi.  Cut a new 11 degree crown on it and put it in ultravarmint stocks.  It shoots very well (touching at 50 and 1 moa or less at 100 on a good day - though I have not shot it in the wind). 

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  While my rifles are not Handi's I have a nice .25-06 and want another ...... I have a 7mm-08 super accurate,  I don't want another, and really don't want this one....

[Sweetwater]

The choices of 30-06 and 280 are off topic. Of the two choices, I haven't shot under 100gr  bullets in anything in a long time. In my realm of big game hunting, starting with antelope and going up to Elk, for me the 7-08 basically starts where the 25-06 leaves off - @ 120gr. The 7 is far more efficient in terms of velocity per grain of powder, can be had in a short action repeater which is my preference with around a 20" barrel which is all I care to want or need.  Will I ever have one? Off topic, but no.

[Big Blue]

7mm-08 would be my choice. Greater bullet choice, available in heavier weight and a larger caliber is my reason.
Don

[tacklebury]

One other positive with the 7mm is it has a better B.C. naturally.  I like the larger bullet capability also.

[spikehorn]

The choices of 30-06 and 280 are off topic. Of the two choices, I haven't shot under 100gr  bullets in anything in a long time. In my realm of big game hunting, starting with antelope and going up to Elk, for me the 7-08 basically starts where the 25-06 leaves off - @ 120gr. The 7 is far more efficient in terms of velocity per grain of powder, can be had in a short action repeater which is my preference with around a 20" barrel which is all I care to want or need.  Will I ever have one? Off topic, but no.

If I have to stick with only the on topic choices I would go with the 7mm-08 for all the reasons stated above

[manatee1947]

If I were to hunt big stuff , elk and up, the 7mm makes sense. For deer and down it is not needed. I have a savage 25-06 off the shelf gun with cheap optics that I have shot 4.5 " groups @ 600 yards from the bench, using 75 gr Vmax and with 85 gr Noslers, and 1.5 " 300 yd groups with 100gr Noslers or Game King. The MV on the Vmax is aroung 3650 and the 100 gr is 3250. I do not think the 7mm will shoot that flat. My Hornady manual lists the 120 gr 7-08 at a max MV of 3000fps. With a 100 yd zero it drops 53.4 inches at 500 yards and has 860 fp energy.My 100gr nosler drops 41 inches and has 925 fp at 500 yards. I would say that under field conditions 12 inches of drop is significant. If I could only have one rifle for all game the 7-08 would be more practical, but if that were the case I would opt for the 7mm Rem Mag.
The best reasoning I think in the end is this:If I accept your original premise , that at the 120 gr overlap they are ballistically twins, what are the odds of additional use? ie the odds of using the other bullets in each cartridge . For the 7-08, that would be the 154 or 175 gr . That would mean I would be going after an elk, moose, or bear. How many chances, how many rounds would I have a opportunity to fire at game over the next say , 10 years ?? In my case probably none, but certainly no more than 1-2  hunts, probably a box of cartridges. Now the 25-06, the 75 gr Vmax. Hunting coyotes, groundhogs , crows, feral dogs and cats. That opportunity occurs at least monthly, and I shoot a few hundred rounds per year.  

[Cat Whisperer]

I've had both.  (In Ruger #1 or #3)

7-08 has the very wide seletion of bullets.  .25-06 has the velocity, but limited range and selection of bullets.

I have great respect for the 7-08, 6.5x55, 7x57 class of rifles for hunting.  My 7-08 did under a 1/2" group (5 shots) the first group it shot.  Couldn't do quite that with the .25-06.

Still have the 7-08, but I had it cut back and rechambered to 7tcu - my needs changed.

[Swampman]

In a single shot I can't see any reason for using the 7mm-08.  I'd go with the .25-06.

[Big Blue]

In a single shot I can't see any reason for using the 7mm-08.

Do you have any reason for that?
Don

[Swampman]

Short action cartridges like the .308 were designed to function in full autos like the M-14 & M-60.  They give good accuracy in boltguns because short actions are a little stiffer.  In a single shot they offer nothing but reduced case capacity.  After years of using them I came to the conclusion that they don't really do anything a .30-06 based cartridge won't do, so I quit the short action cartridges for good.

[myarmor]

I am a fan of both 30-06 and 308. But it's nice to have the longer barrel in a few chamberings, namely the 25-06, 280, and 45/70

[GreenMachine79]

Short action cartridges like the .308 were designed to function in full autos like the M-14 & M-60.  They give good accuracy in boltguns because short actions are a little stiffer.  In a single shot they offer nothing but reduced case capacity.  After years of using them I came to the conclusion that they don't really do anything a .30-06 based cartridge won't do, so I quit the short action cartridges for good.

Assuming the same base size and taper shorter cartridges are have a higher energy efficiency.  It would use less powder (saves you a few $ if you reload) and theoretically it would have slightly less recoil.  If it were me I would get the 7-08, if I got bored with that I would ream it to a .284 winchester and pick up a few fps.  On the other hand the .25-06 can be fun as well, get them both, problem solved.  lol

[geezer56]

I have 24 Handi rifles, so far.  I love my 25-06.  In the field, it is lights out accurate on deer.  With lighter bullets, it is soft on the shoulder, and the caliber is useful for rats up to elk, with the right bullet selection.  I don't own a 7-08, and won't.  The 26 in barrel on the 25-06 and 280 make the difference.

[NFG]

I've had 5 25-06's over the past 45 years...3 store bought and 2 I built...but I don't have one now...   I used 75 gr Hornady Vmax(after they became availible, Noslers and Sierras before that) at 3500fs plus for varmints, 100 gr Noslers and Sierras at ~3300fs and 120 Nosler, Hornady and Sierras at ~3100ft...and all my rifles would put 5 rounds into a dime at 100 yds with prepped ammo.

I have two 7-08's right now...a single shot XP100 15" bbl and a 24" switch barrel for a Ruger receiver...both I built...the XP is a varmint killer par exellance, but so is the Ruger with the same load but takes deer just as quick with 154-160 gr bullets.  120 gr Noslers, chronographed, do 2600fs plus in the XP and ~3100fs in the 24" bbl, 160 gr Noslers do ~2700 in the 24"...I can get ~3000 out of a 280 or 284 in a 24" bbl without straining anything...and a bit more if I use all my tricks, but there is no need so why push.

I've also had two 280's... bought one and built one...I never felt undergunned and it killed everything I pointed it at...maybe not as quick as the 338 and above cals, but just as dead.

I like larger calibers and heavier bullets and have many rifles in the 338 and over calibers so I wouldn't use ANY of those questioned right now for anything larger than a Muley, but I've taken Elk with all them...120 gr with the 25 and 160 gr with the 7mm's....all the Elk I aimed at ended up as steaks, roasts and hamburger.

Ballistics tables don't really tell you anything but speed and energy and are biased in many ways for many reasons...and for me it gets tiresome when that "stuff" gets waved about to prove "something", but if you don't have experience then you have to use something to base a decision on.

The 25 uses a lot of powder because of the larger case...so does the 280...the 7-08 uses less powder and is more efficient, but you can't compare a 7-08 to a 280 OR a 25 because you can ALWAYS get more velocity out of the larger case than the smaller one...and therefore more energy.

It would be better to compare the 25-06 to the 25 Souper or 257 Roberts than the 7-08 and the 7-08 against the 280 or 284.

As far as the Handi goes, I would pick the 280 over the 25-06 any day because they both have the same barrel length and base capacity, and I can shoot 100 gr to 190 gr bullets in the 280 and cover ALL the bases as far as game is concerned, so the potential for a better, quicker kill is much higher in the 280...but that depends on the ability of the "shootee" rather than the "shooter".

But it really depends on WHAT you want the rifle for....for varminting I wouldn't go over 6mm, for deer/antelope the 7-08 is great, but for all around and for one rifle I would pick a 35 cal, Whelen or 358 Win and save for a 243/7-08 barrel for  the lighter stuff.

Luck

[Spanky]

I'm pretty sure a 7-08 stuffed with a 175gr. bullet ain't just for the "lighter stuff"



Spanky