Author Topic: Newto this stuff help needed  (Read 812 times)

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Offline Camlee98

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Newto this stuff help needed
« on: July 19, 2010, 09:01:43 AM »
Hi all let me first start by saying great site!
Here's what I have. It's a 5in long 3" diam. piece of solid steel that I've bored out 1.5"s. I've only gone down about 4"s at this point. I was thinking about adding a powder chamber. This would only be for salute or noise purposes. No projectiles will be fired. So here are the questions.
1. What would you guys reccomend for a wall thickness?
2. What would I have to do to shoot golf balls? (if possible)
3. How big and deep should my powder chamber be?
4. How deep should I make the bore?
If I wanted to buy more steel to make another salute mortar/cannon.
1. What type of steel should I use? What diam.? What length?
2. Can I use Al and if so same question as above.
Thank in advance for the help!
Don

Offline Zulu

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Re: Newto this stuff help needed
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2010, 09:37:38 AM »
Camlee98.
Welcome to the board.
If your steel is 5" long and you have already bored it 4" deep, I suspect you have gone too far to add a powder chamber.  You also didn't follow the 1/3 diameter for the bore rule.  You should have bored a 1" hole.
Others here will help you along but you might want to consider scrapping and starting over.
Zulu
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Offline Double D

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Re: Newto this stuff help needed
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2010, 10:53:44 AM »
Hi all let me first start by saying great site!

Only great because because of the people who hang out here.

Quote
Here's what I have. It's a 5in long 3" diam. piece of solid steel that I've bored out 1.5"s. I've only gone down about 4"s at this point. I was thinking about adding a powder chamber.

Stop!!! Don't do anything  more yet!  What type of steel is this? Is it suitable for a cannon or mortar?  Not all steel is! 

If the steel is suitable do some research in our References: Cannon FAQ's, Posting Picture Books, the web, and Cannon Plans stickies and find your self a design. Lots of good ideas there.   I would suggest a Coehorn pattern of some sort.  Take a look at the GGaskill design.  Your barrel is a bit short for much else.  You will have to open the ball bore up to 1.723. 

 The powder chamber normally is based on the diameter of the barrel over the chamber.   Based on the dimensions you have given you would have been able to put in a 1 inch chamber.  Powder chamber should not be more than 1/3 the diameter of the barrel at the chamber area.  Using the 3 inch diameter you gave, that means the powder chamber could have beeen no more than 1 inch diameter.  Since you only have 1 inches left to put the chamber, you can only use a 1/2" deep chamber and  that means the diameter can't be more than 1/2" also.  I think you can still redeem this barrel if the steel is good.  That will work just fine for 30-60 yard golf balls.

I know I could save it.
 
Quote
This would only be for salute or noise purposes. No projectiles will be fired. So here are the questions.

We are all are good naturedly snickering a little at this. A lot of us have BTDT. We know better.  One of the things we like to say is to build your gun for how the next guy will use it, not how you will use it.  Trust me when I say you will shoot projectiles.  Why not!

Don't be deceived, pressure is still present even in salute/blank guns.  Mortars don't make a good salute/blank guns.  They go bloop and not bang.
 
Quote
If I wanted to buy more steel to make another salute mortar/cannon.

1. What type of steel should I use? What diam.? What length?

Normally we suggest 1018.   Diameter and length will be dictated by the caliber and type of cannon you want to build. For a first cannon. I suggest you get a set of plans for specific gun and build to plans.  This will give you some sense of proportions and scale, later as you learn more about cannons you can free hand and get creative.

Go to the Blackpowder Cannons and shooting supplies link list in our stickies and look for the folks selling plans and get a set.  Antique Ordnance Publisher sells plans with full scale drawings.  They perhaps are one of the best bargains on the internet.  You may think they are expensive, but when  you get the plans, you will change your mind.   You will have to scale the plans up or down to fit your steel.  If you want to work to an exact scale AOP plans come with a chart telling how convert the measurements to fit.

The other set of drawings I would recommend are those listed as Scale Model Cannon Plans.  I am familiar with the source of the plans and they are good. I just have not ordered from this source.

Quote
2. Can I use Al and if so same question as above.

No! Not strong enough.
 
 

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Newto this stuff help needed
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2010, 11:18:15 AM »
welcome and hang out and surf around awhile its always too bad when folks build something then come in and say Hi .....we can be brutaly honest ,,, while not being terminal ugly ! ;D

Gary

"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Camlee98

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Re: Newto this stuff help needed
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2010, 12:31:09 PM »
Mabey I should scrap this whole post! The piece I'm working on is at work so I was going by what I roughly remembered. I must be getting old because I didn't remember much. Here are the true dimensions I just measured.
3" diameter
1 1/4" bore
2 3/4" depth
6 1/2" long/tall
As far as the type of steel it's unknown and I don't think I have anyway of finding out.
I was going to just buy a salute cannon from cannon thunder, or cannon fuse or one of the other sites but seems these products are not up to standards according to what you guys have posted.
If I buy some steel from one of the sites listed here on this site what type. Meaning while looking at some of those sites there were many different types of steel like cold rolled hot rolled and so on. I'll be doing more research for sure. Again thanks for the help I would prefer not to make the local newspapers if I can avoid it LOL!

Offline Zulu

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Re: Newto this stuff help needed
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2010, 12:44:53 PM »
Those measurements give you a lot more room to work.
Zulu
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Offline Double D

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Re: Newto this stuff help needed
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2010, 01:43:12 PM »
Mabey I should scrap this whole post! The piece I'm working on is at work so I was going by what I roughly remembered. I must be getting old because I didn't remember much. Here are the true dimensions I just measured.
3" diameter
1 1/4" bore
2 3/4" depth
6 1/2" long/tall
As far as the type of steel it's unknown and I don't think I have anyway of finding out.
I was going to just buy a salute cannon from cannon thunder, or cannon fuse or one of the other sites but seems these products are not up to standards according to what you guys have posted.
If I buy some steel from one of the sites listed here on this site what type. Meaning while looking at some of those sites there were many different types of steel like cold rolled hot rolled and so on. I'll be doing more research for sure. Again thanks for the help I would prefer not to make the local newspapers if I can avoid it LOL!

Go back up to my post, your questions are answered there.

I also suggest you contact our sponsors for your cannon needs. I believe Cannonfuse.com gets his cannons from sponsor Dominick Carpenter. Our sponsors under stand about proper cannon construction; such things like proper trunnion size, wall thickness for example.  Not everyone selling cannons on the internet seems to have that knowledge.

Offline Camlee98

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Re: Newto this stuff help needed
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2010, 03:42:28 PM »
Ok I went back to some of the steel sites and now see how it works. 1018 is cold steel and doesn't not have any of the other properties like the hot rolled stuff. So I should be alset with that now. I was also looking at some of the coehorn motars that are for sale. Let me know if I'm wrong but as long as my is correct I can have a bigger bore.
Ex. Bore diameter big enough for a golf ball but the powder chamber no more than 1" in diameter and 1/2" deep.
When I can get to my camera I snap some photos and see what you guys think.

Offline Double D

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Re: Newto this stuff help needed
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2010, 04:39:11 PM »
I want to jump right in here and give you a hand.  But I really don't know what your cannon building skill or knowledgeable level is. 

I am going to suggest that you look at these two Golf ball mortars designd and consider making one of them for a first  mortar project.

GGaskill Golf Ball Mortar Contest Entry
 

DD Golf Ball Mortar Contest Entry

These are the only two Golf ball mortar contest postings left that still have pictures.  Take a look at them.  If one of these look interesting to you, let me know.  I still have some steel left over from the contest that I would send you for postage if you are interested.

This should help you get started.  Drop me a PM if you are interested.

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Newto this stuff help needed
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2010, 06:06:49 PM »
1018 is cold rolled mild steel and 1020 is hot rolled mild steel.  There are a couple of differences between the two besides or caused by the finishing process.  Hot rolled tends to be a little non-uniform in size and it is covered with mill scale (a black flaky oxide coating) and is pretty much stress relieved as purchased.  Cold rolled is fairly shiny and pretty round and is full of stress, which is not all bad as it gives the steel some added strength and only really causes problem if you work with thin sections.

Hot rolled is usually a little cheaper than cold rolled but because of its lack of dimensional accuracy, you usually need to buy a larger piece than you would with cold rolled.  Now if your finished piece is going to be 3.75" diameter, a 4" piece of hot rolled would be OK but if your finished diameter is 4", a piece of cold rolled will be 4" while a 4" piece of hot rolled might not clean up before 3.9".
GG
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Offline Camlee98

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Re: Newto this stuff help needed
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2010, 04:42:45 AM »
Hey Double D I sent you a couple of PM's but I'm not sure if your getting them?

Thanks for that info GGaskill. I do have a question about your mortar design. Why did you use a breech plug? Does that give it more strength? Would it be the same if I just milled out the bore and powder chamber?

Offline Double D

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Re: Newto this stuff help needed
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2010, 05:08:16 AM »
Check your PM's. 

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Newto this stuff help needed
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2010, 07:38:04 AM »
The design of that mortar was for a contest which provided some of the materials.  There is no reason not to make one from a solid piece of steel instead of the tube, plug and rings of that design.  The trunnion would still be easiest to do as a separate piece welded to the barrel.
GG
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Offline dan610324

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Re: Newto this stuff help needed
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2010, 08:34:24 AM »
I would recomend to start with a slightly oversized piece of hot rolled steel
as a first build I think its better to turn and drill a solid piece of steel

BUT THE 1" DIAMETER AND 1/2" DEEP POWDER CHAMBER DOESNT SOUND CORRECT FOR ME

if thats the volume of the powder chamber you need I would recomend you to check what dimensions gives you approximately the same volume if the proportions are the opposit .
the length should be approximately twice the diameter

but as usual this is just my personal opinion
you will probably get more and different recomendations here
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Newto this stuff help needed
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2010, 03:31:27 PM »
The powder chamber on that mortar was 3/4" dia by 7/8" deep and is probably too large in diameter for strictly golf balls.  Firing experiments gave erratic results using the low mass golf balls.  I think I will take it to the range again along with a supply of Fox golf balls and try it again.  I will report the results once the experiment is concluded.
GG
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