Lincoln the Tyrant

[Gary G]

And it might have been a good thing if we had not gone to war with Germany. The war had about played out when Roosevelt got us into it against the wishes of 70% of the American people. Japan would have thwarted communism in SE Asia, therefore no war in Korea or Vietnam. But then, if Lincoln had not provoked war with the south, we would probably have followed our founders advice to avoid foreign entanglements. As Jefferson said, it does bring impoverishment. We are currently the worlds largest debtor nation.

[Swampman]

Did I stutter?

[Ga.windbreak]

Gentlemen! WE WILL NOT convert this into a religious arguement. STOP IT NOW or I will lock this thread!

[Ga.windbreak]

Ga.windbreak;
   I checked  http://www.halexandria.org/dward282.htm  ..didn't find anything directly related to Lincoln, but as a "truth", I do question that site.

One should question any source just don't use it as proof the Fact is false.

Emergency War Powers (12 Stat 319), which has never been repealed and exists in Title 50 United States Code (USC) §§212, 213, 215, Appendix 16, 26 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Chapter 1 § 303.1-6(a), and 31 CFR Chapter 5 § 500.701 Penalties.

This was done by Lincoln, now maybe he would have resended it had he lived, we'll never know. As a governed people we are still operating under this act thus it is the basis for all sorts of Constitutional law bending to which Lincoln can be directly held accountable!

Lincoln saw the country under attack by the same royalist internationals, Britian and France and their Banksters

If, a biggie, your CT were correct its way to much clock and dagger for that day and time. All the Brits and France had to do was as Truman did with Isreal in 47.


Plus, for the first time, I have to ask if you have even one shread of evidence to back up all of your post other than you saying that  Lincoln saw or felt such things. Please give us some links to back up this theory you are putting forth.

[ironglow]

I know that the south started shipping their cotton out of Charleston, directly to Britain & France. It only makes good business sense to cut out the costly middle man..northern bankers. The painful part for the north was likely the loss of a market for manufactured goods, since the cotton was buying British manufactured goods.
    Obviously the fact that the war started at Ft Sumpter (in Charleston harbor) seems to back Ga Windbreak's claim. I haven't heard anything about the Britain/France troops gathering along the northern border. I am going on 74  yrs of age, live within 50 miles of the Canadian border at it's busiest ports of entry and never even heard the old timers (American or Canadian) ever speak of such a thing. There is still much history, legend etc concerning the war of 1812 around here on both sides of the border, so it's not likely such a gathering of armies would have been completely forgotten. I'm not saying it didn't happen but I just have no knowledge of it. I would like more info on the claim.
   I view A. Lincoln as not all good nor all bad, but simply a human being doing his best with a bad situation. I believe he was a tremendously wise man but like many of us, did not always apply his store of wisdom impartially.

[Ga.windbreak]

Ga.windbrk.....
....Okay, not CT, but fact, and not hard to find info English-French-intrique and Lincoln's response to violations of the Monroe Doctrine.  (The CT starts to become operative if one connects Confed leaders with re-Royalizing North America...that is a good study.)

Your link:

On November 8, 1861, the USS San Jacinto, commanded by Union Captain Charles Wilkes, intercepted the British mail packet Trent and removed as contraband of war two Confederate diplomats, James Mason and John Slidell. The envoys were bound for Great Britain and France to press the Confederacy’s case for diplomatic recognition by Europe.

The initial reaction in the United States was to rally against Britain, threatening war; but President Abraham Lincoln and his top advisors did not want to risk war. In the Confederate States, the hope was that the incident would lead to a permanent rupture in Anglo-American relations and even diplomatic recognition by Britain of the Confederacy. Confederates realized their independence probably depended on a war between Britain and the U.S.

To use Wikipedia as the basis is not very strong imvho and the second part I put in bold is pure conjecture on the part of Wikipedia without any basis in fact!

While the Trent affair is true and well known to say that some Navy LT is secretly employed by the South to first stop a british ship illegally and then arrest two southerners in hopes it will somehow draw the Brits into a war with the north is a real reach imvho.

Of course Lincoln didn't want to fight the Brits (as most thinking Brits knew- in that Lincoln was no fool). And if the Brits really had designs on retaking us the field was NEVER more ripe than to step in during a civil war.

The South's only hope was that of using Cotton as a wedge forcing England and France to diplomatic recognition of her. Europe had seen this coming for years and had stockpiled for just such a development.

President Davis speaks of this event in his book and of his hope of using King Cotton in such a way yet he also stated to his wife even before the first shot was fired that the South had no real way to win an outright victory on the field and could only hope for a sued peace. He and Lee fought just such a war.

[Ga.windbreak]

One can not be a King or Emperor without an empire.  BTW, the FED's charter is ending in 2012.

Not to go off on a tangent but we can only HOPE it won't be extended! I, for one, do not trust the fools running the asslum called DC!

[ironglow]

A question, not a statement...
  I seem to vaguely recall that at one point some European powers were just about to recognize the Confederacy as a new entity. Perhaps that was just before the turning point at Gettysburg. what is the story there ?

[Gary G]

One can not be a King or Emperor without an empire.  BTW, the FED's charter is ending in 2012.

Not to go off on a tangent but we can only HOPE it won't be extended! I, for one, do not trust the fools running the asslum called DC!

It will be extended unless the lid blows off first (currency crisis following QE II).

GaW, here is a very good article that puts all the pieces together and makes sense off it all. It is long, so I printed it and read it later. It explains why they (DC) does the economically irrational things that they do. The end of the article wanes off a bit, but the first part should be must reading for all American people.

http://spectator.org/archives/2010/07/16/americas-ruling-class-and-the

There is one quick solution to the oligarchy. One state withdraw from the union and require that all federal taxes are not to be paid. Establish a state bank and coin their own legal tender. The dollar is in a tedious situation and our debtors' (China's) only hope is that the American people work hard and give half they produce to the federal government. Any state withdrawing and nullifying federal laws that will prosper, many other states will follow, and the dollar will quickly go to worthlessness. A shot must not be fired. The federal government will dissolve very quickly without money.

Hyperinflation will do the same, but will be harder on the poor and middle class. We have lived 39 years "high on the hog" by borrowing from our future to live now. That is about to change. The government caused it and will not fix it because they believe in the Keynesian lie and social engineering.

Sorry, this is a bit off topic.

[Ga.windbreak]

A question, not a statement...
  I seem to vaguely recall that at one point some European powers were just about to recognize the Confederacy as a new entity. Perhaps that was just before the turning point at Gettysburg. what is the story there ?

From what I've garnered the French were gungho to recognize the South as such but wouldn't take that final step without England doing the same and the stickler there was Slavery. Though the Crown was "cotton" to the idea the public held sway and though the public and crown loved the South for its stand (they saw Lincoln as the interloper in all of this) they did not want to be drawn into this conflict. It went against their business sense as well as their involvement in India. They were, in fact, spread far to thin!

[Ga.windbreak]

One can not be a King or Emperor without an empire.  BTW, the FED's charter is ending in 2012.

Not to go off on a tangent but we can only HOPE it won't be extended! I, for one, do not trust the fools running the asslum called DC!

It will be extended unless the lid blows off first (currency crisis following QE II).

GaW, here is a very good article that puts all the pieces together and makes sense off it all. It is long, so I printed it and read it later. It explains why they (DC) does the economically irrational things that they do. The end of the article wanes off a bit, but the first part should be must reading for all American people.

http://spectator.org/archives/2010/07/16/americas-ruling-class-and-the

There is one quick solution to the oligarchy. One state withdraw from the union and require that all federal taxes are not to be paid. Establish a state bank and coin their own legal tender. The dollar is in a tedious situation and our debtors' (China's) only hope is that the American people work hard and give half they produce to the federal government. Any state withdrawing and nullifying federal laws that will prosper, many other states will follow, and the dollar will quickly go to worthlessness. A shot must not be fired. The federal government will dissolve very quickly without money.

Hyperinflation will do the same, but will be harder on the poor and middle class. We have lived 39 years "high on the hog" by borrowing from our future to live now. That is about to change. The government caused it and will not fix it because they believe in the Keynesian lie and social engineering.

Sorry, this is a bit off topic.

Thanks Gary, off topic yes, but something worth reading none the less!

[Gary G]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/63305.html

[subdjoe]

To use Wikipedia as the basis is not very strong imvho and the second part I put in bold is pure conjecture on the part of Wikipedia without any basis in fact!

I'm going to go to bat for the use of Wiki.  It can, and does, serve as a good starting point, as many of the articles have good references in and after them.  Then, after checking out other sources, not just those listed with the wiki article, it may be that Wiki has one of the best written, accurate, and concise pieces out there.  Not always the case, but from what I have seen, a good healthy majority of the time it works out this way.  To dismiss something just because it came from Wiki is just as bad as dismissing something because it came from HuffPo or Cato.

[Ga.windbreak]

To use Wikipedia as the basis is not very strong imvho and the second part I put in bold is pure conjecture on the part of Wikipedia without any basis in fact!

I'm going to go to bat for the use of Wiki.  It can, and does, serve as a good starting point, as many of the articles have good references in and after them.  Then, after checking out other sources, not just those listed with the wiki article, it may be that Wiki has one of the best written, accurate, and concise pieces out there.  Not always the case, but from what I have seen, a good healthy majority of the time it works out this way.  To dismiss something just because it came from Wiki is just as bad as dismissing something because it came from HuffPo or Cato.

With respect, did I say dismiss? Wiki is what it is; no more no less and while I too use it as part of my discovery mode I find it biased and misleading (as I pointed out BTW). Its a tool, not the best or the worse, but I surely would not use it to debate a point that I felt strongly about.

If you like it thats fine, if we all always agreed this world would be a very dull place indeed! Don't you think?

A case in point would be to use Wiki as the link for a Constitutional debate rather than the Constitutional link itself. One doesn't buy a Chev and expect it to perform like a Rolls.