Handgun For Hunting In Grizzly Country

[Lloyd Smale]

in alaska you cant hunt bear without a guide so there is no choise in the matter. As to canned hunts id do one every year and dont make appologys for it but then i dont go claiming i was some skilled hunter doing it. I shoot a buffalo at my buddys game farm every year. Its a fun way to test handgun loads for performance. You can do penetration tests till your blue in the face but nothing beats actually shooting an animal. The main reason i do it is i can put good meat in the freezer cheaper then i can buy beef that way.

Now I’m confused, not an unusual condition for me.  If one doesn’t appreciate seeing hundreds of threads per year on different forums relative to bears, why even open them?  If you open the thread and don’t appreciate the content, why reply?  Maybe we should discuss whether a guided hunt is a “true” hunting experience or just a shooting exercise, as the guide probably has studied the area pretty good with “game cameras” and knows the location and habits of the local big game or else he just knows his area very well.  Either way the question can be asked - does the guide provide a babysitting service for the well healed individual doing the shooting?  If you’re not well off financially, why spend the money on a canned hunt? – is that a sportsman way of obtaining meat instead of purchasing it at the market?  I suppose the same could be discussed relative to “preserve hunting”.  Maybe when a thread related to hunting is started we should clarify whether or not it’s a guided hunt, preserve hunt or the ole fashion fair chase and then discuss the merits of the OP’s question or thoughts. 

Myself, I don’t care how a person conducts a legal “hunt” or how he harvests the game, as I will support his choice – I also don’t care what type of threads are started on different forums and I will try to contribute in a positive manner when I do post.     

[Redhawk1]

in alaska you cant hunt bear without a guide so there is no choise in the matter. As to canned hunts id do one every year and dont make appologys for it but then i dont go claiming i was some skilled hunter doing it. I shoot a buffalo at my buddys game farm every year. Its a fun way to test handgun loads for performance. You can do penetration tests till your blue in the face but nothing beats actually shooting an animal. The main reason i do it is i can put good meat in the freezer cheaper then i can buy beef that way.

Now I’m confused, not an unusual condition for me.  If one doesn’t appreciate seeing hundreds of threads per year on different forums relative to bears, why even open them?  If you open the thread and don’t appreciate the content, why reply?  Maybe we should discuss whether a guided hunt is a “true” hunting experience or just a shooting exercise, as the guide probably has studied the area pretty good with “game cameras” and knows the location and habits of the local big game or else he just knows his area very well.  Either way the question can be asked - does the guide provide a babysitting service for the well healed individual doing the shooting?  If you’re not well off financially, why spend the money on a canned hunt? – is that a sportsman way of obtaining meat instead of purchasing it at the market?  I suppose the same could be discussed relative to “preserve hunting”.  Maybe when a thread related to hunting is started we should clarify whether or not it’s a guided hunt, preserve hunt or the ole fashion fair chase and then discuss the merits of the OP’s question or thoughts. 

Myself, I don’t care how a person conducts a legal “hunt” or how he harvests the game, as I will support his choice – I also don’t care what type of threads are started on different forums and I will try to contribute in a positive manner when I do post.     

Well said Lloyd!

[COR]

I vote to to end ALL Bear/Handgun topics...unless they are black bears and we are hunting them with said Handgun.

PLEASE NO MORE GRIZZLY BEAR/BROWN BEAR, WHICH HANDGUN, WHICH 700GR BULLET POSTS!!!!!

I AM A LIBERTARIAN AND EVEN I HAVE MY LIMITS!!!!!!!

STOP THE MADNESS!!!!!!!!

I reserve my right to arm bears and why shouldn't we talk about what those different bears could be packing when we are in their woods?   

I was just trying to ba a little humorous...at least someone gets me.  These posts are evrywhere and it's just always the same answers and I find it funny now.  Someday I will kill a grizz and I will come on here and tell you what handgun I packed.  I will shoot him with my rifle though. 

[ole 5 hole group]

Lloyd, you’ve always got both feet planted firmly and I’ve never read a post by you anywhere that wasn’t in a positive tone.  You’re an asset to any forum you choose to subscribe to.

I probably should have just let this thread take its course but for some reason (probably just ole age) I decided to speak up when I read posts that appeared to me as though some where looking down there nose at others – gets to me at times and maybe I misperceive their intended purpose but this time I felt a broadside was in order, as the canned hunt thing always seems to get people riled up.  You answered in your normal manner – very positive and informative.  Your buddy wouldn't reside in SW North Dakota by chance? 

I’ve had some “interaction” with black bears through the years and as a youngster I had a couple up close & personal encounters while feeding them at dumps.  I’ve been run off a blueberry patch or two as an adult but I always managed to keep my bucket while giving ground.  The western grizzlies aren’t as timid but I haven’t had much experience with them – just made eye contact and they just kept wandering to where ever they were going before we crossed paths.

I would just like to see posters reply in a manner they would like to be replied to; if they asked a question or sought an opinion.  That was the purpose of my last post.   

[Redhawk1]

ole 5 hole group , the problem with theses threads, 99.5 % of the people can only speculate. Until someone that has actually done it several time can you get the real answer to the question..

Stick around here for awhile and see how many of these threads come up and see what the outcome is. It is always the same. No matter how many time the question gets asked, the answers will still be the same. Until that one person does it. 

[S.B.]

I'd be carring a 5" s&w500 by John Ross, great size and performance.

Me too! I love this gun and it is very packable. Would be my first choice.
Steve

[RANGER RICK]

in alaska you cant hunt bear without a guide so there is no choise in the matter. As to canned hunts id do one every year and dont make appologys for it but then i dont go claiming i was some skilled hunter doing it. I shoot a buffalo at my buddys game farm every year. Its a fun way to test handgun loads for performance. You can do penetration tests till your blue in the face but nothing beats actually shooting an animal. The main reason i do it is i can put good meat in the freezer cheaper then i can buy beef that way.

Now I’m confused, not an unusual condition for me.  If one doesn’t appreciate seeing hundreds of threads per year on different forums relative to bears, why even open them?  If you open the thread and don’t appreciate the content, why reply?  Maybe we should discuss whether a guided hunt is a “true” hunting experience or just a shooting exercise, as the guide probably has studied the area pretty good with “game cameras” and knows the location and habits of the local big game or else he just knows his area very well.  Either way the question can be asked - does the guide provide a babysitting service for the well healed individual doing the shooting?  If you’re not well off financially, why spend the money on a canned hunt? – is that a sportsman way of obtaining meat instead of purchasing it at the market?  I suppose the same could be discussed relative to “preserve hunting”.  Maybe when a thread related to hunting is started we should clarify whether or not it’s a guided hunt, preserve hunt or the ole fashion fair chase and then discuss the merits of the OP’s question or thoughts. 

Myself, I don’t care how a person conducts a legal “hunt” or how he harvests the game, as I will support his choice – I also don’t care what type of threads are started on different forums and I will try to contribute in a positive manner when I do post.     

Lloyd
I also love the WHAT IF GRIZZ THREADS .
I am sure you know that a resident does not need a guide to hunt Brown or black bear here in Alaska just a non resident .
As for Grizz and black bear I am one of the few that hunt them with a 500 S&W revolver and have my 500 Cyrus rifle as a back up .
I also use those pesky 700 grainers as my main load .
I have hunted Kodiak brown bear twice with my 500 but none taken ,I do have another 2011 spring Kodiak brown bear hunt that I hope to redeem myself with a beauty !!!!
I am leaving the 20th of this month to do a fly in float hunt in the North Brooks Range for caribou, Brown bear and wolf and again my main firearm will be my 500 smith with my 338 Win mag as a back up .
I have taken Black bear with my 500 although none has been a DLP I have also taken Moose ,caribou and blacktail deer from Kodiak with the 500.
For the most part a rifle is the chosen firearm for bear here in Alaska .

RR

[DJWright]

It would be a handgun small enough to get into action quickly, and able to use with one hand, and would be either .44 or .45 cal. Probably a warm loaded .45 Colt with 300 grain LBTs

[dakotashooter2]

Just a few observations............ undoubtedly a rife should be ones MAIN resource for a self defense shooting against a large bear however as mentioned it is unlikely that one would have it within reach 24/7. Thus a handgun might become your secondary gun. Now I have watched many guys carry guns, usually strung across their shoulder. I question how many of them would be able to react fast enough to bring that rifle to bear  on an animal that began its charge from 30 yards. Now a handgun may not be faster but when quarters start getting real tight even if you are initially bowled over and injured the handgun may be easier to bring into play. The down side may be the false sense of security it provides which may make one less vigilant which often is what gets you inot trouble to start with.

[odoh]

I can understand 'less vigilant' as my 3 contacts w/(albeit black) bears occurred motion was in play before I was. Amazing how quick the action was and how slow my reaction were. Seemingly took forever to release the rifle safety ~ fortunately (for me anyway) in each event the bear would move away from me. I'm not a bear hunter, almost deaf and in advanced yrs not looking for danger. However, in each case the bear circled around behind me for a closer look. The final occasion the blackie was working over a gut pile. It too, circled around behind me and started thrashing the forest. That was one upset bruin. I vacated that patch of timber like walking thru an enemy occupied village. That was my last hunt some yrs back. Now, throw a grizzly into the equation would almost be too much to consider.  

I carry, not sling my rifle and still felt too slow to my liking. To rely on a belt gun for primary protection IMO a step in the wrong direction but wonder how a 1911 based 460 Rowland conversion w/hard cast as a smaller/flatter pkg for secondary/backup for one of those possible awkward times when a rifle is out of reach. I personally don't see myself in (any type) bear country again in the future.

[Dogshooter]

I elk hunt in an area that has grizzlys and have seen a few while out hunting. I carry a .338 Win Mag BAR and a 629 Mountain gun loaded with 312 grain hard cast bullets. Every time I have seen a Griz, I have turned and exited the area as quickly as I could. I killed a Black bear with my bow and it was the scariest experience I have ever had in my life. If confronted with a shoot or die situation, I'd empty the .338 and then the 629 but I would ALWAYS choose to run first. Anyone that thinks they are armed well enough to absolutely, positively, STOP a charge from a griz is delusional.

[swordfish]

This is some good reading on real encounters.

http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2010/05/grizzly-bear-shot-and-killed-hikers-denali-national-park-and-preserve5943
http://www.peninsulaclarion.com/stories/080709/out_478669517.shtml

[uncowboy]

Well this is good timming. I am building the very gun asked about right now. I was surprised that no one mentioned the Ruger Alaskin In 480 cal. They are hard to find so I decided to make my owne with a few extras. I have the 7.5" super Redhawk that is my donor gun. I am cutting the bbl off at the REAR section of the BBL warning lable. This will give me about 1" bbl longer than the Alaskin and a 3.5" bbl overall. This extra bbl will receive a barrel band front sight with a Fiber optic Green (OR MAMY TRININUM DOT) for a front sight and the rear sight will be converted to a V notch express sight. I am going to do a rounded trigger and action job to give me a smooth rollover DA ,Last I am going to figure out a smaller set of grips that will act like a Kframe Round but. MIGHT just thin down the super Redhawk scales and reshape the ruger foam grips to get this not sure yet,. Then  a lanyard loop on it that will most likely be a SS Fishing cable from the frame through the grips. The 480 give you 400-500Gr hard cast bullets with a 3.5" bbl I should be able to break 1000FPS Easilly. The 480 operates at a lower pressurethan the 454 and with the short bbl the 480 is just better! So what I end up with is a small packable 44 Mag that shoots a heavier allready expanded 44Mag to start. It is balisticly a 45 ACP on steroids.   J.Michael
 

[compact45]

Well I'll jump in on this. 

I have killed a Coastal Brown Bear but not in self defense

I didnt use a revolver on this kill but I had actually planned on and was ready to kill a/the bear with a FA 454 Casull 6" with iron sights using Corbon 360 gr Penetrator ammo if the bear was within 30 yards or so.

That distance limit I had set for myself didnt happen on this particular bear so I used my Mod 70 Winchester in 375 H&H with 300 grain Federal Cape Shocks to make the one shot kill at about 90+ yards.

I still would like to make a Browny kill with a handgun but when it comes to personal protection in bear country I would carry the biggest cal revolver or pistol you can shoot well.

Whats that saying in a bear charge situation for 6 shot revolver shooters..."Shot the bear 5 times and if he's still coming save the last round for yourself" 

[SHOOTALL]

I have seen 1200 lb beefs killed with a 22LR . I would hate to have to stop a pizzed off one with it though. I only hunt where black bear roam . We do have a private zoo with lions , tigers , and other big critters about a mile and a half thru. the woods. We keep a 12 ga close for soical events of the 2 or 4 leg type and a 10mm handy also. The glock 10 mm holds alot of bullets and any pizzed off critter will need a shot that breaks something needed to stand up or destory something that makes things work like nervous system . A lung shot might not be quick enough. Having alot of shots in a gun you can recover fast and shoot again makes sense . One shot from a blaster may or may not work fast enough .

[mrussel]

You mean we are supposed to shoot the BEAR?

 That makes a lot more sense. I thought the hand cannon was for me when the bear is chewing my leg off.

[mrussel]

 This is much like guys that have hunted  100's of white tail deer and wanting to hunt elk or moose are not sure what to expect and we get books, ask questions and on.  None of these books talk about bears in the area and what to expect if you see one.

I bought a book on Elk Hunting and it had a whole chapter on them,as well as some humorous and informative anecdotes of encounters with them. It also suggested not standing at the summit of a mountain,which we have lots of out here,in the middle of a thunderstorm. (Thats advice that I know,but I feel it cant be repeated enough as lighting WILL strike twice in the same place,and that place will be the highest point,like the summit of a mountain)

[v-man]

When I read the original question I didn't interpret that the hand gun was the primary hunting tool. He seemed to ask what handgun would you carry, presumably as back-up, in that situation. I'm not sure why all the bashing about using a rifle. We all know a rifle is the best choice and I didn't hear any hint otherwise in the original question. Most of us will never get to hunt Grizzlies or even in grizzly country. So what? What's wrong with daydreaming, speculating or fantacizing. Many of us carry concealed weapons on a daily basis even though we've never been mugged or robbed and statistics indicate we likely never will be. Is that a reason to shut down every thread about concealed carry? I don't go hunting with out a back-up on my hip. Even when hunting with a handgun I have a second handgun. The back-up is usually a Ruger Alaskan in .454 and I carry it all day and don't even know it's there. I don't understand all the comments about this gun or that gun being too heavy. Too long, yes. An all day back-up with 6 or more inches of barrel gets annoying but with a good holster I've never felt it was too heavy. I'm just amazed at how even the simplest questions bring out attempts to belittle and redicule someone and how many posters seem to think the reply button is there to show how rude and unsociable they can be. It makes one hesitant to ask a simple question for fear that someone will use it as there opportunity to put their arrogance and hatefulness on display. Humor is great, opinions are great but it's a small man that has to cut down others to feel good about himself.   

[Cheesehead]

I enjoy these threads.

Cheese

[kynardsj]

Kinda lacking on grizzly here in these Alabama woods, thank goodness, but what ever I hunt, be it deer or hogs, either my 4 5/8 Ruger 45 LC is on my hip or if I'm feeling spry my 500 S&W mag is across my chest. Next week I'll have a Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter in 45 LC that will be tagging along on some hunts.

[demented]

 Handgun?  Grizzly?  Preferably one made from chocolate.....Anything smaller than a 338 Win mag. would make real nervous.  I do wonder if an eight shot shotgun loaded with 1-1/4 oz. three inch Brenneke slugs would have a chance?

[odoh]

I seem to recall a story published in Outdoor Life some yrs ago about an outfitter/guide that had a grizzly or brown, I recall it was a big'n, came into the tent after the scent of a lady during her 'time'. It was dark and the guy had his 44 mag nearby and at that point my memory fails as to specific details but there were some maulings and extended time in the hospital. I do recall he shucked the revolver and got back on the horse that threw him packing a sawed off 10Ga Ithaca automatic shooting 10ga lead ball(s). Perhaps it was more yrs back than I thot. Later Rem came out w/their SP-10 automatic. I donno, perhaps if the mother-in-law could serve as bait for the big bears? 

[bilmac]

There is a whole book about bear maulings, and I think the story odoh recalls was in that book. I bought the book to read before I moved to Alaska which was in the 80s, so he is right it did happen a long time ago. The book described many bear encounters that had happened by that time. I think the frequency has increased a lot since the Feds in their wisdom have decided that grizzlies would be cool to have in the Yellowstone ecosystem.

What I have gleaned from reading the book and paying attention to all encounters since it was written is that a gun gives you a fighting chance, any gun is better than a clenched fist. Men have fought off grizzlies with 357s. These days there is another option to argue about which is pepper spray. I suppose it is lighter than a serious bear fighting handgun, and accuracy wouldn't be so critical, and a big factor in this part of the world is that the parkies will let you carry it but not a 6 shooter.

[SHOOTALL]

There is a whole book about bear maulings, and I think the story odoh recalls was in that book. I bought the book to read before I moved to Alaska which was in the 80s, so he is right it did happen a long time ago. The book described many bear encounters that had happened by that time. I think the frequency has increased a lot since the Feds in their wisdom have decided that grizzlies would be cool to have in the Yellowstone ecosystem.

What I have gleaned from reading the book and paying attention to all encounters since it was written is that a gun gives you a fighting chance, any gun is better than a clenched fist. Men have fought off grizzlies with 357s. These days there is another option to argue about which is pepper spray. I suppose it is lighter than a serious bear fighting handgun, and accuracy wouldn't be so critical, and a big factor in this part of the world is that the parkies will let you carry it but not a 6 shooter.

Just pray for a wind to your back 

[mrussel]

I elk hunt in an area that has grizzlys and have seen a few while out hunting. I carry a .338 Win Mag BAR and a 629 Mountain gun loaded with 312 grain hard cast bullets. Every time I have seen a Griz, I have turned and exited the area as quickly as I could. I killed a Black bear with my bow and it was the scariest experience I have ever had in my life. If confronted with a shoot or die situation, I'd empty the .338 and then the 629 but I would ALWAYS choose to run first. Anyone that thinks they are armed well enough to absolutely, positively, STOP a charge from a griz is delusional.

 I would choose to run if I were with a buddy perhaps. I'm not at all confident at my ability to run faster than a hungry bear,but Im confident in my ability to run faster than most of my friends.    Seriously though,Ive always been told that turning around and running from predators is the quickest way to get them to activate their prey/hunter instincts and chase you down. I would not want to turn my back on any sort of predator. Leaving is one thing,turning and running seems to me to be asking to be a snack.

 Looking at the title I guess the assumption is your hunting something OTHER than bears,and you have a handgun,presumably for hunting that something. I assume you DONT have a rifle,becuase your hunting with your handgun,but I think the answer is,carry something bigger as well like a shotgun or a rifle,rather than upping your caliber so that you have something that will kill bears. In other words,go ahead,take that old ruger in 357 maximum hunting for deer,but carry something else in case you need it.

 This looks like something I would be comfortable having pointed at a charging bear.

[Cheesehead]

I am not sure what an "average" grizzly weighs, but a guy in my home state of Wisconsin just shot a 711 pound black bear. So when I go bow hunting this year, I will pack my Ruger Blackhawk with 310 grain hard cast and a maximum charge of 2400. 

Cheese

[mrussel]

I am not sure what an "average" grizzly weighs, but a guy in my home state of Wisconsin just shot a 711 pound black bear. So when I go bow hunting this year, I will pack my Ruger Blackhawk with 310 grain hard cast and a maximum charge of 2400. 

Cheese

 Thats a good point. I had not thought of that. Here if its bow season you cant have a rifle. You can however have a pistol if you have a concealed carry permit. That pretty much kills those arguments people throw out about how stupid it is to depend on a pistol for bears and how you should have your rifle with you at all times. Apperantly those people who like to talk down to others had not thought of that either.

 My grandfather told a story once of how his grandfather killed a bear with a hatchet. I'm inclined not to believe it,but then again,back then men were REAL men who wore long beards,smelled worse than the bear,didnt take no BS from anything or anyone. ;-)

[mrussel]

I am not sure what an "average" grizzly weighs, but a guy in my home state of Wisconsin just shot a 711 pound black bear. So when I go bow hunting this year, I will pack my Ruger Blackhawk with 310 grain hard cast and a maximum charge of 2400. 

Cheese

 I wonder how a 300gr nosler partion would work. My manual has max load for one that is supposed to get 1500fps

[PeterCartwright]

This recurring thread is at least entertaining.  As it happens, I've been pondering this "which handgun in grizzly country" problem as well.  Some friends are planning a back packing trip to Glacier National Park.  As most readers of this site know, new regs make it possible to legally carry a handgun in beautiful country that also has a healthy population of the big bears.  Let's be clear, the presence of these bears is a wonderful part of Park mystique.  Still, coward that I am, there's a part of me that doesn't particularly relish being so low on the food chain.

Solution?  Folks who live and work in these settings always remind us that prevention is the first key (which means being VERY careful about food, odors and any kind of sneaky walking etc.).  O.K.  That makes sense.  Then, we're advised to purchase bear strength OC spray and given loads of data as to why that's much more effective than firearms for defense against bears (especially better than handguns!).  Well, I guess it wouldn't make much sense to be in grizzly country without keeping the spray on one's person as a first option.  For all kinds of reasons, it's preferable for all concerned to end an altercation without bloodshed...mine or the bear's.

Finally, we're reminded how rare it is to have a violent encounter with grizzlys.  O.K.  I accept the statistics.  Of course the problem with statistics...even the one's that are true...is that SOMEBODY has to be on the losing end.  So if I'm among the .00001/100,000 unfortunates who has a bad day, how am I supposed to be comforted by that?

Now for the "what ifs".  What if the wind is wrong for deployment of the wonderspray?  What if spray alone doesn't dissuade the bear?  What if zombies attack (oops, sorry, that's another thread).

I haven't decided if I can even go on the Glacier trip, but I'm gonna enjoy working on this problem, even if it's only in my own fertile imagination.  Let's see, my 5.5" .44 Redhawk is strong enough, but it needs wheels for transportation...my 7.5" .44 Super Blackhawk shoots great, but the barrel is unwieldy.  I'd love to get a 629 Mountain Gun, but my wife is a more immanent threat than a grizzly, etc.

PC 

[mrussel]

  What if zombies attack (oops, sorry, that's another thread).

 The classic weapons when hunting in zombie country are bats or machetes. Fire can also be effective in the long term,but in the short term you just have a flaming zombie chasing you. The real problem with those is that you have to be up close and personal,and one bite and its your friends who are going to be hacking YOU up. That means that something with a little range is very desirable. Most guns are not really that effective as zombies have no vital spots to hit.Still,shot placement is critical,becuase shots to the chest are pretty much ineffective. What your trying to do with zombies is cause massive damage to its supporting structures,bones and ligaments that is,so that it just cannot continue to stand. (Be careful,even if you hack a leg off a zombie it will still keep crawling after you.)

 The best weapons for zombies are shotguns. Preferably with large capacity detachable magazines,and preferably semi auto,although a pump can work,but you going to want to try to blow out knee caps and such. The best zombie loads for a shotgun are actually the smaller shot sizes. This sounds counter intuitive,but its not when you think about it. Zombies are slow and at long ranges,you can just run,or even briskly walk away. At short ranges the pattern is very tight. The idea is that your going to create a 6 or 8" region of pulverized tissue and shattered bones.

Knees and legs are actually decent targets as once you get the zombie on the ground you can run,or keep shooting until it stops. The pelvis can also be good if you can cause enough damage to the hips. Chest shots are worthless. Head shots CAN be effective,especially several at point blank range. The advantage here is that zombies dont dodge so you can keep pumping shells into its head until it comes clean off and the zombie drops.

 That there is the key. Keep shooting. Far to many people fire one shot at the zombie and maybe even get that rush of adrenalin if its actually knocked down,but when it gets back up and keeps coming,throw down the gun and run,usually tripping over a branch and ending up with their brains being eaten. Try for the good targets like head or legs. If it goes down,whether it be from a chest shot or a head shot or from blowing out a knee,your best bet is to keep shooting. Once its on the ground,multiple head shots can cause enough damage to send it back where it belongs. Above all else,keep one shell in your shirt pocket and dont load it. That ones for you in case you get bitten. Its considered bad form to make your buddies do the job for you.