Don't shoot the messanger

[Silvertp]

My son has rattlers on his property and does a lot of backpacking in the Montana Mtns.

He has decided on a Standard Judge or possibly the new Public Defender variant for both shooting snakes (410) and for bear / crazies protection w/.45 LC.

His question is this.

How hot (warm) of .45 LC hand-loads can these guns handle pressure wise?  I'm thinking Ruger Blackhawk kinds of loads.  Thinking heavy loaded would provide better penetration (than factory rounds) needed to get a bears attention.  Would there be a difference between the Judge and smaller framed Public Defender in what the handguns could handle pressure wise? 

Anyone have experience or knowledge re: these handguns and reloads?

Cheers!
Silvertp

[pneuby]

TWO vastly different loadings planned for two completely different "job requirements". Do you load the first chamber or two with shot for use on a snake? Then you have one or two rounds to burn to piss-off the bruin worse, and amp-up its adrenalin worse. Then, maybel you can hit it with round-three & what you will HOPE will do the job. Or, do you have one or two bear-rounds on-tap, which in all likelyhood will miss a snake. Having shot at the snake, it'll likely react with a strike-out at the shooter. The snake probably won't miss.

Suggestion. Two guns for two different roles, if at all possible.

[stimpylu32]

Silver

I've never been a big fan of the Judge in any form , that aside , it does do a great job as a close cover weapon for snakes of the rattler and 2 legged type .

As for handloads , I don't think it will handle the upper end loads well , being a mid-streingth revolver , even my Tracker that is chambered in 45 LC only will not handle anything more that what a Mod 25 S&W will -- NO RUGER LEVEL LOADS --

Another big drawback is that having such long chambers the colt rounds do tend to shoot in large , un-prodictable groups , caused by the long jump to the rifling .

stimpy

PS -- I have shot 4 different models of the Judge and don't care for any of them . 

[Silvertp]

Thanks for the reply's guys.  I talked to my son this weekend and he has decided to hold off on any handgun purchases for now.  He was having the same "second thoughts" that you guys mentioned.

Pneuby...He and I talked about the "dual role".  He's got a shotgun at home for snakes.  Said he  probably wouldn't carry the Judge around the yard anyhow, but would run to the house for his gun when snakes are encountered, so he may as well just use the shotgun for snakes around the house.

Stimpy...I let him know about the 45LC group sizes you have experienced based on the long chamber  and the fact that the Judge isn't made for "heavy" .45LC loads.  I think he has figured out that there are better handguns avail for protection from bears so he is now trying to decide what to do. 

I'm thinking he wants something more decisive than bear spray but its his decision. 

Cheers!
Silvertp

[SHOOTALL]

45 colt snake shot loads work well and can be hand loaded with speer shot capsuls . You can use a larger shot size than CCI uses if you wish. Get a Ruger Redhawk with 4 inch bbl and load some 45 Colt rounds to almost 44 mag power level .

[Silvertp]

Shootall...

That sounds like a better option to me.  Provides a more accurate shooting 45 platform that will handle heavier loads for the "bear protection" end of things.  

I am not experienced with the performance of any of the "shot capsul" rounds.  Out of a rifled bbl what kind of killing range do they provide for whacking rattlers?  

Personally, the few rattlers I have had to shoot were not that difficult to connect with a jacketed bullet.  Ive only shot one with a shot shell and that was a .410 stuffed with 7 1/2 shot out of my Contender.  Unfortunately I didn't get the snake until just after he struck my dog on the nose.  Dog was fine, but his nose was swollen like a softball.

Silvertp

[SHOOTALL]

Years ago i would take a 357 mag. Ruger BH with 45/8 bbl and hunt copperheads . Had a bird dog that would stand then ( fron a distance) I could kill them at 10 - 12 feet . I never patterned a load as they are expensive ( why i started reloading them ). Later i switched to 44 mag and it worked about the same , maybe a tad better but again i never patterned it , just shot snakes . I tried 22 LR and mag nither impressed me . Tried 9mm  and 40 but they won't cycle my gun . Tried 45 acp same thing . Tried a Bond derringer and it was almost useless i shot at a rat from the seat of my tractor , a compact New Holland and it looked like dust flew up from a 10 foot square area at maybe 15 feet or less. The last 5 or 6 snakes were shot with a 1 7/8 inch bbl S&W J frame some with a 38 spl. gun and some with a 357 mag. gun . All but one was 1 shot , one the snake went to strike at me and I hit him low . Knocked him down but not dead . He was a 43 inch copper head on my walk . I had steped on him in the dark thinking it was the garden hose rolling under my foot . They come up to the house to eat the abundance of toads and frogs we have . One bit my lab . I have never shot a rattler but would think in a 44mag or 45 Colt ( the 45 Colt will hold more shot ) a load of 7 1/2s would do well .
Now just my opinion , the 410s don't have the advantage of the ticker plastic shot cup with a lid on it . The shot in the speer shot cup may not spread as fast as it does out of a 410 shell with only a thin open shot wad . I think the plastic cup exits the bbl like a bullet taking a small amount of time to break up and release the shot . The 410 wad opens as it leaves the bore and slings shot off to the sides . The other thing is the speer loads don't have the large blast the shotgun shells do .The suggested loads are included with the speer product , at least the last ones i got they were .

One other thing is resale of the weapon at a later date , no need to take a soaking 

[Silvertp]

Good report SHOOTALL...I'll pass this on to my son.

Years ago i would take a 357 mag. Ruger BH with 45/8 bbl and hunt copperheads . Had a bird dog that would stand then ( fron a distance) I could kill them at 10 - 12 feet .

That is a good practical range for shooting snakes.  Sounds like the little shot capsuls probably hang together producing a decent killing pattern.



He was a 43 inch copper head on my walk . I had steped on him in the dark thinking it was the garden hose rolling under my foot .

That sounds like a pretty close call.  Ive never stepped on one, but I did snag my son one day who was a bout to step on a rattler.  Picked him up and moved him safely over the snake which didn't even strike.


They come up to the house to eat the abundance of toads and frogs we have . One bit my lab . I have never shot a rattler but would think in a 44mag or 45 Colt ( the 45 Colt will hold more shot ) a load of 7 1/2s would do well .
Now just my opinion , the 410s don't have the advantage of the ticker plastic shot cup with a lid on it . The shot in the speer shot cup may not spread as fast as it does out of a 410 shell with only a thin open shot wad . I think the plastic cup exits the bbl like a bullet taking a small amount of time to break up and release the shot . The 410 wad opens as it leaves the bore and slings shot off to the sides . The other thing is the speer loads don't have the large blast the shotgun shells do .The suggested loads are included with the speer product , at least the last ones i got they were .

Good info here as well.  I think my son would be well served with the .45 shot loads for dealing with his snake problem, and equally well served with some hard-cast heavies out of the .45 Ruger for bear protection. 

Much appreciated!
Silvertp

[264fan]

Best solution, sawed off 12 ga pump, 2 trap loads followed by 3 slugs. If a bear threatens the trap loads can be shucked out real quick. Plus the 12 ga has any handgun trumped for power and ease of hitting the target in an emergency.