300 H&H

[Yes, 357_SIG]

At one time, I thought that 300 H&H was kinda wierd.       
Seemed to me that 30-06 was all that I ever needed.

Now, I am getting interested in it [300 H&H].     

Is it really [potentially] more versatile?
Does the straighter case offer more reloading flexibility?
Is the recoil less "sharp" and more of a "push" ?

I keep hearing people rave about it [300 H&H] ?           
What makes it [300 H&H] so special ?

[mcwoodduck]

300 H&H is a neat round.  A Cz 550 Express is on my list of neat rifles to get in 300 H&H  Not sure what it will do that other rounds and rifles I own will not, but want one.
It can do everything the faster 300 Win / WSM can do
It is a long tapered case.
LONG is the operative word.
You need a Magnum reciever to chamber it.
300 H&H is basicly a 375H&H necked to 308 with a long tapered neck.
300 H&H is what is used to make 300 WBY and 8mm Rem Mag. 
Recoil is similar to 30-06 as it is about 100 to 150 FPS faster than the 06 with similar bullets in factory loads.
Hand loads greatly add to the round.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  357. The old .300 H & H is a classic round...John Jobson, a died in wool .270 and 30-06 man, felt the H & H far out classed the old 06...the idea that it was little better than and o6 has been handed down since I was a kid 50 years ago...the first one to say any different was my neighbor...he shot at Camp Perry...He used and H & H and had good things to say about it..I fooled with several and still have a near perfect Douglas barrel for the caliber...It was no trick to kick a 150 grain bullet along at 3300-3400 fps...I liked the way the rounds fed into the chamber..it is a neat cartridge...the major draw back is it takes a mag. length action...the 700 will handle it and some others, but not all...I am most familiar with the 700...as for more of a push ...I don't buy that ifyou burn 72 - 74 grain of powder in a mag case, the recoil is there...to me recoil is so over rated people fear the round before they ever try it..recoil is helped by proper stock design, and wt. of the rifle...I don't deal with muzzle brakes..It is more versatile, than the 06 in it lets you drive bullets of the same weight faster, but I don't feel you can down load it as easily as the old 06, if that is what you mean...to me it  along with the other mag. rifles... are for folks that have been there and done some shooting, and now want a new challange...while some go to  close up, shooting with say a handgun, muzzle loader, or open sighted model 94, others feel the challange is shooting at longer range to place ones shot skillfully and exactly at long distance...the mag. will not make up for poor shooting skills, but a good shooter can reach out more effecitively with one of these rifles...If you feel an 06 is all you need, it may well be...often that is the case, but once in a while a real trophy can be taken with a good rifle and someone who knows how to use it...that would not be bagged with a less round...to me if you plan to get a mag..one should plan on some shooting to see what it will do, and if you are capable of using the added power and range...many are not...Finally, unless I really knew the H & H was what I wanted, I would go with the 300 Win...brass is cheap, ammo everywhere, rifles easy to purchase, and it can be had in your favorite action...I like the H & H, but I love the Win...

[Drilling Man]

  Bottom line is, with "equil length" bbls., the H&H isn't enough more than a 30-06 to get me to buy one, and it doesn't do anything that the 300 Win. Mag. can't do just as well or better!

  DM

[roper]

When Win reintroduced the 300 H&H I picked up one later Rem made the classic in 300H&H wished I would of gotten one of those.  I chrono some of my loads with 180gr got in the very low 3000fps never tried anything else and those were max loads.  I gave the 300H&H to my nephew so still in the family.

As to the 30-06 another good caliber and there so many caliber that overlap each other so for me if I wanted a 300H&H I'd get one and not worrry about comparing it to something else.  Well good luck

[Swampman]

The .300H&H feeds really well.  That's what makes it great.

[FN in MT]

  I've got three of them...started with a Rem 700 Classic in .300 H&H. Sends 180 NP's out at 3000 fps or a bit less from a 24" bbl.  Solid 1 moa shooter out to 300 yds or so. Killed several elk and a mess of deer with it.

  Then fell into a Sako long action, in a Brown Precision stock and a 24" HART bbl in .300 H&H. HECK of a shooter...again...180 partitions at 3000 fps or a bit more.    Killed 3 or 4 elk with it and a pair of LR whitetails...350-400 yd kills. All with 180 NP's.  Probably the Hart bbl, screwed into a blueprinted action...then properly installed into a stable glass stock...but that one shoots 5/8" - 3/4" for 5 shots at 100 yds...all day long.  And at 300 yds 2"   -  2 1/2" groups. With ME behind the stock...thats an accurate rifle!!

  Then I was willed a pre 64 70 with a 26" bbl, a 1955 gun, like new gun, again...3K+ with 180's but I'm afraid to take it out.

  I have used the .300 H&H far more than  any .30-06 but it's worked well for me. I have no idea what a 24" 06 can do with 180 gr slugs.... 2800 fps??  If the H&H is +200 fps with 180's over the 06 and 180's then IMHO the mag is worth getting.    Unless your shooting at 100-200 yds...than why bother.

  Brass is a bit tougher to find.  Though once a guy has 60 or 100 rds ...probably a lifetime supply.

  Classic African cartridge, as well as highly regarded as a Target round. There are surely Worst choices to make than the .300 H&H as an all a round NA gun.


FN in MT

 

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  FN Nice report on those H & H's...I got into the Win. in 1970 so have been with it many years...the H & H was always a soft spot for me....one of my early mentors liked the H & H, but for many years when H & H's were more plentyful than now, I could not afford guns I wanted and "needed" let alone a second  .300. Now I have 3...but as I said I still have a perfect H & H barrel 26 inches long...may look for a nice 700 action to put it back on for the fall...interesting reading....

[FN in MT]

FN Nice report on those H & H's...I got into the Win. in 1970 so have been with it many years...the H & H was always a soft spot for me....one of my early mentors liked the H & H, but for many years when H & H's were more plentyful than now, I could not afford guns I wanted and "needed" let alone a second  .300. Now I have 3...but as I said I still have a perfect H & H barrel 26 inches long...may look for a nice 700 action to put it back on for the fall...interesting reading....

   Thanks.  Glad you enjoyed the post.

  Don't get me started on my OTHER H&H love affair....the Three Seven Five!! Down to a single M-70 Safari grade. Been back and forth to Africa with me and another one that filled the freezer with elk several times. 

FN in MT

[Yes, 357_SIG]

Would it be fair to compare the 375 H&H with a 300Win mag ?         

Would it be fair to compare the 375 H&H with a 338 Lapua mag ?           

I suppose those are really different purpose cartridges ?                 

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  I don't think FN was making a comparison of the .300 and 375...I just commented I liked his story on the .300, and his reply was he loved the .300 H & H and his other favorite was the .375 H & H...I saw no comparision on another caliber he thought a lot of, and I would like to hear about it and why.....

[FN in MT]

Would it be fair to compare the 375 H&H with a 300Win mag ?        

Would it be fair to compare the 375 H&H with a 338 Lapua mag ?            

I suppose those are really different purpose cartridges ?                  

   Very different cartridges........ the .300 Win Mag and especially the .338 Lapua far more modern  and designed for different purposes.

  OK here we go.... lot of "IMHO" stuff to follow...

  The .338 Lapua is probably more than 90% of hunters out here can REALLY manage. Unless you have weight  and/or a muzzle brake to mitigate recoil....in a sporting weight rifle the .338 L is NO FUN at all.  If you can handle the recoil, and take your larger game at longish ranges I can see a use   for the Lapua round. Otherwise NOT for me.

   Then again...If I was doing 400-500 yds on elk, moose  etc,  and wated to fling 250 or 275 gr slugs....the Lapua is THE tool for that job.  A tremendous sniper round.  Shot an Accuracy Intl with 275 gr slugs at 600 yds and my first 3 shot group went 5".  I WAS impressed. Then again a very expensive and heavy rifle, with $2K worth of optics alone.   Really unfair to compare such a modern ctg to the old .375 H&H.

    The three seven five is a great "medium" rifle for Africa, or even Alaska. Pretty good all arounder for the world really.  With 270-300 gr slugs the downrange drop figures are not all that different from a .30-06 and 180's.  Not exactly .220 Swift FLAT...but certainly not  .45-70 with a 500 grain "rainbow trajectory" either.

  I've dialed 15" of UP clicks into my Winchester a time or three and rolled elk over at 325-350 yds. It works that far out there.

  The .300 Win Mag one of my favorites and I have some time behind them  on game and targets. Anything that flings 180 gr slugs at 3000 fps or a bit more is a GREAT N. American and African plains game round...with GOOD BULLETS. Velocity is nice for extending your point blank range but the slugs also have to put UP with all that velocity. Run into something at 50 yds and a std cup and core slug may fail at 2900 fps as it was designed for far less velocity. Nothing is free. Like Montgomery Scott used to say on Star Trek; "Ya can't change the Laws of Physics".

   The .300 H&H doesn't compare all that poorly to the .300 Win Mag.  In reality an extra 100 fps is probably indistinguishable by your quarry at all but the longest ranges. Could probably throw the new .300 Short Mags in the same basket as well. Most anything that can hit 3000 fps with the heavier slugs is an impressive killer at average ranges that average game is taken.   Throw in the extra 300-400 fps of the really BIG RUM and WBY mags and  you really have a heck of a LR big game rifle...IF You can handle it. Again...not many really CAN.

  Velocity in a big game rifle is great internet bragging rights and fun to plot on drop tables....but here we go with some  IMHO stuff again.... I have killed a lot of game with a .338-06 shooting a 250 gr NP at no more than 2450 fps at the muzzle. Everything from little  60 pound Impala, to mature bull elk and even a truly large Livingston Eland. NEVER once had to use more than ONE shot. One oof the elk was a lasered 340 yds too. Talking  zero drama...they drop over, or do a short death run and they are down.  Would a .338 Lapua shooting at an extra several hundred feet per second kill any better?? Maybe?  But theres a stiff price to pay for all that velocity.



  Killed a lot of game too with a lowly .257 Roberts and 100-115 gr NP's.  Whats THAT statement prove? I have no idea.  I'm simply sitting home...while my overpaid Plumber is installing a new water heater. This was a fun time waster.

FN in MT

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

FN, Nice stories and nice information...It is fun to hear about a wide variety of calibers and their use on game of different species.....I have never used the 338 Lapua or the 338-06...my biggest .33 was the 340 which I still have an use...great information..thanks for sharing...

[searlock]

The 375 was made around 1912 before the 300. It was given a belt on the base of the brass to control head space in bolt action rifles. The old double rifles in 375 used a rimmed cartridge which controlled head space. The shallow angle of the neck caused the need for the belt or the rim to control head space. The shallow angle was used because the propelant that was used was cordite an early form of smokeless powder. Cordite was formed in long strands much like small sticks hence the name stick powder. The sticks were loaded in the brass and then the brass shoulder was formed down which is the reason for the shallow angle on the case. According to speer the shape of the case on the 300 makes it burn the powder more efficiently delivering more velocity with less powder.the 300 h&h is still a great round as is the 375.they are the two cartridges today that do need the belt.

[Yes, 357_SIG]

Wow.               

Great info ...                     
and fascinating history.               

Thanks all,
                     Chuck

[Yes, 357_SIG]

                               
                                             
How hard / expensive would it be to rechamber a [single shot] 308Win Remington [Baikal] SPR18 to 30-06 ?
                                                                     
                                                                                     

[700xcr]

                               
                                             
How hard / expensive would it be to rechamber a [single shot] 308Win Remington [Baikal] SPR18 to 30-06 ?
                                                                     
                                                                                     

Why don't you start a new topic with your question? This topic is talking about 300 H&H.

[nomosendero]

Ah, yea!!!!

[moorepower]

When you compare the win mags to the H&H you may want to load the H&H to the same "modern firearm" pressure, than you might be surprised with the H&H. I have been in love with the H&H since I saw a picture in a Remington ammo flyer at a hunter safety class about 35 years ago, and someday soon I will build or own one. This is about the only time I kind of agree with swampy, I can't imagine a better feeding big game round in the world.

[Yes, 357_SIG]

                                                        
How about downloading the 300 H&H?

With the straighter case, do you have more flexibility for lighter loads and smaller bullets?

Could it actually be more versatile than either the 30-06 or the 300Win mag?
                                                                                                                 

[nomosendero]

                                                       
How about downloading the 300 H&H?

With the straighter case, do you have more flexibility for lighter loads and smaller bullets?

Could it actually be more versatile than either the 30-06 or the 300Win mag?
                                                                                                                 

Can't imagine why it would be more versatile & the case has more slope.

[Yes, 357_SIG]

                                 
Back when I was handloading [100 years ago] ... it seems to me that "bottlenecked cases [30-06, 300 Win mag] were a lot more finicky than "straight necked" [300 H&H] cases.
                                                                                   

[nomosendero]

                                 
Back when I was handloading [100 years ago] ... it seems to me that "bottlenecked cases [30-06, 300 Win mag] were a lot more finicky than "straight necked" [300 H&H] cases.
                                                                                   

I am handloading now & no they are not, but alot can change I guess. 

[Yes, 357_SIG]

                   
What is the lightest decent load that you know of?

Is there some way to get a 300 H&H to serve dual purpose?

                                           

[nomosendero]

                   
What is the lightest decent load that you know of?

Is there some way to get a 300 H&H to serve dual purpose?

                                           

Very vague questions

1. What is the lightest decent load that you know of? Decent for what purpose? A "decent" load for one purpose would be lousy for another.

2. Is there some way to get a 300 H&H to serve dual purpose? Well, I could pop a Coyote one day & a Deer the next with one load, that's dual purpose. However, if you want light bullet loads for Varmits & heavy loads for Big Game, the manuals are full of those, but before that......

With this kind a question, I believe you should start with the most basic of sources & go up. I would do that before consulting reloading manuals. You could buy a ABC's of Reloading & various how to books & then look at the Manuals, then you will recognize starting loads, how to load light loads safely, etc.

I don't think a mentioning of loads will serve any purpose, the basics should be studied first.

[Yes, 357_SIG]

Until I veered into this thread of topics, I had not given any thought to 300 H&H; ...
... since the late 60's when one of my hunting buddies had one that he was quite fond of..

It has been a very long time since I was set up for reloading, and I just don't remember the finer points.
Unfortunately, I no longer have access to any manuals, etc., etc.
Frankly, I really haven't given much thought to reloading since all of my gear was stolen while I was overseas with the first Gulf War [1990 - 1992].
Back when I was last actually doing much handloading [35+ years ago] ... it seems to me that "bottlenecked" cases [30-06, 300 Win mag] were a lot more finicky than "straight necked" [300 H&H] cases.

With the straighter case of the 300 H&H, do you have a lot more flexibility for lighter loads and smaller bullets?

Could it actually be more versatile than either the 30-06 or the 300Win mag?

It may be that there just isn't that much difference between the case design and the characteristics of 300 H&H mag and 30-06 cartridges.

Seems to me that there was some concern with "overbore" capacity that made it difficult to work up light loads in some high performance cartridges.
That may have been mostly ... or even only ...in the hyper 22s [220 Swift etc.,] ;
... I just can't remember how and when all of that kicked in.

Not sure if I will ever get back into reloading ...
or, if I need to ... or, if I even have enough vertical time remaining.

With the price of 300 H&H mag factory ammo, a fella would certainly want to reload.
Also, it is really hard to find 300 H&H mag factory ammo in anything less than 180 grain bullets.

Just wonder if it would be possible ... with the 300 H&H ... to duplicate the 110 and 125 grain loads that are available in 30-06 factory ammo.
                                                         ? ? ?

[yooper77]

The 308 Winchester or 30-06 Springfield will serve you better than the 300 H&H magnum or even the 300 Winchester Magnum.

All 4 with 165 – 180 grain bullets will handle any Elk, or Moose.

If you truly hand load, then lights bullets would also be best for the 308 Winchester or 30-06 Springfield cartridges.  Yes you can download either 300 H&H Magnum or 300 Winchester Magnum, but why?  I could understand if you already have a heirloom rifle and wanted to tailor it for your hunting.

yooper77

[Yes, 357_SIG]

                       
Thank you.
I have been away from all of this for so long that input from the folks who have kept up with all of this is really invaluable.
It really helps to find out what everyone else likes, and is using, and why.

All of this soul searching, brain picking, search and research is geared to help me choose a good "all purpose" [varmint to elk + ] rifle, probably a Ruger #1 Standard.

I had heard a lot of good things about 300 H&H and wanted to learn more about it.
Unless it can be easily downloaded to 125 grains [or so], at around 3000 fps [or so];
... it is probably a lot more cartridge than I really need.

At this time, it has come down to a #1B in 30-06, or ....
the K1B [laminated stock with stainless steel barrel and action] which I really like;
... but is available only in 270 Win, or 300 Win mag.

Thanks,
           Chuck       

[nomosendero]

The 308 Winchester or 30-06 Springfield will serve you better than the 300 H&H magnum or even the 300 Winchester Magnum.

All 4 with 165 – 180 grain bullets will handle any Elk, or Moose.

If you truly hand load, then lights bullets would also be best for the 308 Winchester or 30-06 Springfield cartridges.  Yes you can download either 300 H&H Magnum or 300 Winchester Magnum, but why?  I could understand if you already have a heirloom rifle and wanted to tailor it for your hunting.

yooper77

Yes lights loads & light bullet loads lend themselves to smaller cases, but this can be done in a bigger case as well. The "why" of downloading a bigger case like the 300WM would be if it was your only rifle, but yet you wanted the extra performance of the magnum. I have vaious 30 cal. rifles & don't need to do this, but I do use a 300WM & therefore if I had to use 1 rifle, the lessor rounds would go & the 300 would stay.

That of course would depend on what you want to do with the gun on the upper end & the maximum ranges that YOU would use it, not someone else. Determine the uses of this weapon & then decide.

[yooper77]

If I were to buy a rifle in a belted magnum cartridge, it would be the 338 Winchester Magnum unless a great deal on a 340 Weatherby Magnum surfaced.  If you really wanted a 30 caliber belted magnum cartridge, I would look for a 30-338 Winchester Magnum better known as the 308 Norma Magnum.  This cartridge nips the heels of the 300 Winchester Magnum velocity, but using less powder.  One can hand load it using .264 Winchester Magnum, 7mm Remington Magnum, 338 Winchester Magnum or even the 458 Winchester Magnum brass, yes the later will require much more case forming.

Bullets availability is great in 338 caliber, and yes they can be used on varmint.  If you are harvesting them for pelts then, some heavy bullets punch right through and leave smaller holes to sew up then faster lighter 30 caliber bullets.

I currently don’t have any belted magnum cartridge, because my 338-06 A-Square fits the bill for any North American game to include the largest bears.  I don’t use it on varmint, but I would if I felt the need.

yooper77