Author Topic: I will never buy an H&R firearm ever again. (Read 3566 times)

Blue Brick · « **on:** July 16, 2010, 12:45:04 PM »

I currently own a Pardner shotgun and I wanted to take advantage of the H&R’s barrel accessory program and equip my Pardner shotgun with a 45LC/410 Survivor barrel. When I called H&R today, I received two different explanations on how the rifle functioned. I need some basic information: length of the rifling, the quality of the steel, length of the chamber, accuracy with 45 Colt cartridges, what kind of choke was supplied, and did the barrel come with the choke and wrench (which is should). All I received was rude and conflicting answers. One representative stated the Survivor barrel was fully rifled with a modified choke and the other representative said it was a smooth bore barrel with a rifled choke. Even after speaking with an extremely rude Manger, I still received different and conflicting answers. I did find out one thing…the Survivor barrel at $96 did not come with a choke wrench. Nope that’s another $27 which is not listed on their order form or website. I was hoping when H&R and Marlin were sold that they would continue to have good customer service, but I was wrong.

Survivor barrel 45LC/410 $96
Shipping my receiver to their factory $10
Barrel fitting $25
Shipping barrel and receiver back to me $19
Choke wrench $27

$177 for full usage of one barrel

Price for losing a customer for life…… Priceless.

PawPaw · « **Reply #1 on:** July 16, 2010, 01:47:07 PM »

Well, okay!

I can't remember the last time I used a choke wrench. I've got a couple of them around here, but I've never seen that I need one.

I guess that on the Ilion Satisfaction Poll, we'd put you down as a NO.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #2 on:** July 16, 2010, 02:26:54 PM »

What does a whole gun cost in the 410? $250
Remington is the same way 870 and 1100 barrels.
The Barrels are about 75% to 80% of the cost of the price of a new gun.
Much like how Car parts are 10X what the car costs.
If you buy a new truck 30K, if you buy all the parts to build a new truck it will be about 300K

aromakr · « **Reply #3 on:** July 16, 2010, 02:36:48 PM »

Well, I guess the only response I have is. Do you think H&R should eat all those costs?? They have to pay to ship it back to you and they have to pay someone to fit the barrel too your action. Then their's the cost of making the barrel. I believe they are in business to make a profit. The bad information you received is inexcusable.
Bob

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #4 on:** July 16, 2010, 02:41:55 PM »

Did you get a quote or just give them a list of what you want?
Be careful of what you want... you just might get it!

necchi · « **Reply #5 on:** July 16, 2010, 02:42:54 PM »

Oh, And welcome to the forum

Hope you can spend some time reading,,you might find all the answers to your questions here

Spanky · « **Reply #6 on:** July 16, 2010, 02:50:43 PM »

Quit complaining and buy one in the classifieds.

Spanky

gendoc · « **Reply #7 on:** July 16, 2010, 02:57:15 PM »

awh !!! come on.... give it another try. you mite be glad you did.

the 45/410 barrel is not that user friendly right out of the box..anyway
it took alot of hours/days to get both of mine to put a hole where it was pointed at within 1/2" @ 50yrds
consistantly.

GreenMachine79 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 16, 2010, 03:34:42 PM »

I agree with Bob, the bad information has no excuse but the prices are what they are and should be respected. It amazes me that H&R can build a gun in this country for such a low price. Just look at the price of a aftermarket barrel blank, $150-$350, compare that to a H&R barrel that has been profiled, chambered, cut, crowned, all the other parts machined and welded on, sight rail or iron sights all for $96. Yeah the quality of the two bores arent exactly the same but they still can both fire a bullet. I guess my point is H&R knows what they have to charge to stay in business, if they charged much less and I'm sure they would go under.

trotterlg · « **Reply #9 on:** July 16, 2010, 04:43:38 PM »

Lets look at getting a 12 gauge barrel for a shotgun. Barrel $55.00, fitting $25.00 Shipping to them $10.00 shipping back $19.00 I think that makes $109.00 for a 12 gauge barrel. Walmart has the whole gun for $10.00 more, and you can walk out the store with it that day.
Larry

GreenMachine79 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 16, 2010, 05:23:15 PM »

Quote from: trotterlg on July 16, 2010, 04:43:38 PM

Lets look at getting a 12 gauge barrel for a shotgun. Barrel $55.00, fitting $25.00 Shipping to them $10.00 shipping back $19.00 I think that makes $109.00 for a 12 gauge barrel. Walmart has the whole gun for $10.00 more, and you can walk out the store with it that day.
Larry

You also have to take into account that putting on a accessory barrel is custom work which is much less efficient requires more paperwork and shuffling the gun around then one that is being put together on a assembly line. Henry Ford figured this out in the early 20th century.

trotterlg · « **Reply #11 on:** July 16, 2010, 05:30:25 PM »

Why the barrels cost so much is a problem for H&R to solve, just because they are not efficient doing it doesn't make the barrel a deal when you can buy the whole gun for only $10.00 more. Why would anyone buy a shotgun barrel at these kind of prices? Larry

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #12 on:** July 16, 2010, 05:40:09 PM »

Would you rather have a lesser quality barrel for $50? Maybe sacrificing accuracy and barrel life?
It already is an inexpensive gun.
Reminds me of hearing the local Ford dealership's parts manager in the 1980's talking of the low priced Ford that was imported... maybe the Fiesta... lowest priced car Ford built and the most expensive by far oil filter

TxGun · « **Reply #13 on:** July 16, 2010, 06:50:47 PM »

No doubt this has been posited before, but just wondering if H&R is really committed to a barrel program??? I guess they have to have one...I mean, not offering extra barrels on a single shot is a little hard to explain. But perhaps they don't really want to support the program...a "red-headed step-child", so to speak? It may inordinately interfere with production demands of complete guns and they may be satisfied to leave it as a basically unattractive option. Or...maybe not.

Blue Brick · « **Reply #14 on:** July 16, 2010, 08:32:33 PM »

My main issue was lack of friendliness and reliable information. The barrel price should include the choke and wrench. The other charges are not the issue, but the horrible customer service and unreliable information is.

trotterlg · « **Reply #15 on:** July 16, 2010, 08:38:30 PM »

I think at this point it is a sort of marketing gimmick. It is somethig a salesman can tell customers to make the rifle look more attractive at the time of sale, "You can add a Shotgun Barrel for only $55.00" sounds good, but later when all the costs are added it isn't so appealing. My guess is they wish they could just dump the whole thing, the problem with the program is that they produce a product that has tolerences that do not allow barrel interchange without a gunsmith doing the fitting. Other more modern designs do not have this problem (Thompson and now Rossi Wizard and a couple of others). They really need to just be able to box up a barrel and send it to you, then it would be a good deal. Larry

Sourdough · « **Reply #16 on:** July 16, 2010, 08:51:22 PM »

I did the extra barrel thing several years ago. No more, I just buy the whole gun now in the caliber or guage I want.

S.E.Ak · « **Reply #17 on:** July 16, 2010, 09:08:00 PM »

I just buy forum barrels

Spanky · « **Reply #18 on:** July 16, 2010, 09:15:19 PM »

Quote from: S.E.Ak on July 16, 2010, 09:08:00 PM

I just buy forum barrels

Have you seen the prices lately? Over $200 bucks for a 45 colt barrel and a versa pack 22 barrel for $175

... No thanks... I did a breakdown a while back and it's alot cheaper to buy a whole new rifle. Matter of fact I think Tim said something about 45 Carbines being on sale for $199... that's a whole rifle cheaper than some guy wants for his barrel.

Spanky

slow hand · « **Reply #19 on:** July 16, 2010, 09:32:28 PM »

You might get a gun cabinet or safe and star a collection of different makes and models. Just a thought .... as far as my .270 handi - I'll keep getting deer with it every fall. Like it very much...

petemi · « **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2010, 03:50:49 AM »

I've gotten my Handis every which way. I've bought used whole guns, stocks, barrels and frames. I sent a frame in to the factory for 3 barrels, and I've bought several new rifles. I think that is the way to go. A good example is the 199.00 BC Carbine. You could buy it and part it out here and make money on it. The stocks, frames and barrels go for at least a hundred each.

As far as Remington is concerned....I don't even want to go there. I diddled around with them for almost a year trying to put Tim's presentation rifle together, and in the end, since Tim's contact had left for Colt, they backed out and we did it ourselves.

Pete

aromakr · « **Reply #21 on:** July 17, 2010, 07:55:16 AM »

Has anyone sat down and priced a car out, piece by piece. I think you will find the same situation, it would probably cost you 4 or 5 times what you can buy the whole car for. Its no different for any commodity, much more expensive by the piece. either live with it or don't buy it!!!
Bob

gcrank1 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 18, 2010, 09:07:00 AM »

Yep,
How long ago were we hearing that 'value added', ie, quality customer service, etc., was the wave of the future. Some companies get it, most dont. Oh, and they gotta pay the CRS better if they want to keep good, knowledgable people on staff. Who is doing that, nowdays? Of course, then the product price goes up again, and we complain about that all over again.......
It will be interesting to see what we all are saying a year from now!

Datil · « **Reply #23 on:** July 18, 2010, 10:10:24 AM »

That's ok just don't buy another H&R, That just leaves more Handi's for the Handi-holics
on here such myself ,Quickdtoo and others.
Datil

Mac11700 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2010, 10:53:56 AM »

Quote from: Datil on July 18, 2010, 10:10:24 AM

That's ok just don't buy another H&R, That just leaves more Handi's for the Handi-holics
on here such myself ,Quickdtoo and others.
Datil

WoW...

The guy stated he had a real bad experience with the company,and gets to read this here ? There was a time I too would question a new person saying this,but after my own experiences with calling the company and after reading some of the things posted on this thread with some of the lame excuses given for the company..well that is in-excusable. Where has the compassion gone on this forum of late? Don't like it..Don't buy it ? Saves more for us ? Good Grief..

Nice way of convincing a new forum member to stick around here and participate...

I don't think this is going to win me any fans here..but I don't blame him one bit for being ticked off..not one bit..$27 for a choke tube wrench...give me a frigging break..that is ridiculous.Until Remington gets their collective heads out of their butts and hires some competent C/S people..then this is going to happen a lot more. We never had this type of a problem as much before at Gardner..Now..it seems they can say anything they want with out being accurate and rudely too....without fear of customer dis-satisfaction...and good luck trying to take your issues up to corporate level and actually speaking to someone who gives a rats behind about it..cause I've tried on a couple occasions and met the same type of responses to my questions.. they also have it set up where you can't take it up the line to the managers or directors on purpose. They don't want to be bothered with it..

I always used to think the Handi's were a great rifle..and the customer support was superb...not only from the company but from the membership here too...well..it seems all of this is past tense now..and that's a real shame..

Mac

petemi · « **Reply #25 on:** July 18, 2010, 12:04:42 PM »

Mac, the membership support is as strong as it ever has been. I don't believe anyone except Tim has diddled around with H&R CS as much as I have. And, yes, I was able to get up the chain of command.....not that it did me much good.

I did get misinformation even at the very top of the sales ladder, which cost me time and effort. But you know what? My first rifle was a Rem 521T, and then I had a .22 semi-auto, and a Model 7, and a 700. I don't own any of them any more. I feel quality is down and CS is the pits. I love my Handi's and I'll look for Gardner mades and stay away from Remingdingdong.

Pete

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #26 on:** July 18, 2010, 12:18:10 PM »

Remember when Mossburg offered shotgun barrels for $19.99? They ran ads in almost every hunting magazine. I am guessing they sold a bunch.
I am still saying that the total price, forget the wrench, is not unreasonable. THe fact that you can buy an entire rifle for a bit more would prohibit me from buying NEW barrels

Mac11700 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 18, 2010, 12:47:13 PM »

Quote from: petemi on July 18, 2010, 12:04:42 PM

Mac, the membership support is as strong as it ever has been. I don't believe anyone except Tim has diddled around with H&R CS as much as I have. And, yes, I was able to get up the chain of command.....not that it did me much good. I did get misinformation even at the very top of the sales ladder, which cost me time and effort. But you know what? My first rifle was a Rem 521T, and then I had a .22 semi-auto, and a Model 7, and a 700. I don't own any of them any more. I feel quality is down and CS is the pits. I love my Handi's and I'll look for Gardner mades and stay away from Remingdingdong.

Pete

Pete

I've called them a 1/2 dozen times,and got to talk to the floor supervisor for the H&R's production before...He is in the dark as much as anyone here is,and can't even answer simple questions on time lines..let alone any of the reasons behind them.That isn't what I am talking about..I am talking about corporate people..the ones who can effect change in the entire line. Secretaries is as far as I have gotten..and no further..no return calls or e-mails and that was with spending many hours on the phone dealing with their whole run around program. I've also discussed this with Tim before and know his results too.. Remington has several different divisions when it comes to their lines..each is totally different with regards to C/S and how things are handled..None are like the H&R division. It's a dead end street for the average consumer wanting to get to the 3 or 4th tier of C/S for their Handi Rifles.

I've owned tons of Handi's over my life and have defended them as strong as anyone in their right mind would care to do,same for this forum my friend. I have also recommended these rifles over most others because of a few simple things..They are: being able to have a additional barrel fitted for a reasonable cost and time frame from the factory and the customer support from the factory and also from the members here. Both of these things are lacking when a new forum member with a legitimate gripe voices his opinion about a over priced choke wrench that by all rights should be included with the barrel and when post his displeasure with rude and obnoxious C/S support from the factory is told...Don't buy them... cause that's more for me and the rest of the gang here along with the moderator to buy.. Someone owes this man an apology..cause what was said to him was just down right asinine and rude.If you can't see this..I feel sorry for you and wish all of you best of luck with your endeavors with them.

Mac

bobg · « **Reply #28 on:** July 18, 2010, 01:03:15 PM »

I agree with what you said Mac. Pretty rude answers to the poor guy. I will never own another Weatherby for the same reason as his.

PawPaw · « **Reply #29 on:** July 18, 2010, 01:12:04 PM »

Quote from: Blue Brick on July 16, 2010, 08:32:33 PM

My main issue was lack of friendliness and reliable information. The barrel price should include the choke and wrench. The other charges are not the issue, but the horrible customer service and unreliable information is.

Actually, I agree with you. The lack of friendliness is unconscionable. If Rem/Mar/HR wants to keep customers they've got to have folks who are interested in customer service, which is more than lip service.

I'd think that H&R should have several techs who could work on the accessory barrel program, and get really good at what they do. Kind of like Remington's Custom Shop, who turn out magnificent firearms. I understand that Savage has a Custom Shop too and they do great work.

Unless I get a heck of a deal in a local shop, I"ve probably bought my last Handi. Not because I'm upset with the company, but because I've got four of the things. I'll pick up the odd rifle that catches my eye, mainly as grandkid rifles, but I'm about through buying rifles for myself.