.375" 300 gr Sierra's VS Premiums

[FN in MT]

 Regarding the 300 gr Sierras from Ol Moss's thread on his .375 H&H.....

 

Heres some shots of some 300 Sierras retrieved from elk...All but one of  them mature bulls. You will notice the cores on 3 of the 4 slugs have left the jacketing. The one that seems intact...is VERY loose. But it IS intact.

The distances were from 90 yds for the one on the  left, taken  from a spike.   To 300-350  yds for the other three.  All four were one shot kills to the heart/lung area.

The fact that they seperated is a HUGE deal breaker for many.  And I will admit that since Nosler reintroduced their old .375" partition again...I no longer use the Sierras for hunting....other than should I wish to take a deer...then I could also use 260 NP's or the Accubond 260's. More appropriate for the game size than the 300's.

The 300 Sierra BT's  and the Hornady 300 BT's are both very accurate...NO idea how the Hornady's work on game though.

I'm a BIG fan of premium bullets for anything larger than deer...or even for antelope/deer IF the ctg's velocity is 3000 ft Per Sec+.   I'd bet a guy could do OK with a standard cup and core with the .375" though on deer, blk bear , moose/elk. Lots of bullet weight and frontal area working for You already.

 FN in MT

[FN in MT]

Now...some "Premiums" which is probably a good description when You compare their prices to standard cup and core slugs.

From the LEFT.....   .338" Swift A-Frame 250 gr , 247.5 gr as pictured. Taken from a Blue Wildebeest, shot at 70 yds into the center of the chest facing me.

 300 Gr .375" Swift A-Frame taken from a gemsbok shot at 30 yds. Talk about a true test! A VERY  Tough animal with a 2400 fps impact velocity. Retained 100% of it's original 300 grs too.

 .338"  225 gr Nosler Partition.  From a .338-06  at 2600 fps @ the muzzle. Distance was a lasered 280 yds. Slug weighs 192 grs. Notice in normal NP fashion the front core is wiped away. Yet the jacketing and rear core plow on through. A pretty good design. Loses weight, but the rest of the slug soldiers ON.

 Next is a 150 gr NP shot from a 26" Rem 700 in .280 Rem, 3050 fps @ the muzzle. I was out deer hunting and happened on a very nice 6x6 bull. LARGEST bull I EVER shot. Range was a lasered 388 yds and I plunked him in the lungs broadside. Stood there for 20 long sec's then simply dropped onto his chin! That situation is WHY I like a premium slug. They are cheap insurance. I would have never tried that shot with a std slug. Retreived slug weighed 109 grs, found under the hide on the off side.

Next a 175 gr .284" NP from a .280 Rem forget the muzzle velocity...it's pretty low though. Maybe 2700?  Shot into a Black Wildebeest, broadside at 150 yds. Broke the near sholder,found the slug in chest cavity. 108.6 grs.

far RT the last is another .338" Swift A-Frame from my .338-06 this one from a Waterbuck at a mere 30 yds. Broke the near shoulder , found the slug almost through the hide on the off side. 194.0 grs retained weight.

  As You can see I'm a slug saver. I retrieve them..... drop them in a 35mm film canister  and record the data.

[Silvertp]

Very interesting FN.  Thanks for posting and for the pic's.

Over the years I have used a lot of 300 gr. Sierra's in my .375 H&H.  They aren't the toughest bullets but they print clover-leaf groups in my rifle and do put critters down quickly.  I no longer hunt any dangerous game so haven't seen a need to develop a premium bullet load.  My experience pretty much mirrors yours with the Sierra's and Nosler PT. 

Silvertp

[Austin1]

I lost my other post dam! I think it's the chevy truck pop up adds lol!
I use the 300gr Seirra alot and have had good luck with it never had a bullet blow up, yet I have been able to seperate the core after recovering the bullet.I bought my .375 after the nozler droped there 300gr RDN and long before the xbullets or swift were being made the only pitzers were the Serria and 270gr Hornady and the semi Spitzer 300gr Silver tip. Now I do use the ''new'' Nozler often but trust the Serria to do the Job on Elk.
That's one thing us big bore shooters have even if a bullet does fail a little bit it is big enough that even chunks of the bullet get the job done. Half of a 300gr bullet is still 150grs.
One bullet that suprised me was the 235gr Speer in Wet news paper and on game it has worked very well for me.   

[Frank V]

Regarding the 300 gr Sierras from Ol Moss's thread on his .375 H&H.....

 

Heres some shots of some 300 Sierras retrieved from elk...All but one of  them mature bulls. You will notice the cores on 3 of the 4 slugs have left the jacketing. The one that seems intact...is VERY loose. But it IS intact.

The distances were from 90 yds for the one on the  left, taken  from a spike.   To 300-350  yds for the other three.  All four were one shot kills to the heart/lung area.

The fact that they seperated is a HUGE deal breaker for many.  And I will admit that since Nosler reintroduced their old .375" partition again...I no longer use the Sierras for hunting....other than should I wish to take a deer...then I could also use 260 NP's or the Accubond 260's. More appropriate for the game size than the 300's.

The 300 Sierra BT's  and the Hornady 300 BT's are both very accurate...NO idea how the Hornady's work on game though.

I'm a BIG fan of premium bullets for anything larger than deer...or even for antelope/deer IF the ctg's velocity is 3000 ft Per Sec+.   I'd bet a guy could do OK with a standard cup and core with the .375" though on deer, blk bear , moose/elk. Lots of bullet weight and frontal area working for You already.

 FN in MT

  This has been my experience with the Sierra bullets in all calibers I've tried. I won't hunt big game with Sierras.
Frank

[FN in MT]

Frank V,

 The Sierra Gamekings pose quite a dilemma. They tend to be wondefully accurate, are reasonably priced, readily available, but generally do not stay together on game.  Then again...They have NEVER failed to cleanly kill deer or elk for me.  We are SO wound up over retained weight now.  We kill something cleanly, find the slug and it retained say 70% weight. The hunter is aghast that  the slug "failed'! Ridiculous.

  But the possibility of a failure leading to loss of an animal SO plagued me .....I eventually switched over to Nosler Partitions.

  Years back I attended the Safari Club annual convention and got talking with Craig Boddington about the Sierras as I recalled him using the 300 gr .375" on a CAPE BUFFALO!! His comment was basically "Now we have better choices". 

  I think for use on deer or antelope std cup and core slugs by Hornady, Speer, etc  all work fine. Neither are tough to kill. Other than the guys using the REAL high velocity chamberings...then I like a premium simply as insurance that the slug will make it to the vitals...not blow up on the outside as they occasionally do.

FN in MT

 

 

[Grumulkin]

There is a little common sense that should go into bullet selection.  If you are taking on an Elk with a .224 caliber bullet (legal in places), you probably ought to go for the premium ones.  When you're playing with 300 grains of copper or lead out of a .375 caliber firearm, then if you even lose half the bullet in the process of killing the animal, there is still 150 grains left.  And, where is the rest of the bullet?  That would be in little fragments in the animal that did their own damage.

I used a 375 H&H Magnum in Africa loaded with cheap 270 grain cup and core Speer bullets that shot well in my rifle.  In fact, they shot significantly better than the Barnes TSX bullets I tried.  Two Warthogs, an Impala, a Blue Wildebeest, a Blesbok and a Zebra fell to that bullet each with one shot.  In my opinion, accuracy trumps about everything else.  The great preoccupation with "premium" bullets and concern over bullets holding together is a testimony of shooter's gullibility regarding what advertisers say and a poor grasp of what it is about bullet performance that dispatches an animal swiftly.

[FN in MT]

Grumulkin,

  Look at the two Swift A-Frames in the 2nd digital. Now THERE is some internet hunting forum...bragging rights!!  They are beautiful!!  Don't Ya know thats what it's ALL about?

  I agree that MANY have taken the "Premium bullet" obsession way too far. Unless it opens up to 200%+ original diameter and retains 99% weight...they feel as though it "failed". An over exageration I know... but  hunters are far too critical of their slugs performance.

 Though the same could be said for striving for the lightest rifle, highest velocity, benchrest accuacy, etc.

 I did some of my best big game hunting years back with a gun that barely grouped  1.5" foor 3 shots at 100 yds day to day. Yet....still accurate enough to pop the lungs on deer and elk out to 300 yds.

 Many of us apparently like to obsess on what we feel it takes to do the job, or the right tool for the job. Variety IS the spice of Life I guess?

 FN in MT

BTW...Barnes TSX NOT shooting well enough...NO news flash there. I tried Barnes slugs a dozen years back in three or four rifles. Could not make ANY of them shoot well enough to make me happy. And the FOULING!! Epic.  Gave up on Barnes after wasting a few hundred bucks on their slugs.  Before a dozen of You post how WONDERFUL Barns slugs are...I don't care.

 

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

FN, Over the years we have shot quite a few elk..many with the cup and core bullets like Serria 165 grain HPBT, even some 150 grain Nosler BTBT...when punched through the lungs from the side DEADLY, as you well know...but a bit of an angle and big trouble can occur...I am sure as you well know...the only elk I lost took a hit behind the should from a 165....I wanted to punch the shoulder due to the angle, but was afraid of bullet blowup as it was fairly close...as a result, I went behind the shoulder, and a slight angle caused me to only catch one lung...disaster...the elk got off and was ruined by the time it was located...had I hit both lungs, it would have been over, BUT if I had used a Nosler Part. or similar slug, and punched the shoulder and lungs it would have also been over...after that , I have pretty much stuck with Nosler Part. Even on mulies, a chest hit might let them run a bit, but there was always an excellent blood trail. Over the years we have even shot some whitetails with 200 grain Nosler Part. they did an excellent job...little blood shot meat, exit holes, even at bad angles, great performance...I have tried the accubond in my .340 while it lost considerable wt. from 225 to 90 grain, the core was still in the jacket...may give these a try this year...Also dropped an elk with a 200 grain Acc. from a .300, but had the elk processed for a friend and was unable to recover the bullet....When I was in Africa, my pal shot a .338 with 250 Nosler Part.  we recovered several of his bullets...I shot a .300 with 200 grain Part...the only slug I was able to locate that did not pass though was from a Wildbeast...hit the left shoulder and the 200 grain Nosler was found in the right hip...penetration..I did weight it at the time and have it somewhere in the reloading room, but performance was excellent...
As you said on game bigger than deer/antelope premiums are cheap insurance....Had Elmer started with Noslers, he might NOT have loved big bores sooooooooooooo much!!!!!
Just got home from a trip to Washington, and fished in Montana...beautiful trout waters...never saw an elk...tons of whitetails, and a few mulies...beautiful state..

[FN in MT]

Wyo Coyote Hunter,

  Your experiences mirror mine on deer and elk.  Seems over the years that the few problems we ever had with bullets were a lack of penetration problem...IF the hunter put that slug in the PROPER place. Had FAR more issues with poor placement than poor bullet performance..."Poor Hunter Performance" syndrome??

 
FN in MT

[danny pay]

hi
what about 300 grain hornady INTERLOCK spitzer bt bullets? i bought a few boxes for my brno 602, but haden't time yet to try them
These bullets are usually tougher than sierra and have good accuracy too. dose anyone tried them?
kind regards
danny

[Frank V]

hi
what about 300 grain hornady INTERLOCK spitzer bt bullets? i bought a few boxes for my brno 602, but haden't time yet to try them
These bullets are usually tougher than sierra and have good accuracy too. dose anyone tried them?
kind regards
danny

I have never had a Hornaday bullet come apart & I've shot game & rolled up rubber matting. The Rubber matting is very tough & will cause a bullet to come apart if it's going to. Most of the Sierra's I've shot into the matting have shed jackets. I had a friend shoot a small buck just behind the shoulder with a Sierra 150gr in a .30-06 & we recovered the core minus the jacket in a Pine tree behind him. The jacket was in the bark near the core. He called Sierra thinking they should know about the seperation. They asked him what about the deer dieing were you unhappy with? I use Sierra's for varmint hunting, they do blow up marviously, but won't hunt big game with them.
Two years ago I shot a young Cow Elk with my .375 H&H using old stock 275gr Barns X bullets (not made anymore) I was almost 300 yards from her & about 500' above her on a mountain. She was quartering away at a brisk walk. I held foreward on her left shoulder & fired. My partner said she hunched up & flinched at my shot. We found her 30 yards from where I'd shot at her. The bullet entered high just behind the last rib, quartered foreward & exited just behind the right shoulder. It wasn't recovered. I don't think I'd have gotten that kind of performance from a bullet shedding it's jacket. I won't use one that will shed it's jacket more often than not.
Do I always use premium bullets? NO, I've driven the Hornaday 270gr bullets through Deer front to back & not recovered one in game yet.
I use Sierra's for varmint hunting, they blow up marviously, but won't use one for big game hunting.
Frank

[redneckdan]

Funny, you'd think that people who flip out when they find a core separation would step back a second realize that in order to even find the bullet the animal is dead.....the bullet did it's job.  The nice thing about using a medium to large bore is that the bullets are big enough they can afford to lose significant weight and work fine.   

[Camp Cook]

My buddies and I live in British Columbia, Canada we have been using the 300gr Gamekings in our assorted 375 cal rifles for years (we all now shoot 375RUM's) on a lot of our big game hunting and have harvested buffalo/moose/elk/deer/black bears with it I'm the only one that has shot a grizzly lately and used a 300gr Partition.

We have had core separation almost every time we recover a bullet one buddy shot an 6 point bull elk @ 80 yards last year hit it in the neck drove its head into the ground but the core separated he started spewing that the bullet failed I asked him if he lost the elk he said no it dropped instantly I then asked what part of the bullet separating failed to kill the elk.

With that said I am now loading 260gr Accubonds @ 3020fps their BC's/accuracy are equal but I can push them a lot faster than the 300's so figure that they would be a better do everything bullet.

I load 350gr TSX @ 2450fps for my big bear/defense round.

[jro45]

Those 300 Sierra are very accurate. I haven't shot many Premiums I found those by Sierra and haven't left them.

[Texbguy]

I recently bought a .375 H & H .. haven't shot ir yet and am not a reloader. Whats a good reasonably priced factory cartridge to start with? Thanks..

[Lloyd Smale]

ive used seirras and nos bt probably more then any other game bullets. Sure most of it has been on deer and black bear where the animal rarely goes over 300 lbs but ive yet to loose an animal or badly wound one that could be blamed on the bullet. I wonder how many of those so called bullet failures you here about with them are just guesses that cover up poor shooting. I couldn give a rats @@@ if my core and jacket seperates as long as the animal is dead. those two bullets tend to give me the best accuracy in most guns and shot placement is more important to me especially when you get out to 3-400 yards then a bullet that holds together. I would also rather risk damaging a little meat if the shot is closer then expected then risk a bullet that pensils through at 300 yards and doesnt do enough damage to humanely put down the animal. Something i have seen with barnes bullets and with some of the bonded core bullets when they first came out. Two premium bullets i do use and like are the nos part. and the speer grand slam. Both of those bullets have never let me down and are never a bad choise. But the bottom line is if a seirra is shooting 3/4s of an inch in a 300mag and the partition is shooting 2 inch im going hunting with the seirra. If i get a couple more lbs of hamburger then expected so be it and especially in the case of your 375 i cant imagine an animal that that sierra wouldnt knock the cork out of short of a cape buffalo.

[Drilling Man]

  I've seen those Sierra's loose their core before, and it would be no big deal on a small animal like a deer.  But on a big animal that you aren't so over gunned for like you are with a deer, it's a HUGE deal to me, and unacceptable.

  Just like the .338 Sierra's, very accurate, but i won't use them any longer for the biggest animal or for DG.

  DM

[Lloyd Smale]

got to agree with redneckdan. How can a bullet fail if you have it in your hand. A guyed look pretty funny riding the back of a wounded elk trying to get a bullet out. id bet in this day and age of lazy people that just as many animals are lost because a premium bullet did less internal damage and ran off two hundred yards before dieing and the hunter was to stupid or lazy to find it. You can argue with my till your blue in the face but ive yet to put a cup and core bullet into any animal of any size that with good shot placement i didnt eat meat the next day. Id bet about 98percent of what idiots claim are failures with the that an animal wasnt recovered are due to poor markmanship. Most would rather blame a bullet then admit they cant shoot.

[Dill45]

Sorry for my ignorance...but how could you tell if a bullet failed if you didn't recover the animal?  For all any one knows your shot could have been placed horribly more so than the bullet exploded on the shoulder or something.

[Drilling Man]

Sorry for my ignorance...but how could you tell if a bullet failed if you didn't recover the animal?  For all any one knows your shot could have been placed horribly more so than the bullet exploded on the shoulder or something.

  A big game hunting bullet bullet that "explodes" on the shoulder would be a gross failure of the bullet!  Ohh, and i accept your apology.  lol

  DM

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive kill a ton of deer with seirras and bts and have never once seen one of them blow up on a deers shoulder. I know an elk may be a bit bigger boned but were talking 375 h&h here not 257 weatherbys and the seirra and nos bullet in those calibers are made to take bigger game. I may not be the foremost expert on terminal ballistics but i can say without hesitation that if you shoot an elk with a 375 using a sierra or bt and you dont recover that animal you can bet your childs life on the fact it was your fault not the gun or the bullets. 20 years ago most of the so called gun experts were singing the prazes of using a 270 with cup and core bullets on elk and todays cup and core bullets are much better then what they were using back then. A 375 on elk is like killing flys with a baseball bat! dont get me wrong i wouldnt be beyond doing it myself and even use 300mags, 338s and 8mags on whitetail but dont have any illusion that there needed. I chuckle at all the premium bullets on the market today. Every maufacture makes a number of them. they got people that dont know any better convinced that somehow the game animals we shoot have evolved into steal plated beasts that require there fancy bullets cost twice as much and that dont do much more they help the stock holders in there companys. If you feel you need a moly coated bonded core bullet with a pretty colared plastic tip have at it boys. Me ill for the most part stick with bullets like sierras and corelocks. theyve kept my freezer full for many years.

[Camp Cook]

I had my Rem 700 LSS in 375RUM set up with 2 types of bullets 300gr Partitions & Gamekings both loads averaged 2775fps and they shot to the same point of aim @ 100 - 200 yards.

When hunting bigger game than deer I used the Partitions for when shots were out to 250 - 300 yards and the Gamekings out to 500 yards due to their amazing accuracy out of my rifle.

I had both loads with me when I spotted this grizzly shot was 230 - 250 yards chose to load the Partitions when I saw the size of the bear, hit it just behind the right leg and the bullet exited thru the off shoulder it still ran over 75 yards into the thickest bush you could imagine.

I chose the Partitions because even though I know the Gameking would get the job done I know that the partition would hold together better.

It was to late to head into the bush that evening after the bear so we came back in the morning I carried my Marlin 1895GS in 45-70 loaded with 525gr Beartooth Piledriver's @ 1600fps when I headed in the for the bear my son carried his short barreled Rem 870 12 gauge loaded with 3" Bennekke slugs.



Have it hanging on the wall of the biggest outdoor store here in British Columbia now I have no where in my house that it would fit...

[nomosendero]

CC, thanks for the pics & good story.

[ioni]

...I am now loading 260gr Accubonds @ 3020fps their BC's/accuracy are equal but I can push them a lot faster than the 300's so figure that they would be a better do everything bullet...

That's rather fast, isn't it? How does the bullet work in an animal? What if it hits a large bone (as sometimes happens in real life)? Anyone?

[Camp Cook]

Accubonds are a bonded core bullet that is designed to retain 60% of their original weight, I haven't had a chance to shoot anything with this bullet/load combo yet I've been working with/on a couple other rifles/cartridges this last year and my only experience on game with the 375RUM so far is a grizzly and I was loaded with 300gr Partitions...

With the 3020fps muzzle velocity the bullet has dropped to 2850fps @ 100 yards and 2600fps @ 200 yards I'm thinking that it will stand up to those kinds of velocities.

In my 26" barreled 300RUM I shoot 200gr Accubond's @ 3200fps and 180gr Scirrioco's @ 3380fps muzzle velocity these bullets are designed for these higher velocities the wider/heavier 260gr should do an even better job at the far lower velocities that I am shooting them at.

[ioni]

Camp Cook sure likes speed! Not a bad thing in itself, methinks.

With a muzzle velocity of 2625 fps, .375 260 gr Accubond should still fly at about 2000 fps at 330 yds - still within the velocity range for the bullet to work?? (In case you are wondering, I live in a metric country and aim at max 300 m range for my large game cartridges. No farther since I'm just an average Joe when it comes to shooting.) I'd like to have as little bullet fragmentation as possible. There is the risk of a bad shot when taking on a running moose bull at 30 yds.

While I've studied bullets, I haven't fired a single Accubond and do not know how much the bullet can take. So far, I've used factory .308 Norma Oryx for moose. 

I am planning on testing my loads for accuracy, velocity and terminal performance before the next season so I won't have to guess.

[Camp Cook]

Actually I kind of like them all slow/med/fast/hyper...   

My other 375 right now is my 21" tapered barreled T/C Contender carbine in 375JDJ just look a little left it is the rifle in my avatar pic.

I load it with the same 260gr Accubonds @ 2300fps which still gives me 1800fps @ 300 yards the scope is an older Vari X 111 2.5-8X36mm that I had a B&C reticle installed in I have the main reticle zeroed 1" high @ 100 yards the first B&C line down is 1" high @ 200 yards and the second B&C line down is dead on @ 300 yards.

Due to the Accubonds expanding down to 1800fps I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a moose with this combo out to 300 yards but due to the velocity that is the max range I will ever shoot this cartridge @ any kind of game animal.

I've only shot one appr 6' black bear with this combo distance was appr 90 yards dropped the bear instantly it did start to get up a few seconds later so I hit it again and everything was over...

I am also looking for a rifle/cartridge combo that will give me 2600fps - 2650fps with a 260gr Accubond thinking a wildcat on a 300WSM or 325WSM case necked up to .375" would be exactly what I want and the rifle will be either a 21" barreled Rem 700 or a T/C Encore/Prohunter I have found a NIB black/gray laminate stainless steel Ruger #1 in 375 Ruger at a decent price that I may go for as well and just reduce the velocity...

[ioni]

Nice T/C!

I'll quite possibly move up to the 300 gr Accubond once I know my way around my new Howa 375 Ruger. Or maybe there's no need to do so. Next season will hopefully tell.

If everything I've read about Sierra Game King is true, it's probably a good practice bullet. It is very likely that all my .375 hunting needs will be fulfilled by Accubond.

[mcwoodduck]

I recently bought a .375 H & H .. haven't shot ir yet and am not a reloader. Whats a good reasonably priced factory cartridge to start with? Thanks..

Remington 270 grain Soft points   about $50 a box of 20 from either Cabela's or Bass Pro where I have been picking mine up.