Author Topic: The tune up didn't work for the 35 Whelen. (Read 2747 times)

jim36 · « **on:** July 17, 2010, 07:12:06 AM »

I thought the problem was fixed, especially after I saw the 5 fired cases from the Rem. repair shop. I loaded 6 cases with primers and they all fired. Loaded 6 more and only 4 of them went bang. The other two shot on the second attempt. This Am I was going to the range so I decided to try it before I headed out. 6 of the cases fired but the 7th did not. Didn't even try it the second time. That was the last straw. It's washed up. Finished. Not gonna try again. Four trips to Remington and still FTF. Ain't gonna happen again.
I don't know if Remington will make a refund on this thing but I am going to ask for full refund. I also pulled the bullet on a factory case and it took two trigger pulls to make that one go off.

As "Charlie Brown" would say "Why is everybody always picking on me?"

Jim <")))><

manatee1947 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 17, 2010, 07:28:51 AM »

If they dont give you your money back, before you make a lamp out of it, make me a cheap price on the barrel

gendoc · « **Reply #2 on:** July 17, 2010, 07:45:01 AM »

sad to hear jim

you have probably been asked this before, have you tried it with another receiver ?
i would be fed-up too !!!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** July 17, 2010, 07:53:06 AM »

Sorry to hear that Jim, they have made refunds before, at least twice that I can recollect, but both were prior to Remington ownership, one was on a Whelen that had the same problem. $:-\$

Tim

aromakr · « **Reply #4 on:** July 17, 2010, 08:03:32 AM »

A rimless case with a really small shoulder, I can see where it might happen in this type of rifle. Chambering will be really critical to get the proper headspace I would bet once fired cases properly sized and handloaded would cure the problem.
Bob

jim36 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 17, 2010, 08:16:50 AM »

Bob
I have tried full sized, neck sized. partial sized and factory. Some fire some don't. I haven't tried it on another receiver because this was a factory fit bbl. I've got $149.80 in this bbl pluse all the worry and ammo.
This may be one of the cures to the addiction. Believe me I have been very patient. I waited over 10 months to get this barrel and it has been back four times.
I'm glad I have a 45 70 that will shoot and will be used during the ML season here in Mississippi.
I really thought it was fixed. But.......
Thanks for the posts you guys have made concerning this saga.

<")))><

OR-E-Gun Bill · « **Reply #6 on:** July 17, 2010, 08:30:38 AM »

Man that's really a tough break Jim. I've been watching this one and really hoping they would get a proper fix on this barrel. The 35 Whelen is one on my wish list but with my luck of having Mr. Murphy following me around constantly, I would probably end up with the twin brother of your barrel.
Hope they will make things right with you after all this.

Bill

OldBob · « **Reply #7 on:** July 17, 2010, 09:00:56 AM »

I think maybe before I tossed in the towel, I would try to load some rounds with a slightly reduced load and make them long enough to touch the lands ......... the extra resistance may hold the case back against the breech and keep the firing pin from driving the case in. Maybe that is not what is happening, but if you haven't already tried it, it just might be worth a shot

?

gendoc · « **Reply #8 on:** July 17, 2010, 09:14:51 AM »

jim, that factory fit barrel might lock up tight to your 45-70 receiver or a different one.
its worth a try to see if anything goes away.....before you pitch-it !!!

maybe you already have tried, just a thought

jim36 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 17, 2010, 09:40:59 AM »

Since everything has been tried by me and the factory, I am finished with this one. There is no way that I would every have confidence that this thing would fire when I expected it to. When I pull the trigger, I expect it to fire every time. It hasn't happened.
<")))><

Sourdough · « **Reply #10 on:** July 17, 2010, 11:07:50 AM »

At this point I have to agree. Ask for a refund.

trotterlg · « **Reply #11 on:** July 17, 2010, 04:52:18 PM »

I think what would work would be a little modification to the extractor. Once I fit a 17 Velicaraptor barrel with an ejector that held the un-fireformed case back against the breach so it would fire. My guess it this would work out well for this problem also. Larry

Swampman · « **Reply #12 on:** July 17, 2010, 05:10:08 PM »

The Whelen is just a very problematic caliber period. Sorry it didn't work out.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #13 on:** July 17, 2010, 09:04:42 PM »

Just a comment.

It is'nt just the H&R/NEFs that have FTF in this caliber but with other makes as well.
Ruger has had the same problem along with a few others.
It is hard to beleive that many different brands all have the same problem.
The only constant I see is in the ammo.
All the FTFs I know of were factory Rem ammo.
I know Rem has had hard primer problems in the past.
Not saying this is the problem with yours, but once I switched to Winchester primers my Whelen FTF problem seemed to go away.
You may have already tried this with yours.
Just something to consider.

LONGTOM

Spanky · « **Reply #14 on:** July 18, 2010, 01:20:40 AM »

You're right about that Longtom... I had the same issues with my Ruger M77. I took it to the shop and they replaced the firing pin and spring... still had FTF's.
I traded the gun... I won't have one that I can't trust to go bang every time.

Spanky

Foggy · « **Reply #15 on:** July 18, 2010, 02:09:50 AM »

There is about 5 or so wildcat chamberings . the Rem ammo has a small shoulder but when fires will form to the chamber. Can find the brass to show before and after. I would fire factory ammo in my 700 them reload for my H&R. I made about 50 rounds out of 30-06 and use ised it in my H%R till I sold it to GATCAT here on the forum. I never had a FTF from the '06 brass I resized

Foggy

manatee1947 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 18, 2010, 05:48:24 AM »

Have you tried segregating your brass according to those that have fired and neck sizing only on those brass, so that you are using only brass fire formed for that chamber ??

mauser98us · « **Reply #17 on:** July 18, 2010, 06:24:36 AM »

Ackley-ize it

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** July 18, 2010, 06:31:36 AM »

That's exactly what I was just contemplating, only to 35 Brown-Whelen instead, CH4D sells a complete die set for $78, 4D has the reamer for rent, it's quite an improvement over the Whelen Ackley, still need to fireform tho.

Tim

http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/aicompare.cgi?sn=fWlniQvewc&loadset=165&xxglbl=1

Austin1 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 18, 2010, 07:05:58 AM »

Quote from: LONGTOM on July 17, 2010, 09:04:42 PM

Just a comment.

It is'nt just the H&R/NEFs that have FTF in this caliber but with other makes as well.
Ruger has had the same problem along with a few others.
It is hard to beleive that many different brands all have the same problem.
The only constant I see is in the ammo.
All the FTFs I know of were factory Rem ammo.
I know Rem has had hard primer problems in the past.
Not saying this is the problem with yours, but once I switched to Winchester primers my Whelen FTF problem seemed to go away.
You may have already tried this with yours.
Just something to consider.

LONGTOM

I have a Rem 700 Classic in .35 and it has never failed to fire with anything from necked up 06 to factory ammo. I also have a husky in .358 Norma that I will keep till I die, it's a much better gun than the 700 and cal too, but the 700 has always worked I am going to give it to my best friend this hunting season as he got his Moose draw. ''They'' Remington should give you a new barrel and fit it also for free! Since Remington and Marlin and H&R are all under one roof the Quality has gone down hill!

NFG · « **Reply #20 on:** July 18, 2010, 07:17:13 AM »

You've gone down the road this far...why not go a little farther??

I have followed this thread and I'm guessing an oversized chamber...and maybe the dies are on the smaller end of the tolerance range. I would like to get my hands on that barrel and die set and do some measurements and testing and other examinations...it is extremely difficult to diagnose at long range.

I would try loading the bullets into the lands so the round is firm against the frame and working up a load...you do get a bit of a pressure spike doing this but as long as you don't go nuts with the powder, doing so is just as safe as any other reloading process...and you will get just as high a velocity or maybe higher...you just have to chrono the loads to be sure and watch for pressure signs.

It might just be the cartridge not the rifle that is causing the problem, or a combination of many factors...chamber, firing system, dies, loading proceedure, etc.

The 35 cal is an excellent caliber with many very good bullets...I wouldn't quit on it now.

You might try 9.3x62 brass...RWS, Norma, or Lapua brands are just enough larger than REM/WIN 30-06 or 35 Whelen in the various dimensions that it might fill out the chamber better and stop the FTF...

Doing as Tim and Mauser suggest would cure the problem. I don't really like the short neck on the B-W and you have to be careful fireforming so you don't get a headspace problem...stick the bullet into the lands and use a medium load...or go one step farther and do a 35 x 3.25"(45-120 case necked down) and get a longer step up in pizzazz AND a rimmed case...we're talking MAGNUM stuff. The dies will cost the same from CH4D I think. And don't forget the belted mag cased 35's or shortened RUM cased wildcats(as long as your loads stay within the pressure limits of the NEF frame!!!!)

You will definitely be a few notches above the rest when it comes to bragging rights.

If not, I think there are several standing in line that would take the barrel OR the whole rifle off your hands for what you have in it...and make THEM pay the freight.

I would offer if I didn't already have way too many shooters...a 35x3.25" reamer would quickly be ordered.

There are many more things that could be done but haven't, but if you're like me, once you get down on something their AIN'T no getting back up.

Luck

mauser98us · « **Reply #21 on:** July 18, 2010, 07:36:24 AM »

I think the Brown-Whelan or Ackley Whelan will surprise the non beleivers of the mighty 35 calibers. My 98 Mauser in 35 Whelan AI, with a 21 tube pushes a 200 grain slug in the high twenty-nine hundred FPS, with many going over 3000 FPS. I still havn't hit the top load ceiling yet,and have no intention to do so. I'm getting a load deviation of 7 fps,so it's consistant as well. All individual rifles are laws to themselve, and I realize the velocities are high. This is a safe load in my rifle,and more than likely would be an overload in a NEF platform. The point being, either the BW or AI are fabulous cartridges,well worth considering.

PawPaw · « **Reply #22 on:** July 18, 2010, 07:38:30 AM »

I'm just thinking out-loud here, and I'm sure someone has tried it.

I wonder what might happen if someone chambered a .35 caliber barrel for a case based on the 7.62X54R? That rimmed case would certainly solve the headspace problems.

GreenMachine79 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 18, 2010, 08:32:20 AM »

Quote from: PawPaw on July 18, 2010, 07:38:30 AM

I'm just thinking out-loud here, and I'm sure someone has tried it.

I wonder what might happen if someone chambered a .35 caliber barrel for a case based on the 7.62X54R? That rimmed case would certainly solve the headspace problems.

I don't think you could chamber the 35 Whelen barrel to a shorter .35x54R wild cat. If you started with a barrel blank or re bored a smaller caliber you could do it and it would make a excellent rifle.

PawPaw · « **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2010, 11:31:21 AM »

Quote from: GreenMachine79 on July 18, 2010, 08:32:20 AM

Quote from: PawPaw on July 18, 2010, 07:38:30 AM
I'm just thinking out-loud here, and I'm sure someone has tried it.

I wonder what might happen if someone chambered a .35 caliber barrel for a case based on the 7.62X54R? That rimmed case would certainly solve the headspace problems.

I don't think you could chamber the 35 Whelen barrel to a shorter .35x54R wild cat. If you started with a barrel blank or re bored a smaller caliber you could do it and it would make a excellent rifle.

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of rechambering a .35 Remington barrel.

GreenMachine79 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 18, 2010, 01:19:20 PM »

PawPaw, In that case it should work great, I think this would be a fun rifle. You just need to find some dies for this.

tacklebury · « **Reply #26 on:** July 18, 2010, 02:35:43 PM »

Be a nice idea, especially with milsurp ammo available.

NFG · « **Reply #27 on:** July 19, 2010, 08:05:00 AM »

There are several very excellent rimmed AND rimless cases that can AND have been used to hairy-up the 35 cal. 35 cal wildcats go way back. I totally agree it is an excellent caliber and doesn't take much massaging to make it a REAL banger.

I thought I was done mucking about with wildcats, but this discussion has started the juices flowing again. I have a rechamber on the switchbarrel 6mmBR/223 handi to finish and the forend to fit...maybe I will start looking around for a cheap(not hardly!!!) 357 barrel...

The 35x3.25" has a case capacity almost equal to the 358 Shooting Times Alaskan...many of you might know just how BAAADDDD that puppy is. You could also use a 45-90(45x2.6") or 45-100(45x2.75") cases and make it equal to the 350 Rem Mag...reamers for all those are already available or your own design are cheap enough plus CH4D or most of the other die makers will make you a set of dies.

For an upgrade to the 35 Rem I would pick a more available, modern, non-military case than the 54R, I'm not all that sure of the quality of the brass...like the 444M, AKA 358 JDJ or 45-XXX...or just the 358 Win...done right there isn't ANY problem with FTF's...as long as a minimum chamber reamer is used and the sizing die is matched to the chamber. I didn't know there were 35 Rem Handi barrels, but those iterations have been done to many 35 cal lever guns.

If this rifle were a bolt gun a simple 1 thread to 1/2" setback and rechamber with the correct reamer and a gumsmith that knows his business, might/would have solved the problem. Maybe nothing more than honing the sizer to match the chamber would suffice.

A major fly in the pie is... most of the users of the Handi are NOT wildcatters or experimenters or are short on patience when a "major" problem comes up... so many problems that are inherent in the Handi that have a simple solution are beyond the perview, wants/requirements/desires of the shooter. The same can be said of ANY shooter, single/double action, OR bolt gun.

Luck

quickdtoo · « **Reply #28 on:** July 19, 2010, 03:16:26 PM »

There are no factory 35 Rem Handis yet other than the rechambered 357 Mag/Maxs that have been done, there's a distributor that lists them in a combo with a 444 Marlin barrel, but that hasn't happened yet, there's a thread on it back a couple months and another at MO.

Tim

dk17hmr · « **Reply #29 on:** July 19, 2010, 04:32:31 PM »

Couldnt you ad a rim to the 35 whelen case. Now hear me out, get some C-clips that are the correct size to fit the rim cut on the Whelen case, put the barrel in a lathe and cut a rim at the chamber, like 307/308 someone on here has. Like a moonclip for a 45 ACP revolver. Once you get fired cases that would fit the chamber in theory you wouldnt need the C-clip. The rim cut wouldnt be to deep into the barrel so there wouldnt be a pressure issue.

C-Clip I am thinking of

Maybe?