Cannon Report question

[justeric]

Can someone tell me what gives a cannon that low pitch, hit you in your chest, thunderous boon?   I have seen small  bore cannons that sound more like a musket then a cannon.  On the other end, I’ve seen full size mortars that are loud but don’t sound like cannons. 

I suspect the answer will come down creating a balance between bore diameter and bore length.  For a specific bore diameter, you will need a minimum bore length to produce enough compression to give a good boom?   Following this thought, the bigger the bore diameter, the longer the bore has to be to create enough compression.  If I’m on the right track, their has to be some hard and fast rules governing bore diameter to bore length to create a good boom.  Of course the bigger the bore diameter (as long as the bore length is proportional) the lower the pitch of the report. 

So tell me, when looking for a cannon barrel, are their any hard and fast rules I should know.  I’m looking for a cannon that sounds like a cannon, not a musket or a mortar.  As a frame of reference, I don’t need anything as thunderous as a full size cannon but more like an outdoor sporting event cannon. 

I’ve got my eye on a 2,25" Mountain Howitzer  LOA 16.437” Barrel 2.275” x 12” Powder chamber 1” x 3”  mostly because of the inside bore diameter.   If I’m reading it correctly, this cannon has a 12” inside bore that is 2.25” wide.  Will 12” be enough bore length for a 2.25” bore diameter to create enough compression for a low pitched, sounding like a cannon, thunderous, BOOOOOOOOOOOM? 

Thanks,
Eric

[Double D]

The boom is a by product of shooting.  If you just want a boom suggest you get a thunder mug. If you want a cannon, get a cannons take the boom you get.

 

[dan610324]

I guess that you get some difference in sound between a sub chambered howie and a full bore cannon with the same caliber

if you use fg or cannon grade would most probably also change the sound

but its just speculations

[oyvind]

The boom is a by product of shooting.  If you just want a boom suggest you get a thunder mug. If you want a cannon, get a cannons take the boom you get.

 

Hi
Thundermug.
I've tried many types of lengths and caliber,
reason is that I use them to salute.
most boom for real money, caliber 43mm and length
about 5-6 times the caliber.
I made those in sis2244 and follow the rule with wall thickness equal caliber.
90 grams 2fg and flour on top.
I have several 50mm but it is getting heavy to carry. they give good salut

mvh
Oyvind

[justeric]

If I did my math correctly, that cannon would have an inside bore diameter of 1.7 inches and an inside bore depth of 9 1/2 inches? 

I have considered a thundermug but don't those take a bunch more powder since to create the same compression as a longer bore length (cannon)?  I kind of like the idea of shooting something once in awhile also    Do thunder mugs sound like cannons though?

Thanks for all your responses!  Please keep em coming.
Eric

[GGaskill]

I don't think any kind of hocus pocus is going to make a two ounce charge sound like a two pound charge, especially if the two pounds is propelling a shot.

A bowling ball mortar makes a good boom with 6 ounces of Cannon grade when firing a ball but only a whoosh with no shot.

Firebuckeye, if you're still watching, how does your thundermug sound?

[justeric]

I did a little research on the cannon they use at the University of Maryland Football games.  This thing rocks the stadium.  It's a Lyle gun and here's some information I found on the Lyle gun:
"COSTON" LIFE SAVING GUN
Early 20th century USN Lyle gun marked: "Coston Signal Co Cannon N.Y USA" Gun is 40" long, barrel is 30 1/2" with 2 1/2" bore. Carriage is 13 1/2" high, length 29 1/2", 11" wide. Has 7 elevation settings.   Lyle gun could fire an eighteen pound bullet-shaped projectile about 300 yards on a full charge of 8 ounces of black powder.

I wonder how much powder they use at the football games.  In any event, the cannon only has a 2 1/2 inch bore and it sounds like a cannon.  The cannon I'm looking at has a 2.25 inch bore but is only 12 inches long (inside bore length).  Could I expect anything near the sound of the Lyle gun? 

[GGaskill]

One thing to keep in mind about a circumstance like this one is that the gun is fired in an enclosed area which traps the sound and will keep it echoing for an extended period of time.

There was a thread here in the last month or so discussing this subject and one of the ideas was to make the bore tapered more or less like an old cheerleader's megaphone so the blast is coupled to a larger mass of air.  The tapered bore would lessen the effectiveness as a projectile launcher but if your real goal is noise, it should be noisier.

Take a look at this thread for more info.

[brokenpole]

Justeric,

Don't put to much stock in that noise you hear from that gun at those football games.  Most of them use the stadium sound system to give you that effect you are hearing.  THey actually do the same thing at Columbus Blue Jacket Hockey games.  The gun is for the smoke, the sound system in the building does the rest.

My advice to you is to settle on something.  If it shoots it will having you giggling like a school girl.  Don't believe me...ask my wife.  She has seen me do it.

If you decide you want or need something bigger than sell and trade up.  People sell stuff on here all the time so they can get more stuff.

If is an addiction after all.

[Double D]

A stadium cannon is not one to emulate...if you look around stadium cannons are a good source of accidents.  Massive over loads.  If all you want is loud noise go to Big R Farm store and buy a propane cannon.  We don't do propane cannons on this board

[Artilleryman]

It is my belief that you can't make a small gun sound like a big one, and that you shouldn't try to.  I hope that whatever gun you acquire that the sound will be satisfying.  If not sell it or trade it for another gun that hopefully will produce the sound that you like.  Maybe go to an artillery shoot and listen to the different guns and decide that way.  I started with a .58 cal. foot long bronze gun and progressed over the years to a 12 pdr. Iron Napoleon, and I enjoyed every one of them.   Good luck.

[gulfcoastblackpowder]

Anything in the 2.25" range will probably be quite suitable for producing a nice boom.  I shoot my 1.5" Hern on docks pretty often, and we've knocked wood off the docks at times.  I've been around a 2.25" howitzer when it shook a heavy 1" thick plaster off a garbage can too.  I've also gotten echos off of bridges that were miles away.  Getting a good boom out of these is very possible, but the environment it's in will greatly effect it.  My crew has even made people think we were shooting cannon when all we had with us were a couple of rifles.  Don't worry about the boom, though.  You'll get good sound out of a decent sized cannon, and the boom is only part of the fun.

If you're really concerned with the report, look at the link to the other thread where I went into horn theory and do some experimenting, because I havent', and I don't know that anyone has (in a war type situation, you typically want to minimize smoke and noise to avoid giving away your location, though that applies more to modern warfare than BP cannon, so it's possible someone did some research to minimize the noise, which could be applied toward maximizing it.  If anyone did do any such research, I would have expected to hear about it on this forum, given the amount of research these guys do, and I haven't, though that doesn't mean it was never done).

[Cat Whisperer]

The low frequencies travel well -  hence the deep notes of steam whistles used on boats for fog horns.

I think the larger the diameter of the bore the lower the tone of the mortar/cannon.