Author Topic: retiring a tube  (Read 845 times)

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Offline navygunner

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retiring a tube
« on: July 20, 2010, 12:08:21 PM »
In light of the recent number of accidents and such, there is a question I've not seen addressed. That being when to retire a tube as unsafe? Is there a certain number of shots etc? I know the cw manuals had vent erosion shapes and you recorded the number of shots. Parrotts were noted for a short lived barrells.

Geo. Dailey
battery D 1st michigan light artillery
U S Naval Landing Party
owner of a dom. swivel gun

Offline robbob

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Re: retiring a tube
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2010, 12:21:23 PM »
I retired the first golf ball mortar I ever had.  It was given to me by a friend.  After firing it a few times I realized it was nothing more than a pipe bomb waiting to happen.  I think it is buried in my garage now if it didn't make it into the trash can.


Offline RocklockI

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Re: retiring a tube
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2010, 12:23:44 PM »
I think your Dom swivel is worn out ,send it to me for proper disposal . ;)

That is a good question , but I think it would be very hard to wearout a modern well made tube .

I know the "test to destruction" Armor 77 's iirc Parrott howie was retired after being abused , it still didnt blow......up .

Old ones , I dont know , proly s/b retired already ?  jmho
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: retiring a tube
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2010, 12:25:08 PM »
Someone here mentioned recently (that's like saying "I heard ..." ) a number of rounds for older cannons; if I'm not mistaken it was in the hundreds of rounds.

The issue is that no one logs EACH round, EACH charge, EACH projo.

When I was in the Artillery we had a Log Book for each tube.  At 4000 charge 7 equivalent rounds, the tube was retired (watched carefully prior to that too).  Anything less than charge 7 took 4 rounds to make one chrage 7 (maximum).

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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: retiring a tube
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2010, 12:28:42 PM »
I've heard of MANY stories of sergeants/officers watching the tube just prior to the 4000 count.  Cracks would appear, and sometimes pieces would break out from near the muzzle.  (That is the reason for the muzzle swell - to reinforce the muzzle.)

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Offline RocklockI

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Re: retiring a tube
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2010, 12:33:38 PM »
Someone here mentioned recently (that's like saying "I heard ..." ) a number of rounds for older cannons; if I'm not mistaken it was in the hundreds of rounds.

The issue is that no one logs EACH round, EACH charge, EACH projo.

When I was in the Artillery we had a Log Book for each tube.  At 4000 charge 7 equivalent rounds, the tube was retired (watched carefully prior to that too).  Anything less than charge 7 took 4 rounds to make one chrage 7 (maximum).



So if anything less than a 7 took 4 rounds to equate a 7 ....... 4 rounds of charge 6 equals one charge 7 ?

I'd keep an eye on them too !  :o
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline RocklockI

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Re: retiring a tube
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2010, 12:36:26 PM »
What are your thoughts on the subject Navy Gunner ? I only shoot the little ones .
Gary
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: retiring a tube
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2010, 12:38:11 PM »
Yes.  Charge 7 was stout and only a little more powder than charge 6.  They were pushing the strength of the metal to the limit.  Well engineered, well documented.  It was a system that was generally very accurate on the number of rounds - but one ALWAYS took precautions and checked after EVERY shot when the end-of-life was being approached.
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline armorer77

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Re: retiring a tube
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2010, 02:00:22 PM »
Rocklock , My Parrot has not been quite retired yet . Today at work I decided to run one more test . Hopefully this week end . However , this tube is retired from any shooting other than R&D . Armorer77

Offline navygunner

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Re: retiring a tube
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2010, 02:31:43 PM »
What are your thoughts on the subject Navy Gunner ? I only shoot the little ones .
Gary

Gary,
  I'm not really sure. I do believe modern steel tubes will outperform anything from the CW era. My swivel has between 80-87 600grain charges through it and they are only salute charges. I posed the question to see what opinions this board had as I find this forum to be at the fore front of cannon related info.

geo

Offline RocklockI

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Re: retiring a tube
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2010, 02:59:26 PM »
I would think that swivel gun is as good as the day it was made . Thats alot of shots but no 'real hammering'

kinda like highway miles VS around town on a used vehical....?  JMHO

Gary
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline KABAR2

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Re: retiring a tube
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2010, 05:25:30 PM »
What I find interesting that back in the 1700's in older fortifications which had layers of defense
your first class guns were in the fort proper the 2nd class on the outer wall and
the third would be placed out beyond that, the third class guns could be 30 or more
years old, You will find Spanish artillery built in the 18th Century that had in the mid 1800's
had been rifled, I am wondering if there are reports of it still in use during the Spanish American war....
there is a photo in the current artilleryman that shows a period photo of American troops with a captured
Spanish copy of a french rifled mountain gun that was still in use.

it would appear that a system for retiring guns didn't come about until the
mid 1800's now it's down to a science, the military tests and tests to discover the limit
of the arms in use weather it be a M16 or a 155mm  one weapon system they keep trying
to replace and just won't go away is the M2 Browning, there are guns that were built in WWII
that are still in the inventory. in 2002 I was at a Penn. National guard armory that still had some of the
older 105's one Breach ring I saw had a WWII date, the barrel was probably replaced a couple of times since
it was originally built but was still in secondary service.
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline GGaskill

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Re: retiring a tube
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2010, 09:45:02 PM »
It would be interesting to see what Gibbon had to say about life of an artillery barrel.  I have seen published statements that 500 rounds was the limit for bronze barrels because they eroded too much by then for practical use.  Supposedly, no Napoleon was ever burst but retirement after 500 shots would probably prevent enough fatigue to cause bursting.

The most interesting subject would be the 3" wrought iron rifle as it would be a reasonably good model for a modern-made steel barrel of Civil War proportions.

As far as retiring a modern-made steel barrel, I think it would be more important to retire because of poor design than excessive use.
GG
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Offline Victor3

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Re: retiring a tube
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2010, 03:40:39 AM »
 It would be impossible to come up with even a rough 'rule of thumb' for the variety of barrels (material, bore size, construction, etc.) that are made. The fact that many of us use a variety of projectiles, blanks, charge weights and types of powder from the same tube further muddies the water.

 Blondie: "Every gun makes its own tune."


 
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline RocklockI

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Re: retiring a tube
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2010, 06:14:45 AM »
"When it's time to shoot ,SHOOT ,dont talk .
Blondie
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.