Author Topic: Immigrants taking jobs away from americans? Apparently not all jobs  (Read 648 times)

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Offline guzzijohn

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The last I heard on a farm radio channel there have been no takers.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100624/ap_on_en_tv/us_immigration_take_our_jobs
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Offline Matt

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Re: Immigrants taking jobs away from americans? Apparently not all jobs
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2010, 03:54:47 PM »
Link Fixed
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Immigrants taking jobs away from americans? Apparently not all jobs
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2010, 05:51:10 PM »
Farm labor is not the jobs in question.  My niece's husband before he married her and became legal had a good paying job that many Americans would have loved to have had.  While an Illegal he was making 80K a year in the construction business.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
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Offline magooch

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Re: Immigrants taking jobs away from americans? Apparently not all jobs
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2010, 04:54:13 AM »
I don't know about the rest of the country, but around here it is very common to see most of the roofing crews and a lot of the house framing crews to be populated by Latino looking folks.  Now that alone doesn't necessarily mean they are illegals, but when they speak mostly Spanish and just give you a blank look when you try to talk to them....

We also have a very high incidence of Latinos involved in car prowls, drug dealing, car theft and knife and gun fights.  These also are not necessarily illegals, but I'm for sending them out of the country anyway.
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Offline turk762

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Re: Immigrants taking jobs away from americans? Apparently not all jobs
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2010, 05:11:54 AM »
I work in the drywall trades and a couple of years ago I was to start a 50 unit apartment building the next day, we called the contractor (the day before) that was running the job, and he said that he had a crew of mexicans come and talk to him and offered to do the job allot cheaper then what we could and he was going with them unless we could match the price (couldnt come close).

 For the amount of money the mexicans were doing this job for, was less then you get paid as a employee for the cheapest local contractors. I can only assume everything was not on the up and up. Send them a 1099 at the end of the year and it gets lost in the mail.

The friend I was doing the work with had done this contractors work for years, so he never had a need for a contract, just come and do the job send the bill and always got paid. no problems.

But this was the beginning of my struggle with this economy, and its getting worse and worse.


Offline blind ear

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Re: Immigrants taking jobs away from americans? Apparently not all jobs
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2010, 07:51:02 AM »
The economy here is still slowing down, Mississippi. My son moved back here from FL because he was laid off as a rigger at a high dollar boat marina where sales dropped. Sales are still bad there. Close to 3 years.

Back here he has laid floor tile. It is slowing down gradually from then till now. His friends in the other building trades are seeing the same thing.

Before he left FL he said the Mexicans were leaving going back to Mexico because there was no work in FL.

Reguardless of the reason for the downturn, it appears the recovery isn't happening. Rather than the storm, this may be the calm before the storm. eddiegjr
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Offline turk762

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Re: Immigrants taking jobs away from americans? Apparently not all jobs
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2010, 10:39:44 AM »
The economy here is still slowing down, Mississippi. My son moved back here from FL because he was laid off as a rigger at a high dollar boat marina where sales dropped. Sales are still bad there. Close to 3 years.

Back here he has laid floor tile. It is slowing down gradually from then till now. His friends in the other building trades are seeing the same thing.

Before he left FL he said the Mexicans were leaving going back to Mexico because there was no work in FL.

Reguardless of the reason for the downturn, it appears the recovery isn't happening. Rather than the storm, this may be the calm before the storm. eddiegjr

May be this economic downturn is a blessing in disguise if the mexicans go home because their is no work.
I dont care if they are here as long as it is legally.

Offline Sourdough

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Re: Immigrants taking jobs away from americans? Apparently not all jobs
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2010, 09:16:51 PM »
guzzijohn:  Most of the farm labors are legal anyway.  They have been coming to the US to work for decades, and most have work papers.  They do not want Illigals in the migrant camps, they say it gives them a bad reputation, and they are trouble makers.  I know because when I lived in Florida the pickers were all living in the migrant labor camp, down the road from my house.  My good buddies Mom was a migrant, she lived in the camp.  I went there a lot with Joe to see his Mom and brothers.  They were all Migrants, and not US citizens.  They had work papers, and had crossed the border legally to work.  Joe, the only one of her sons to have been born in the US, did not want to return to Mexico after he grew up.  Joe was working with me in construction in the Miami, Homestead, area.  Joe's Mom and brothers returned to Mexico every year when the crops slowed down for the winter season.  Then when the crops started getting near time for harvesting they showed up back in the camp.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
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Offline gypsyman

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Re: Immigrants taking jobs away from americans? Apparently not all jobs
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2010, 04:13:48 AM »
When I was growing up, here in NW Ohio, it was very common for migrants to come and go. Strawberry season,late May, early June, then July for pickle's, then the end of summer,August/Sept. for the tomatoe's.
They were hard working, and had green cards for the season. At least the ones I got to know did. Several familys got their citizenship's, and stayed permanently. Several graduated school with me.
Now that mechanical pickers do most of the work, don't see the field workers much anymore. Once in awhile you might see some out doing some field work on the smaller farms.
With the economy going into a nose dive, you'll see even less. Farmers are cutting back. I've got several hundred acre's around me, just sitting idol. Lousy spring kept the farmers out of the field until it was to late. Not sure if their even going to plant winter wheat, which doesn't take many field hands. Price of everything going up, no matter who does the work. gypsyman
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Offline Dee

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Re: Immigrants taking jobs away from americans? Apparently not all jobs
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2010, 04:31:41 AM »
The only way to really solve this problem is to ONE: Shut down the borders, and TWO: FINE and or JAIL the employers of illegals, THREE: FINE or JAIL, the ones renting housing to them, and FOUR: FINE or JAIL the ones selling transportation (such as cars) to them. Then they will SELF DEPORT back to Mexico.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline jlchucker

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Re: Immigrants taking jobs away from americans? Apparently not all jobs
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2010, 04:50:19 AM »
The only way to really solve this problem is to ONE: Shut down the borders, and TWO: FINE and or JAIL the employers of illegals, THREE: FINE or JAIL, the ones renting housing to them, and FOUR: FINE or JAIL the ones selling transportation (such as cars) to them. Then they will SELF DEPORT back to Mexico.

The laws, Dee to do just that are already on the books.  Before any liberal socialist whiner starts they should realize that at least the last three complete rewrites ( actually large-scale tweaks) were spearheaded by none other than Ted Kennedy.  While I'm no fan of this late Senator, he and the rest of congress actually did a decent job of what are referred to in the business as "Immacts"  (insider term for Immigration and Nationality Act).  All of the things that the present crop of politicians bring up when they talk about "comprehensive immigration reform" are already in place--both laws and regulations.  These things get passed, then ignored by the management of responsible agencies, without any congressional oversight.  There are already lots of ways for aliens to come in legally.  Visa numbers in each category are supposed to be set annually by congress. Employer sanctions are already on the books but it's only enforced on occasion.  Further, aliens here illegally are inadmissible.  If they haven't broken any laws, and self-deport, then there's an off chance that they could get back in (legally) if an employer filed a petition for them because we'd never know they were even here.  Everything you said, Dee, can happen right now, without fanfare.  The problem is that they've let it go so far that instead of being just a problem (like it was back in 1990 and earlier) it's now out of control.  The fault is with Congress and the Executive branch for their negligence in enforcing the laws they've already made and passed.

Offline Dee

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Re: Immigrants taking jobs away from americans? Apparently not all jobs
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2010, 05:17:06 AM »
The problems with illegals didn't start in the 90s jlchucker. I was working drug smugglers in the 70s.
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Offline jlchucker

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Re: Immigrants taking jobs away from americans? Apparently not all jobs
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2010, 07:07:55 AM »
The problems with illegals didn't start in the 90s jlchucker. I was working drug smugglers in the 70s.

No doubt, Dee. Somebody was probably even working drug smugglers way before you did in the 70's.  But Illegal immigration has much broader implications that just drug smuggling.  The present Immigration and Nationality Act goes back to 1952, and Ted Kennedy's major efforts began with the revisions that started in 1965. There have been illegal aliens even before then, but not like today.  Employer sanctions as we know them today were written into the Act in the revision of 1986.  I never said that drug problems began in the 1990's but the full implementation of employer sanctions were introduced with Immact 90. I was working Immigration petitions and waivers at that time--employment based ones at that, in all categories.  Although employer sanctions had been introduced into law, there was nobody really allowed to do much more than the occasional raid of a food-processing plant here and there back then. INS (as it was known back then) was under pretty liberal management , so most of the provisions of, and opportunities for enforcement of employer sanctions went largely ignored under the guise of a "lack of resources".  Actually, self-deportation as you described had been allowed by immigration judges as a practice as well, for individual illegals.  That probably still is.  All too often, these self-deported aliens keep returning, getting caught, and getting deported again.  Your original solution today stressed going after employers and renters.  That's possible but not done, and never has been, in very many instances.  My point is that most of the solutions that you proposed in your original comments are already part of the law, but now being proposed all over again under the guise of "comprehensive immigration reform".  It's all a political smokescreen, made to appear like a major reform but with the objective being another complicated, expensive, and counterproductive solution that's really amnesty for the illegals already here.  Did you ever get to work any of the "amnesty" cases from the last go-round?  That one has been a mess ever since.

Offline gypsyman

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Re: Immigrants taking jobs away from americans? Apparently not all jobs
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2010, 09:41:11 AM »
My dad was born in 1918. He grew up during the depression. Even back then, the railroad had what was called ''gandy dancers''. Most of the time, my dad said they were Mexicans, mostly wetbacks. Work the rails. Planted marajuana along the tracks. He remembers RR dicks pulling plants out in the neighborhoods when the trains would be pulling into the stations. Since they worked the rails, probably alot got ''planted'' out in the country, where the trains went full speed. gypsyman
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Immigrants taking jobs away from americans? Apparently not all jobs
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2010, 09:45:36 AM »
Quote
Before he left FL he said the Mexicans were leaving going back to Mexico because there was no work in FL.

This is true.  They did good work and made good money.
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Offline jlchucker

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Re: Immigrants taking jobs away from americans? Apparently not all jobs
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2010, 12:59:12 PM »
The migrant workers that both Sourdough and Gypsyman mentioned as being legal in all likelihood probably are/were. These are nonimmigrant temporary workers, in the H2A classification.  This classification is designed for seasonal agricultural workers, and is nothing new.  They are petitioned for by employers every year, and approved petitions (either as groups or for individuals) are good for a specified time limit, usually a growing season. Here in the northeast, it's usually for apple pickers, typically from Jamaica. The nonimmigrant workers in this classification rarely overstay--often the same ones come back, year after year, to work for the same employers.  There's other seasonal classifications for other types of workers, like those that work at resorts, for example.  Each classification is allotted a given number of workers each year.  Who determines these numbers?  Why our Congress, of course.  They vote the the number of aliens in each classification year after year.  The workers who are admitted in these classes are NOT illegals, and have no reason to sneak across borders.  They are NOT illegal aliens, they are nonimmigrant workers, lawfully admitted.  The politicians, as well as do-good liberals who staff nonprofit "help the poor migrant" agencies like to blur that distinction.  Illegal is illegal.  Those who aid and abet illegal activities are crooks whether they sit in congress or stand around chanting with Mexican flags and protest signs.  Lawfully admitted foreign folks have been welcomed in the past and should not be confused with illegals or crooks. If not enough foreign workers are being admitted on temporary visas each year, the fault rests with those who set the number to be admitted, and that is Congress. The same Congress that is responsible for our immigration problems in the first place.