Making KNO3 without Feces and Urine (LOL!)

[flmason]

Hi All,
   Anyone know of a DIY process for making saltpetre without the traditional use of feces and urine?

Granted that was the traditional process, but have to admit, unless it was a real SHTF situation, or I lived somewhere is enough space (like a farm) I'm not inclined to try it.

So, was wondering if there's some what to create KNO3 effectively that's a little more hygenic but equally as accessible?

[goodshot]

Some brands of stump remover are almost pure saltpeter if I am not mistaken.
Best wishes,
 

[blind ear]

With the right kind of stump remover you don't need saltpeter. (amonium nitrate soaked with diesel)

[flmason]

With the right kind of stump remover you don't need saltpeter. (amonium nitrate soaked with diesel)

ANFO for a firearm propellant? LOL! Ouch that could hurt, LOL!

Anyway, the idea was to be able to make black powder from scratch for flintlocks and C&B revolvers. Charcoal is easy. Sulphur and KNO3 are a little harder to fabricate from scratch.

Was hoping for a method that would work either "in the woods" or at most with grocery store items.

Stump remover is essentially the same as saying "buy it" vrs. "fabricate it".

[Victor3]

 I've looked into it and found that to scale down how they produce it commercially would involve a lot of equipment. The easiest way to get some (without buying) would be to collect it in limestone caves where it's crystallized on the walls, but that aint a likely proposition. Unfortunately, the pee/poo method is probably the only viable way the average joe can make it at home.

 The good news is, making powerful BP seems really easy; take a look at how Kirk made a bamboobazooka and powder to defeat his enemy, from stuff just layin' around...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDD3-2_wLR8&feature=related

 Here's a recent thread about home-made BP if you're interested...

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,210550.0.html

[tacklebury]

Hi All,
  Anyone know of a DIY process for making saltpetre without the traditional use of feces and urine?
Granted that was the traditional process, but have to admit, unless it was a real SHTF situation, or I lived somewhere is enough space (like a farm) I'm not inclined to try it.
So, was wondering if there's some what to create KNO3 effectively that's a little more hygenic but equally as accessible?

You can make urea nitrate in the same manner you made salt crystals in school experiments, or at least I did.  Just take a large deep container and hang strings off sticks down into the fluid until they nearly touch the bottom.  Leave a small space in between strings and once the crystals are built up on the strings, pull them out, let them dry and crush them down using a mill or stone.    I've also researched, although not tried, using chicken feces on concrete pads will usually form crystals on the concrete.  It works best when not subjected to rain and water disruption and I've read that chicken and bat are the two fastest producers followed by pigs.  

*edit*  Sorry, didn't catch the without urine and feces.  lol 

[don heath]

Nope....Unless you have a handy bat cave or convienient salt peter spring. The rural black folk rely almost entirely on deposits built up in caves by dassie (rock rabit) urine and pellets or from two natural springs in the Zambezi valley that leave deposits of almost pure salt peter. I live 800km away from the nearest such spring but I have met many peasants who got their 'white powder' from there. Have even run into Herero's in Namibia more than 3000km from the nearest spring who have traded for it.

Funnily enough we have several caves with massive deposits of bat poop much closer but as they are 'bewitched' caves, nobody will mine the stuff

[vacek]

Most natural sources of nitrate comes from either lightening (nitrogen gas 70-78% oof the air you breath is converted to nitrate NO3- by the heat), or by microorganisms.  Legumes host a bacteria that converts Nitrogen gas to amines which into turn end up as amino acids then proteins.  The bacteria get their energy from the legume and in turn when they die the proteins decompose leaving the nitrate for the legume to us.  Other bacteria do it without a host plant.  Regardless, these 3 mechanisms of nitrogen fixation (conversion of N2 to mineral N) doesn't result in high enough concentrations to recover for making salt peter.  Hence the food chain concentrates the nitrogen and eds up in a concentrated for in waste.

The green revolution took place when agriculture learned how to irrigate at high efficiency along with learning how to industrially convert N2 to anhydrous ammonia which is 82% Nitrogen.  This is the primary source of nitrates today.  Essentially once fertilizer nitrogen usually in the ammonia or urea form are added to the soil, the ammonia/urea is converted by specialized bacteria to nitrate.

A possibility is to take ammonia in some form and mix it in with soil.  This will initially kill off the microbes but they will recover.  Keep the soil moist but not saturated and keep mixed as the above process (called nitrification) needs oxygen.  Also the process creates acidity so you might have to add some limestone to your soil if it is already neutral or acidic.  Within a few weeks the ammonia will be largely converted to nitrate which can then be leached.  I don't know if this has ever been tried as again the amount of fertilizer added to a small volume of soil would be very high in order to get a significant amount of nitrate.

[clodbuster]

The three junior geeks on "Myth Busters" tried to copy Captain Kirk of the starship Enterprise, method of making gunpowder from natural ingredients found on some alien planet. Short version--it didn't work/  Best they could get was a slightly accelerated burn.  Most people underestimate the difficulty and danger of making black
powder.  I looked into the process and it ain't worth it.  Stock up ahead.  BP stores well.

[blind ear]

The final cooking process for BP seems to be a balance between "it worked" and "it blew up". That is the step that gets home cooks. eddie

[vacek]

Eddie,

It wouldn't surprise me if most posters on this thread made some BP at some point in our lives from store bought chemicals.  I had a chemistry set when I was a kid (12-15 yrs) and I know my pals and I made up some.  Probably not smart, but we did make up a few small batches.  Our mileage wasn't great as our source of charcoal was very good and we had a hard time getting it thoroughly mixed.  However, it worked in time.  But it was easy to walk down t the corner drug an get salt petre and sulfur.  It is probably a good thing tht we didn't know you could also buy activated charcoal.  That would have made it a lot easier.  We did it all including unravelling  a lot of BlackCats for that powder to make our home-made grenades out of empty CO2 cartridges, etc.  We survied our youthful experieces.