Best "All Purpose" Gun

[jcn59]

I think .410 slugs weigh 1/5 ounce or about 80 grains.  In order for it to put out 500 ft/# it would have to be traveling just under 1700 fps.  That won't happen with a judge.

Brett,  I couldn't decide what I meant.   We don't have those big western gophers here, just golfers & goofers.   I shoulda stood in bed.

[FN in MT]

 A  2.5" .410 buckshot load consists of THREE  .34" soft lead balls weighing 62 grs each.

 The std .410 shotgun slug is a .40" soft lead slug that weighs all of 96 grains.

 For an interesting test of the Judge go to....Box-O-Truth test #41   
 http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

 FN in MT

 
 

[Brett]

Good article and pretty much what I figured. Thanks. 

[williamlayton]

Well now, starting a flame is not a bad thing.
You boys are wrong and don't really think thru things well.
The best all purpose gun is a 9X23.
You can get it in Government or commander sizes.
You can get it double stacked.
You can get it in 6" barrels.
It shoot faster than a dbl action.
It can carry double the ammo.
It is a harder hitter than a .357---it simply outperforms a .357, .41 or .44.
Easier to control.
AND--you don't have to marry it for it too sleep by your side.
Then you can argue the .45 super.
Got to think out of the box and, know your weapons.
Blessings

[1911crazy]

William I'm with you.  I keep my 1911 closeby all the time in 45acp.  But with the new problems with local blackbears comming by all the time the 45acp may not be enough gun.  I'm figuring a home invasion and its after my viddles....

[teamnelson]

It shoot faster than a dbl action.

Ah Mr. Layton sir, fortunately neither of our salvation depends on agreement on this minute point of doctrine as I must respectfully disagree. Perhaps one day we can settle that dispute side by side (not face to face) 

But what the heck is a 9x23?

[jcn59]

Bob Munden shot a single action faster than a bottom feeder, didn't he?

[saddlebum]

Bob Munden shot a single action faster than a bottom feeder, didn't he?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRXXxQ1OuDc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TANC4VI8vF4&feature=related

'nuff said!!

[sachel.45]

i got to say a 4" .357 mag like my gp100 for a handgun for long gun i got to go with the remington 870. now as for the judge unless somebody has real experiance then their opinion really doesn't count much imo as for the box o truth test the guy cut down a 3" shell to use in the 2.5" gun while it might not make a diffrence it might. plus like was said earlyer their are a couple new loading specifically for the judge in .410 and .45 lc (i just saw a pic of it its got a bullet that makes it the same length as a 2.5" .410 shell) again this is my opinion i also don't have a judge but do see a use for it

[Ak.Hiker]

My vote goes to an S&W L frame 4 inch 357 Magnum 7 shot. Everything from 38 Special, 38 Special +P, 357 Magnum 125 grain up to the 180 and 200 grain hard cast could be run through the same gun depending on the need.

[williamlayton]

TN
It is not a matter of salvation but of Hermanutics.
A 9X23 is a High PSI round that was developed in the 70's but had problems because of the shell casing.
It is primed by small rifle primers. 50,00 PSI is what I recall without going too the manuals.
Winchester devloped a shell casing that woul hold up too the pressures.
The 9x23 that I own is an STI.
STI developed the gun for the Game crowd and it quickly became a favorite.
I load mine with Vhita Vouri and, while I have no chronograph, like loads devloped and Chronoed by others develope speeds upward of 1500fps.
It is a hard hitting, long range, flat shooting round. In a double stack configuration one can load 15 rounds + pipe.
Mine is a single stack. It is in a the STI Trojan 1911.
Blessings

[williamlayton]

I have no idea what Munden can do---the question is can you duplicate the feat?
I can't but, I will bet I can shoot a 1911 with 8 shots faster than you can with a single action with six shots.
Blessings

[SHOOTALL]

In your opinion what is the best all-purpose hand gun?

The Double Action Revolver forum has two similar questions: What is the best .357? and what is the best double action revolver, however, I did not want to limit it to revolvers or specific calibers.

Points to ponder: self/home defense & carry, hunting/woods/trail gun, practice & plinking, yes, it has to do it all. If the gun comes in different barrel lengths, be sure to include what length is your all-purpose length.

This does not have to be a gun you own, or have ever owned. Just make, model, and why this gun is your candidate for best all-purpose.

It would be hard to beat a 10 mm. for an all around gun . It would also be hard to beat a 1911 with a 5 inch bbl. It packs easy enough , it sits by the bed on the night stand well enough . It is on the low end of magnum power with some loads . It has taken much game around the world . It shoots flat . Its a 40 something - big hole. carries enough ammo for most soical events. Whats not to like ?

[SHOOTALL]

William I'm with you.  I keep my 1911 closeby all the time in 45acp.  But with the new problems with local blackbears comming by all the time the 45acp may not be enough gun.  I'm figuring a home invasion and its after my viddles....

10 mm !

[SHOOTALL]

I have no idea what Munden can do---the question is can you duplicate the feat?
I can't but, I will bet I can shoot a 1911 with 8 shots faster than you can with a single action with six shots.
Blessings

Bob shoots a speical built revolver ( with speical roller bearings added and lock work changes ) in a situation that is not life threating with ammo that is little more powerful that wax bullet loads . He is an exibition shooter . I would be the first to agree with a real fighting gun and full house ammo he would still be good but not as good as with his tricked out gun and ammo.Keep in mind he only shoot that gun one way using the fingers to cock the gun not his thumb. How would that work if the attacker was comming from his off side and he was seated ?  On the other hand Bob Micklick (sp) shoots a revolver in competition aginst autos often and wins his share , but not all. Speed is of little importance if you can't hit the target . Most shoot an auto better , a good 1911 will stay servicable longer than most revolvers if maintained . The 1911 is better suited to home repair - more parts aval. Ans a more powerful rond can be in a smaller package with an auto with most standard rounds. Its not about who shoots fastest its about who hits fastest in a good spot !

[Brett]

A 10mm wouldn't leave you much squirrel or bunny for the stew pot though.   The question wasn't what is the best hand gun for bear, or target shooting or plinking or small game,or self defense. The question is "what is the best all around handgun?"   A .22 kit gun might be great for plinking and putting small game in the pot but won't help you much if you get attacked by a bear.  A .480 Ruger would ruin a bears day but would not be a lot of fun to plink with and would vaporize squirrels. 

So if I was to take a logical approach to the Op's question the first thing I need to think about is what caliber comes the closest to being adequate (not necessarily the best) for all of the above mentioned purposes.  I would have to consider the availability of ammo...Can I buy ammo for it if I find myself in Podung, Maine?  Is there a wide assortment of factory loadings or components available for it, can I buy or roll... target loads?, small game loads?, large game loads?, self defense loads?

IMO these criteria narrow the choices down to .357mag/38spl and .44mag/.44spl.  I think that the .38s are generally easier to find and come in a wider selection of bullet styles.  So I will go with a .38mag/.38spl even though I would rather have a .44mag if I ever had an encounter with a bear.

Now I can choose a platform to deliver these rounds. Well, obviously the .357mag/.38spl are revolver rounds so I can rule out semi-Auto pistols for that reason alone.

Okay now the question of barrel length for my revolver.  A 2" snubby is easy to pack but doesn't give me much of a site radius for precision shooting such as needed for target shooting or hitting small game.  A 7" or longer barrel is way to unwieldy and heavy for me to carry all the time.  IMO, a 3" to 4" barrel is a good compromise.

Single or double action?  I would go with a double action. Reloading is quicker and I can still cock the hammer and shoot it SA for better precision if I choose.

Sites.  Fixed sites are less delicate, but if I want to use this gun for multiple loads for everything from small game to bear defense so adjustable sites are a must to me.

Okay so now I have a 3"-4" DA revolver with adjustable sites in .357mag/.38spl.  What brand do I go with.  I want a proven track record, good customer service and parts availability and reasonable cost.  S&W and Ruger are the only two I know of that fit the bill and I would be happy with either one of them.

Now, I'm not going to say that my choice is the best choice of an all around hand gun for everyone.  You may have a different set of criteria than I.  But I just wanted to explain the thought process behind my choice and show what choosing "the best all around handgun" might entail.   
       

[SHOOTALL]

A 10mm wouldn't leave you much squirrel or bunny for the stew pot though.   The question wasn't what is the best hand gun for bear, or target shooting or plinking or small game,or self defense. The question is "what is the best all around handgun?"   A .22 kit gun might be great for plinking and putting small game in the pot but won't help you much if you get attacked by a bear.  A .480 Ruger would ruin a bears day but would not be a lot of fun to plink with and would vaporize squirrels. 

So if I was to take a logical approach to the Op's question the first thing I need to think about is what caliber comes the closest to being adequate (not necessarily the best) for all of the above mentioned purposes.  I would have to consider the availability of ammo...Can I buy ammo for it if I find myself in Podung, Maine?  Is there a wide assortment of factory loadings or components available for it, can I buy or roll... target loads?, small game loads?, large game loads?, self defense loads?
For little critters i would down load some FMJ's . Better to be over gunned for bunnies than under gunned for bruins IMHO .
IMO these criteria narrow the choices down to .357mag/38spl and .44mag/.44spl.  I think that the .38s are generally easier to find and come in a wider selection of bullet styles.  So I will go with a .38mag/.38spl even though I would rather have a .44mag if I ever had an encounter with a bear.

Now I can choose a platform to deliver these rounds. Well, obviously the .357mag/.38spl are revolver rounds so I can rule out semi-Auto pistols for that reason alone.

Okay now the question of barrel length for my revolver.  A 2" snubby is easy to pack but doesn't give me much of a site radius for precision shooting such as needed for target shooting or hitting small game.  A 7" or longer barrel is way to unwieldy and heavy for me to carry all the time.  IMO, a 3" to 4" barrel is a good compromise.

Single or double action?  I would go with a double action. Reloading is quicker and I can still cock the hammer and shoot it SA for better precision if I choose.

Sites.  Fixed sites are less delicate, but if I want to use this gun for multiple loads for everything from small game to bear defense so adjustable sites are a must to me.

Okay so now I have a 3"-4" DA revolver with adjustable sites in .357mag/.38spl.  What brand do I go with.  I want a proven track record, good customer service and parts availability and reasonable cost.  S&W and Ruger are the only two I know of that fit the bill and I would be happy with either one of them.

Now, I'm not going to say that my choice is the best choice of an all around hand gun for everyone.  You may have a different set of criteria than I.  But I just wanted to explain the thought process behind my choice and show what choosing "the best all around handgun" might entail.   
       

To choose with out a safety margin is fool hearty , For bunnies with a 10mm I would use FMJ's and head shots even reduced loads could be used. Same for target shooting . Anything a 357 mag will do a 10 mm will also in most cases maybe better . Ammo I would aquire a supply to be on hand . The auto holds more ammo in the gun a good thing if you have to grab the gun and go . I also like fixed sights - snag free nite sights to be spefic.

[joeinwv]

If the question is handgun, I am taking my Glock 19.

However, if we are talking the best all purpose gun of any type and I only get one - it's going to be a rifle in 22LR. Specifically, a Ruger 10/22. The factors - cost of ammo, cost of weapon, reliability, semi-auto w/ detachable magazine, has successfully killed virtually every animal on the planet, can be used for hunting, SD/ HD, availability of ammo, has a useful range of 200yds...

Another big factor for me that puts the 22LR over the 12ga - ability to carry ammo. Think how much 100rds of 12ga weighs and the space it takes up. Now look at 100rds of 22LR.

These questions are always about compromise.

[PKnTX]

When All can agree to have the same Purpose,
then maby All can agree on an all Purpose handgun.

On second thought, "MABY" is an awful strong word.

I do enjoy these threads as experienced opinions are
always valuable to read.
Some of the other stuff is just plain entertaining.


My particular purpose calls for a 357mag double action revolver
if it is to pull All Purpose duty. 

[coyotejoe]

I'll go with the pack and say a 4" .357 double action revolver is hard to beat. Auto pistols are great but as a one-for-all gun autos have limitations. First, I hate crawling around to recover half the brass I fired. Then autos generally function well within a rather narrow range of bullet weights, shapes and velocities. Revolvers don't care if you feed them wadcutters, semi wadcutters, heavy bullets at full magnum velocities or a round ball that barely poops out the muzzle, even wax bullets with primer only. You will need adjustable sights to take advantage of those options but they are there in a revolver.

[Brett]

These questions are always about compromise.

BINGO.  That's the point I was trying to make.  And the answer will probably not be the same for everyone. Where I live we have relatively small black bears and they are not all that common so a .357 would be up to the task.  Now if you live in Alaska in an area where you are likely to encounter grizzlies you probably want to go with a bigger caliber.  Answering the question "What is the best all around hand gun is almost as difficult to answer is 'what is the best all around vehicle?'  It's a very individual thing based on individual circumstances. So what we may really want to ask is "what is the best all around handgun for you and why?".

Coyotejoe makes some very valid points pertaining to Semi-Auto pistols that even the most ardent fan can not deny.  Don't get me wrong I love bottom feeders, I own several.  But they are purpose specific guns and I would not consider any of them to be "the best all around hand gun".   In fact, to be perfectly honest with you, I do not even own the gun I described as "the best all around hand gun" in my earlier post.  All of my hand guns were purchased with a specific purpose in mind whether it was plinking, serious target shooting, concealed carry, home defense, etc.  However, if for some reason I was limited to only one gun the 3 to 4 inch .357 mag, DA revolver with adjustable sites would be my choice based on my criteria, my experience and the reasons I stated in the above post.      

[saddlebum]

I have no idea what Munden can do---the question is can you duplicate the feat?
I can't but, I will bet I can shoot a 1911 with 8 shots faster than you can with a single action with six shots.
Blessings

Just so you know Mr. Layton I posted the videos of Munden just because they are fun to watch. Your point IS valid and a good point it is.

[saddlebum]

Some of the posts here seem to give more attention to one aspect of the criteria given in the original question. "All-purpose" = compromise. It has been said in at least one post that I can't hunt small game with the calibers I suggested in my first post, .41mag to .45 Colt. Well that is just not true. I started hunting small game with a medium bore when I was in my 20s cowboying in Colorado. I used to shoot cottontails while I was out riding and cook them for lunch. Makes for a  nice break in the middle of the day. I used an 1861 Remington cap and ball replica revolver that I used to carry when riding. Years later I used to have a friend that I went shooting with almost every weekend. We didn't go to a range. We would go for a walk somewhere and shoot jackrabbits. They were thick as fleas in Wy. at the time. My friend used his .44mag and I used my .41mag with reduced loads. I put a head shot on a badger with a .41 once and the same on a rockchuck. Are the .41+ calibers best for small game? No, it's a compromise to get an "all-purpose handgun". Because of the above mentioned, I have no qualms with using it for self defense against 2 legged critters. I have taken deer with the .41 with good results with the proper loads and it is capable of taking elk or moose with the proper loads. I have never got a shot at one myself. It's not a perfect carry gun but in a 4" it is not much of a problem. Not perfect but a compromise which it has to be to meet all the challenges that are asked of it in this question of an "all-purpose" handgun. Your views, opinions, preferences, limitations and so on may differ from mine and that's fine. I respect that. But don't say I can't hunt small game with a .41mag.    

[hornady]

Who would have thought this would have gone on this long, some very valid points have been posted, earlier in the post, Jeff Cooper and Elmer Keith were mentioned, if this question had been put to them, I would expect Keith to have said the S&W 44 Mag, but Cooper would have argued for the 1911.
Both very respected, but both had different views on handguns.

[williamlayton]

Mr Layton---huh, well, I never.
Why don't some of you boys tell this saddlebum what ya'll call me.
Blessings 

[saddlebum]

Mr Layton---huh, well, I never.
Why don't some of you boys tell this saddlebum what ya'll call me.
Blessings 

HEY!! THIS IS A FAMILY FORUM !!

I always appreciate your opinions and posts, so I was just trying to be respectful to my elder.   
Didn't want you to think I really disagreed with you. On that point anyway.   

[SHOOTALL]

Have any of you who own or have shot a Taurus Judge ever shot .410 slugs threw it?   I agree that .410 shot loads out of a short barreled hand gun would be all but useless except at arms length but I have read that .410 slugs produce as much energy as the .357mag. 

It would still seem to me that there are much better choices in CC weaponry than the Judge but to each their own.     

7000 divided by 16 gives each oz the weight of 437.5  grains . A 410 slug is what 1/5 oz or 87.5 grains . At best out of a long gun they go about 1200 fps . How on earth can that equal a 125 gr. slug going 1400+ fps ? In a hand gun it wouldn't be as close .
oh yea 7000 grains is one pound .

[mcwoodduck]

I have to agree with Shootall.
If you use the Taylor knock out formula
Diameter of the bullet X weight of the bullet X speed of bullet at the muzzle.
divided by 7000 and that = some number to compare bullets to knock down an elephant.
Bullet Diameter is weighed heavy as a 300 grain 458 bullet will have a greater knock down than a 375 with both moving at 2600 FPS.
But if I think this works in handguns more than rifles.
410 Slug
88 grains X 1200 FPS X .410 =43,296
43,296 / 7000 = 6.185
357 Mag
125 frains X 1400 X .357 = 62,475
62,475 / 7000 = 8.925
Not a great difference but when compared to 17.65 for a 240 grain 44 mag load at just 1200 FPS

[coyotejoe]

That's using the Taylor knock-out formula in exactly the way John Taylor himself said it should not be used, but interesting none the less. There is no doubt that the best load for the judge is a .45 Colt full or semi wadcutter and you can fire those from a much more practical handgun than the judge.

[mcwoodduck]

I guess I should have used a standard 45 Colt round as well as a Buffalo bore hot load and a 41 mag.
Not sure Taylor would not see that using his formula for a defensive hand gun round.
The Big bore rounds were compared to stop a rogue bull from turning you into mush and using the formula to compare handgun rounds to stop an assailant follows.  The only thing that is missing is recoil factor that would equate to repeat shots.
His formula still follows that bigger heavier rounds score higher.  It does not take into account the bullet design.  I guess it only really works if you compare similar bullet styles.
but I thought it would point out that a 410 slug is not as potent as other loads the gun can fire.