Author Topic: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations  (Read 2567 times)

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Offline Sourdough

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I read this today in the Fairbanks Daily News Miner, and screamed.  They (the paper) had gotten it from somewhere else and do not have it on their web site.  I finally located it and thought many of you guys would be interested in reading this article.  In 10 to 15 years hope your kids and grandkids don't stray far from the door.  They are extreamely intelligent and adaptive animals.  Also rather aggresive, and a voracious preditors.  They also often adopt the habit of only eating hot meals.  Meaning once they make a kill, and eat their fill, they don't return.  Instead they look for fresh warm meat.  That makes it hard to trap and poison them.  What do they eat?  Anything they can bring down.

http://www.thesunnews.com/2010/07/20/1595570/petition-seeks-to-have-wolves.html
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Offline Cheesehead

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Offline billy_56081

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I would like to see them release some wolves in California. San Fransisco would be my place of choice.
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Offline nodlenor

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Billy I would add NYC, Chicago, & D. C. to the list.
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Offline Brett

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Eastern Massachusetts including Cape Cod already is having problems with coyotes so now the 'experts' want to ad their bigger meaner cousins to the party.   Great idea.
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Offline Sourdough

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Rermember what happened in Chignik this spring.  We lost a very much admired and beloved teacher.  They pulled her down twice, and she was able to beat them off.  Each time she attempted to flee.  The third time they kept her down.  Villagers found her remains.  Some people want to return these preditors just so they can hear them howl.  

When you are out alone and they start howling, it gets errie.  After a few minutes other packs start answering back.  Then you realize you are surrounded.  There are packs in all directions, and you can not tell how far or near any of them are.  Your imagination runs wild if you are not careful.  You know the packs range from five to thirty animals.  It does not matter wheather you are sleeping in a nest under a spruce tree, in a tent, or in a cabin, you will not sleep good or sound that night.
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Offline Siskiyou

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The same not heads have been wanting to bring the griz back to California.  Guess I need a .338 Winchester as my next deer rifle.

If they want to return these critters to CA put them in Golden Gate, L.A. City parks.
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Offline Sourdough

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What people do not understand is they do not play well with people.  There was a reason our forefathers got rid of the wolf through out the lower 48 states.  Wolves, Cougers, and Grizzlies, do not get along well with people.  They have a habit of wanting to eat them, especially kids and women.  We here in Alaska know that.  We try and keep the wolf populations down, and keep them out in the unpopulated areas.  And unlike the lower 48, we have game populations here to support them out in the bush.  

Say they turn a bunch loose in Vermont/New Hampshire area.  In a few years they will kill off the deer in the area and will leave that area looking for more food.  They will move into agricultural areas where they can find cows, sheep, and horses.  They will find women tending their gardens, or looking after their flowers.  Kids playing in the back yard will be an easy hit and run, taking them with them to an isolated place for a snack.  Then one day they will find a gold mine, a bunch of kids waiting for the school bus.

I predicted the decline of the Elk and Deer herds in Montana and Wyoming when they released the wolves in Yellowstone.  This will affect the entire Eastern States not just New England.  With wolves coming down from Canada into Michigan and Minnasoto, wolves turned loose in New England, The Great Plains, California, and the South West, in 20 years they will be through out the entire country.  Just think of them in your back yard.

I've seen them take down a full grown healthy Bull Moose, believe me any human they decide to go after will be dinner.  If they make these releases as planned it's coming, but just think of the howls you can hear.  Is it worth it?

The Governor of Utah refused to let the US Fish and Wildlife Service release Wolves in Utah.  He flat said he did not want preditors released in his state.  The people in the state was against it and the project got dropped.  So if enough noise is made it can be stopped.  
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
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Offline AtlLaw

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What people do not understand is they do not play well with people.

Oh common now!   You're over reacting!    ::)
I've seen the documentaries that prove wolves and other preditors are much maligned by old wives tails!  Why I'll bet they would even share their kills with human hunters!  And there have been stories of children being raised with wolves!   :o  Heck!  Walt Disney even did a movie about it!  And those cute bears dancing around...  :)  Heck, we ought to introduce grizzlies to those areas also!   You know, restore the circle of life sorta stuff...
Yup... i believe that....  ::)
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Offline crustylicious

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Red Wolves are being reintroduced in North Carolina

http://www.outer-banks.com/alligator-river/redwolf.html
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Offline a4beltfed2000

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2010, 04:32:47 PM »
Guys, I can tell you that healthy wolves do not attack humans. Every recorded wolf attack has been by a elder or diseased wolf. Wolves will eat something that has been dead above catching live prey. It requires less energy and only 10% of the hunts are successful.
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Offline a4beltfed2000

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2010, 04:37:42 PM »
Here is my daughter helping care of some of the residents. I have lived with wolves for years and we have NEVER had a issue. I have personally been around 50+wolves at a time and was never concerned....
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Offline a4beltfed2000

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2010, 04:43:21 PM »
and yes we are lincensed for the wolves by the County/ State USDA and the DNR
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Offline beerbelly

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2010, 05:40:31 PM »
You likely, sooner or later will end up like the bear dude! Wolf scat! Happy trails.
                           Beerbelly                   

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2010, 05:50:48 PM »
I'd like to see the lefties reaction when old Lobo kills thier dogs. Up north here they gut shoot them and leave em run off to die. Wolves are not pets and those who keep em as such are gambling with one of nature alpha killing machines.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2010, 10:08:37 PM »
Maybe your hand raised pets are that way.  But in the wild they are not like that.  After several human babies and small children were killed by pet Wolves and Wolf Hybrids, the state of Alaska has outlawed the keeping of Wolf, and Wolf Hybrids here in Alaska.  Don't know where you get your disinformation, but it shows you don't know anything about wolves in Alaska.  And you don't read our news papers, or talk to our state biologist.

Those were healthy wolves that killed and ate the teacher in Chignik this spring.  They were shot and her DNA was found during the necropsy.  It was a healthy wolf pack that killed and ate the cross country skier out side of Fairbanks a few years back.  It was a lactating female that attacked and bite a woman five years ago at the Artic Circle pull out, and kept her inside the outhouse for several hours till another car drove into the parking lot.  A day later a healthy male attacked a bicyclist on the highway about a mile from the same parking lot.  The wolves I shot trying to kill my neighbors dog two years ago were healthy as well.  This pack had discovered chained dogs were easy pray.  They were taking them right here in a subdivision full of homes.  I've had a pack of five show up at my cabin, and try the front door.  Then go out where a musher had bedded his dog team.  They marked the area, then started rolling in the hay.  Then they all laid down and watched the front door.  I pulled a rag out of a hole between two logs and shot three of the five with a shotgun.  

I've followed wolf packs and watched them from atop the hills.  I've seen where they pass cold meat (winter kill Moose and Caribou) lying on the ground, and they don't give it a second look.  They passed skinned Martin and Lynx Carcuses, and baited cubbies.  Yet within the hour they go run down a healthy Caribou.  They eat their fill and leave.  Don't bother setting traps around that Caribou.  All you will get is Coyotes, Foxes, and Ravens.  They will not come back that way for two weeks or so.  When they do come back into that area, they will not touch that Caribou.  This has been my observations of the Wolves between the Wood and Totatlanika River area of the Alaska Range.  Some trapper friends tell me they are able to trap wolves off Caribou and Moose carcuses up in the 40 mile country.  I've also heard the same thing from down in the Talkeetnas, and the Chugach range.  Up in the White Mountains I have thrown out chunks of meat from other trapped animals around a series of traps.  I've then had wolves come in and one, two, or three will step in traps, then the rest will scatter.  If I've done my job right I will catch the entire pack in the snares I have in the brush around the area.  But the Wolves I hunt in the Alaska Range do not eat cold meat, period.  Maybe they have been educated by trappers before I came up here, or maybe it's instinct, but they will pass by cold meat.  They only eat fresh kills.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2010, 10:33:04 PM »
Also after the diseased wolf dibalco made during the yellowstone release, where US Fish and Wildlife got some diseased animals from Canada.  I have a feeling they will use Alaska Wolves for any future relocations.  The Alaska Gray Wolf is bigger and heartier than the Wolves down south in Canada.

I also forgot to mention that every two ro three years we have incidents in the villages where Wolves come into the village and attack kids.  The villagers either beat them off or shoot them.  And yes it does make the papers, and the state biologist investigate.  Yet some people still say there is no records of wolves attacking people.  The records are there, all you have to do is look.  But then that does not fit the wolf lovers aganda.

They did turn a bunch of Red Wolves loose in Tennessee, Kentucky, and a few other locations many years ago.  Red Wolves are the smallest member of the Wolf family.  It has now been discovered that they are cross breeding with Coyotes.  I was reading in one of the Preditor Magazines last year where these hybrids are bigger and far more aggressive than the Coyotes.    One or two animals are capable of bringing down a Whitetail.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline magooch

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2010, 02:40:21 AM »
Who the heck needs wolves; I've been attacked by pit bulls, hound dogs and a stray lab, or two when I've been out riding my bike.  I even had a little cat chase me down the street.  I never did figure out what it planned to do if it caught me.

Anyway, I agree with those who want to introduce wolves and other such preditors into the halls of our law makers.  Let the experiments begin with those who make the decisions.  There's plenty of warm meat there, even if it is putrified a bit.
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Offline lakota

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2010, 06:45:59 AM »
Good. Maybe the wolf packs will bring the liberal herd back into check.
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Offline Spirithawk

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2010, 08:08:19 AM »
Of course wild animals are safe. Forget Walt Disney and cartoons, just look at that guy that proved he could live with Grizzlies. He did too!!!! Right up untill the time they ate him and his girlfriend! People try to give wild animals tame animal trates and it never, ever, everrrrr works that way. Simple fact of nature. By trying to do so you put both human lives and the lives of the animals themselves in jeopardy needlessly.  It makes no sense to me to increase the number of animals while decreasing their habitat. That's a formula for disaster in itself. To otherwise introduce them into areas you know they'll cause problems for all involved is iresponsible and flat out idiotic. As far as wolves go, don't we have enough in Washington?

Offline wreckhog

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2010, 08:36:44 AM »
Deer have killed more people in the US than wolves ever have. So have bathtubs. Life is not without risk.

Offline Spirithawk

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2010, 08:56:47 AM »
Yes, but do you really want to court those risk needlessly? Introducing wolves into areas that you know beforehand will cause problems doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Man has this strange idea that he knows better than Nature. Nature usually proves otherwise.

Offline Sourdough

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2010, 10:07:38 AM »
At first there will be no problems.  Wild food will be abundent, and the area of release will be isolated.  But as the years go by the numbers will increase and the young will break off looking for their own territory.  When the area is saturated, they will start moving into human populated areas and then the problems will come.  Farm animals, dogs, and cats, will be easy pray.  Then the packs will become bolder and they will start roaming the streets of subdivisions at night looking for dogs and cats.  Sooner or later they are going to run into a human that they will take for pray.  Be it an elderly person, a small woman (like the teacher in Chignik), or a kid (like in McGrath), and the problems will escallate.

The old time Wolfers knew what they were doing.  Too bad we can not learn from history.  Yes Deer are responsiable for more deaths than wolves in the US.  Because our forefathers had the wisdom to remove the large preditors from the areas of human habitation.  It's also not the Deer's fault people can't drive cars sensibly. 

Down in Southeastern Alaska the Brown Bears associate gun shots with a free meal, and come running to the sound of the shot.  At first it was the gut pile.  Then the bears learned if they got there fast enough, they could run the hunter off and get the whole deer.  Wait till wolves start associating car crashes with a free meal.

Just think, Southern California.  Today a little ol Wino, tomorrow a van crashes and rolls off the freeway into a brushy area, free lunch, just grab it and go.

One last thing.  In the two previously mentioned instances where the wolves killed and ate their victums.  The victums heads were not found at the kill site.  The wolves had carried them off to another location for later consumption.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2010, 10:29:44 AM »
Back in the late 80s the wife and I moved to Eagle River, Alaska.  We moved into a new subdivision up on the side of a mountain.  This new housing area was butted right up against Chugach State Park.  Wolves and Bears along with other wildlife are abundent in the Park.  At first as people moved in I heard complaints of House Cats coming up missing.  Then Dogs started coming up missing.

One night when there was a full moon the wife and I was sitting on the front porch just looking at the stars.    Down the street came a pack of four wolves.  They would stop at each driveway and one wolf would run up the drive and check it out.  As they approached our drive, our little Schnauzer started growling.  Here they came up our drive, all four.  I fired my pistol into a tree beside the drive and they scattered in panic.  The last we saw of them they came back togeather up the street.  They turned and went back into the park.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline jlwilliams

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2010, 10:59:27 AM »
  A generation ago, if you heard about a coyote attacking a human the story was probably either not true or there was a mother protecting cubs.  They just never attacked people.  (People are dangerous, don't eat them.)  Now they have learned to live off of our leavings.  Now we are a source of food, albeit indirectly.  Now, you have confirmed reports from all over the country of coyotes attempting to grab small humans ( that's right, they go for the easy ones....kids).  Google up coyote atacks and you will find plenty of kids bitten and some draged a short distance.  It's just a matter of time before a kid is dragged away from a playground in the suburbs and killed.  Think I'm being alarmist?  I don't.  Coyotes are losing the all importand fear of man.  That makes them dangerous.

  Domestic dogs attack people, because they aren't afraid of man the same way a wild animal is.  How many people are attacked, even killed, every year by domestic dogs that are either gone feral or just running in a pack?  More than one or two.  With all due respect to the poster who raises wolves; the idea that wolves are no more dangerous than any other dog doesn't make me feel much better.  A pack of 100+ pound dogs running wild isn't good news.  Maybe you feel comfortable with them in your home, like I feel comfortable with my dog in my home.  Nonetheless, I don't endorse the idea of putting wild dogs loose.  Call them German Shepherds or call them Wolves, it's a large, smart predator. 

  Wolves re-introduced into an area are not the same as wolves that roamed the same area when it was a frontier.  Men aren't always armed and are generally less dangerous than before.  Given a short time they will be dumpster diving and eating loose pets, just like coyotes.  Given more time they will go from an animal with no reliable record of maneating to an animal that eats hikers.

  Releasing Wolves into the wild.  I've heard dumber ideas, I just can't recall any of them at the moment. ::)
 

Offline wreckhog

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2010, 11:22:28 AM »
I am not too sure about where you live, but by me, we kill cats and dogs we see without a collar. Consequently, the cat population is way down. In fact, I am far more likely to shoot a cat than a fox or a skunk. If wolves became pests, they would get the same treatment.

Offline Spirithawk

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2010, 12:41:23 PM »
I am not too sure about where you live, but by me, we kill cats and dogs we see without a collar. Consequently, the cat population is way down. In fact, I am far more likely to shoot a cat than a fox or a skunk. If wolves became pests, they would get the same treatment.

I don't blame you but what sucks is that you most likely would be heavily fined and maybe even face jail time for doing so. Here in Missouri it's against the law to shoot a stray dog or cat, let alone a Federaly protected species.  I tend to think that if any area needed more of a resident species then said species already there would multiply on it's own. If not then there is a very good reason why not and medling to make it otherwise is not a particularly smart thing to do. But then I'm just a life long outdoorsman, born and raised in the country, so what do I know as oposed to some guy sitting behind a desk watching Disney on a flat screen who's idea of wild is the local park?  ::)

Offline Brett

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2010, 12:52:43 PM »
Guys, I can tell you that healthy wolves do not attack humans. Every recorded wolf attack has been by a elder or diseased wolf. Wolves will eat something that has been dead above catching live prey. It requires less energy and only 10% of the hunts are successful.

I'm sure that your healthy, well fed wolves were no problem at all. You could probably put a baby goat in the pen with your wolves and they wouldn't bother with it.   Why?... because they don't have to, their human caretakers provide everything they need.  However, a pack wolves in the wild that is subject to the effects of old age, disease, and possibly of the lack of abundant natural prey is a whole different animal.   Don't feed your captive wolves for a week or so then send your daughter in to pet them and see what happens.   
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2010, 10:30:07 AM »
Guys, I can tell you that healthy wolves do not attack humans. Every recorded wolf attack has been by a elder or diseased wolf. Wolves will eat something that has been dead above catching live prey. It requires less energy and only 10% of the hunts are successful.

I'm sure that your healthy, well fed wolves were no problem at all. You could probably put a baby goat in the pen with your wolves and they wouldn't bother with it.   Why?... because they don't have to, their human caretakers provide everything they need.  However, a pack wolves in the wild that is subject to the effects of old age, disease, and possibly of the lack of abundant natural prey is a whole different animal.   Don't feed your captive wolves for a week or so then send your daughter in to pet them and see what happens.   

+1
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline powderman

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Re: Wolves being returned to New England, California, and other locations
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2010, 12:49:35 PM »
Too bad they can't be trapped and turned loose in the gang neighborhoods accross America. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
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