Author Topic: M6 Scout  (Read 12306 times)

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Offline Lt Smoke

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M6 Scout
« on: July 23, 2010, 03:20:04 AM »
I just picked up an M6 Scout, .22lr/.410. Does any one have any experience with this weapon? I am going to use it as a "just in case" weapon. I am building a scope mount for it that will allow me ro still use the iron sights (I have found out that iron sights have a shelf life and after several years they get fuzzy). Thanks.

Smoke
There allways will be hard things in your life. The only sad thing you will ever face is giving up.

Offline darkgael

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2010, 02:28:12 PM »
I have had one for years. It's a great little gun. Easy to keep in a car or truck or backpack. Great "walk in the woods" gun. A buddy of mine has the .22 Hornet/.410 version.
I'm very surprised that you were even able to find one. They are hard to come by.
Springfield Armory makes a scope base for it but it is quite expensive. You can copy it easy enough.
Where did you find the gun?
Pete

Offline Lt Smoke

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2010, 03:03:09 PM »
I had been looking for one for several years now. I have a friend who has a gun shop and I use his FFL. I had found a Virginian Dragoon .44mag (unfired, fixed sights, stainless, 6" bbl) when I went to get the revolver he had just taken the M6 in on consignment. I asked him how much he needed for it and he replied $175.00. The rest is history.

The scope mounts are quite spendy. We had made up some Uzi bases and had some left over picatinny shaped stock. I think it will work out well.

There allways will be hard things in your life. The only sad thing you will ever face is giving up.

Offline darkgael

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2010, 05:33:08 PM »
Good thing that you got then; it would not have lasted long.
Pete

Offline dougk

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2010, 06:29:21 PM »
that was a great price...

Please let us know how it shoots.

Offline searlock

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2010, 05:53:24 AM »
i have two of them. bought them new years ago. the only problem i had with them is the extractror spring was too strong and would jam the 410 shell when closing the weapon. i drove the pin out that holds the spring in and cut a coil. had to do it again till i got it right. both are 22lr and are great weapons. the 5 pellet OOO buck is great in the 410. wish i had got one in the 22 hornet.

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2010, 08:24:39 PM »
Mine is a grouse killin' machine. Wouldn't trade it for the world. (Stainless, .22/.410)

Offline Lt Smoke

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2010, 04:17:10 PM »
Range/scope base report.

Mounted an extended eye relief 2.5 x scope on the M6 and grabbed some .22 lr ammo and a good supply of .410 ammo and rode out to the back pasture. At 50 yards with the scope it shot one little ragged hole. with .22 lr Federal 36g hp. Took off the scope and shot irons. It shot about 12" high at 25 yards and about 10 at 50.

Switching to .410 ammo it had a tendency to shoot everything low. With some hold over I got minute of deer with 000 and 0000 buck. at 50 yards. Slugs did a good job but shot low as well giving 3.5" groups at 50 yards. 4 shot gave a sparse pattern while 6 and 8 shot placed an escapable pattern. It gave patterns that will fill the dutch oven.

Put a red dot on it and it shot well with that too. All in all I am pleased with the little guy. It is going to ride in my truck and when needed I will not hesitate to bring him out to play.

When I figure out how to post some photos I will give you a look at the scope mount. It turned out real slick.

Thanks

Smoke
There allways will be hard things in your life. The only sad thing you will ever face is giving up.

Offline darkgael

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2010, 12:53:37 AM »
LT: Of course each firearm has its own personality......my own M6 shoots the little .410 slug right to POA at 50 feet using the little aperture. I haven't tried it farther than that.......maybe today I will since you've got me thinking.
Pete

Offline Lt Smoke

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2010, 01:33:58 AM »
I should add that the smaller shot was fired from 25 tards not 50. A friend of mine comented this was the uglyest gun he had ever seen. He helped in the test shoot. He is on the hunt for a twin ugly. I used Remington slugs, Federal 000 and 4 buckshot. The smaller shot was Federal and Estate. .22lr was Federal 36g hp and Remington 36g hp. All shots were from a bench rest, no wind and about 90 degrees. Hope this helps.

Lt. Smoke
There allways will be hard things in your life. The only sad thing you will ever face is giving up.

Offline dougk

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2010, 03:15:27 AM »
Smoke

Looks like you got a great deal...

I cant wait for the pictures.

Doug

Offline Timmerton

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2012, 01:18:55 PM »
Hi everyone.  I signed up for this forum just so I could reply to this thread, although I realize it is a bit old.  My question is primarily for Lt. Smoke, but anybody else who may be able to help, please do!

I recently purchased a stainless steel beauty of an M6 Scout from gunbroker in 22LR.  I have been searching high and low for a factory scope mount for this but it is virtually impossible.  I'm curious what you did to make your own mount.  Were you able to make one that still let you use the iron sights?  Anything you could tell me about what you did would be very much appreciated.  I haven't taken mine from the dealer yet since I'm waiting on another pistol to come in but I'm really excited to get this to the range and test it out.

Offline darkgael

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2012, 02:29:49 AM »
Timmerton: Try this link. Maybe he still has them.
http://www.bodermansports.com/Firearms/Springfield_Armory/M6_Scout/m6_scout.html

Pete

Offline Timmerton

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2012, 07:51:05 AM »
Thanks, I sent them an email.  I think I recall emailing them earlier when I was looking to purchase the Scout, but didn't hear back.  Crossing my fingers!

Offline Timmerton

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2012, 01:04:23 PM »
Probably is not a good sign that their website has not been updated since 2007.

Offline darkgael

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2012, 01:06:48 AM »
Since 2007?
Yipe.

Offline weeble

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2012, 12:36:07 PM »
Timmerton,
I used a homemade scope mount on mine some years back.  I cut mine from solid...it helps to have access to a machine shop!  If you don't then it should be possible to cobble one from off the shelf parts.  The mounting surface on the M6 is flat, so you can buy a piece of flat-bottomed Weaver rail to start.  I don't know which Weaver part number off the top of my head, but many guns have a flat mounting surface (the Marlin 39 comes to mind).  It will be necessary to drill holes in the rail that will match up with the screw holes in the M6.  This can be done on a drill press or by hand if you're careful.  The screw holes are metric, M4x0.7 (I think). 
Not to stray off topic, but I used one of the small Simmons 22 scopes on mine.  Although a vast improvment over the iron sights (which are terrible, IMO), I found the scope made the gun awkward and hard to carry.  I abandoned the scope after a few hikes.  I nearly abandoned the gun, too, since my aging eyes just can't seem to cope with the factory sights anymore.  Then a couple of years ago I picked up a Burris Fastfire mini red-dot.  Fitting it to the M6 required chopping off the rear sight boss and making a custom mouting plate.  Altering the gun like this may not have been the best idea, given how much they are selling for these days, but I think it was the best thing I've ever done to it.  It is really easy to hit with now.
Link to pic:  http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz339/weeble42/IMGP2060.jpg

Offline dougk

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2012, 02:49:06 PM »
Hi Weeble,
thanks for the interesting and informative post.  Welcome to GBO.

Also that is a very interesting mount.  Thanks for sharing.

Doug

Offline weeble

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2012, 08:26:47 AM »
Thanks for the welcome, Doug.  I have been a member for years but obviously don't post much.


I felt compelled to show the red dot setup for a couple of reasons.  First, I've not seen it done in quite the same way before.  Second, the more I use it the more convinced I am that this is the best way to set up an M-6. 


Initially, I was just looking for an alternative to using a scope...one that didn't add weight or make the gun hard to carry in the hand.  I believe that a rifle in a pack is useless;  by the time you get it out your opportunity has been missed.  As a result, I end up carrying in the hand most of the time and a scope makes that difficult.  Iron sights are the obvious solution, and I did tinker with that for a while.  Never got to a solution that I was happy with, though.


I decided to try the Burris after seeing one at the range.  I just couldn't believe how small it was.  After mounting it up, I was very pleased with the fit.  You don't notice the extra ounces, and it carries just like it did with irons.  In the field, though, I have been surprised by other advantages that I never thought of.  The unlimited eye relief makes it very easy to get a sight picture no matter what you're wearing (backpack, etc.).  It is also more usable in low light and shadows than the (admittedly cheap) scope I had been using.  I was initially concerned about the lack of magnification, but it hasn't been a problem in practice.  The one negative so far has been the need to feed it a new battery every year.  I don't seem to get the life out of them that Burris claims.


In short, I can't imagine having a Scout set up any other way now.  I still think the gun has some limitations, but it is a far more practical solution for me than ever before.


Cheers,
Weeble


Offline Timmerton

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2012, 01:13:39 PM »
Hey Weeble!  I guess I am not receiving email notifications on this thread because I didn't see your responses.  That fastfire looks fantastic on the scout!  I actually have ordered the new Fastfire III for my Ruger MKIII for weight, aesthetic & performance reasons, though its still on backorder.

In the meantime, I've still been trying to figure out the scope base situation.  The closest thing I've found so far that I think will work is the Weaver base #50, which I ordered but have not received yet.  It has a flat bottom and the correct hole spacing.  Not sure if I will have to make any other mods to it though to make it work.  Just today I also ordered a 4x scope with mil dots that I thought would work well with the Scout.  http://amzn.com/B002KCZ61O  My thinking was that with the mil dots I can have better points of reference for ranges and also both chambers. 

Your Burris setup really intrigues me though.  I really like it.  What kind of ranges are you typically shooting at?  I assume you have it sighted in for the 22 but how much far off is it for the 410?  Great....now I am going to be thinking about this even more!  Oh btw, I went to Lowe's today to see what size of screws fit into the holes for the base and my conclusion was that they were 8-32, seemed like a perfect fit in their little testers.

Thanks very much for your detailed feedback.  It's really nice to see what other people are using on the Scouts besides these terrible iron sights.

Offline darkgael

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2012, 04:56:25 PM »
Screws. Double check that thread. It may be an 8-40 ,which is more commonly found, along with 6-48.

Offline Timmerton

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2012, 05:17:12 PM »
Screws. Double check that thread. It may be an 8-40 ,which is more commonly found, along with 6-48.

Will double check those, thanks.

Offline Timmerton

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2012, 05:54:25 PM »
Screws. Double check that thread. It may be an 8-40 ,which is more commonly found, along with 6-48.
Now that I think about it, I'm not exactly sure how to check that.  I didn't see all those sizes to check at Lowe's.  8-32 seemed to be a very good match, screwed in to their tester not too light or too hard.  I have a Weaver mount #54, which is a single short base.  The hole alignment matches perfectly to the Scout, however the holes and the supplied screws on the Weaver are a bit too small for the Scout.  So would that mean the screws on the Weaver are probably 6-48?.  When I get my new #50 Weaver I'll probably have to drill the holes slightly larger, same as I would have to do for the #54 if I wanted to use it. 

Offline Timmerton

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2012, 06:05:13 PM »
BTW, since I have been more of a rimfire guy up to this point, I posted this project up on the rimfire central forum.  My apologies if this is frowned upon, linking to another forum!  But I can't post everything everywhere... http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=438859 You'll be able to see my other side project on this gun, which is the 22 Hornet insert, which is why I will need a scope even more if the insert ends up not being useless.  I've had some major headaches with the machinist making these but I am hopeful about this last one I got.  Will be test firing this week.  If I could have three calibers in one compact package like this that I could accurately shoot, it would be a pretty neat accomplishment!

Offline weeble

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2012, 04:59:44 AM »
After reading the new posts last night, I checked my notes on the screw size.  M4 x 0.7.  I remember having to search for the right screws.  I have an assortment of the normal "gun" sizes (which you will NOT find at a hardware store) and none of them fit.   A place like Lowe's might not carry the metric stuff, but most any traditional hardware store like an Ace or Tru Value will.
 
For what it's worth, M4 is ever so slightly larger in diameter than #8, and 0.7 pitch works out to about 36.5 threads per inch.  A #8x36 would be a sloppy fit but may work in a pinch.  I wouldn't do it, though, since any store that carries #8x36 is likely to also carry M4x0.7.
 
Timmerton, I saw your post on RFC.  I've been curious about those inserts for some time, and I really enjoyed seeing some good pictures of one.  I'll be curious to learn how it works for you.  As for me, I'm running two loads through the Hornet.  One is a cast lead bullet of about 40 grains, moving at about 1200 fps.  This essentially duplicates .22LR.  The other is a jacketed soft point moving at 2700 fps.  With those two loads I feel that the gun is effective on everything from edible small game up through coyotes.  I've sighted in using the light load at 25 yards, which also puts it very close at 75 yards.  The heavy load has a noticably different trajectory, and I keep a small laminated card listing the corrections taped to the butt.  In the field, I've used the light load 100% of the time.  Even here in the high desert ranges are quite short on small game;  probably 30 yards or less.  Looking back on it after all these years, the .22LR version may be the better choice, as you can easily carry more ammo.  The Hornet can give you more punch when you need it, but so far I've never needed it.
 
I have mixed feelings about the usefulness of the shotgun.  Mine does not shoot to the same place as the rifle.  At 25 yards, slugs shoot about 18" high and right.  It's actually quite accurate with Remington slugs, but that much correction to the point of aim is hard to deal with.  It seems to do a little better with shot, but the darn thing is choked so tightly that you may as well use the rifle.  The pattern is consistent, just incredibly tight.  I don't think of the M6 as a wingshooting platform, but better suited to taking aimed shots at quail or grouse on the ground.  Honestly, I've become so frustrated trying to use the .410 for that that now I just head shoot them with the Hornet.  I've toyed with ideas to remedy this, like opening up the choke or regulating the barrels somehow.  Perhaps in another decade or so I'll do something about it!
 

Offline Timmerton

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2012, 12:14:22 PM »
After reading the new posts last night, I checked my notes on the screw size.  M4 x 0.7. 
Ahh thank you very much!  Now I just need to find some, drill the base holes larger, and hope that the screws I find go far enough into the countersink not to stick out above the base.  Somehow I doubt that though.  Weaver doesn't seem to simply employ a traditional countersink.  Its straight up and down at the top, which matches their screws.  That probably doesn't make any sense from my description.  I'm beginning to think the best option here is to just JB weld the hell out of the base to the gun. :-)

Interesting notes about your shooting.  I am hoping to be able to use all three of the cartridges, which is why I'm going with the compact mil dot scope.  If only the 22LR ended up being practical then I'd find a different gun.  But so far I've had pretty good success with the 410 Brenneke slugs.  Seems to shoot a little high at 50 yards but consistent and in line with the windage.  Haven't tried any shot on mine yet because I'm not sure if I can get away with it at the range I go to.  I could try shooting skeet, but I'll have to be in a really good mood to fail 100%.  You see all these guys out there who really know what they are doing, which makes me really hesitant to go out and practice with a "shotgun" that I believe most people would have a hard time shooting anything in the air with, let alone somebody who's never done it before.

Hopefully it takes me less than 10 years to work this out!

Offline Timmerton

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2012, 05:38:11 PM »
Ahh Weeble, you wonderful wizard you.  Thanks again for the screw size, the M4 x 7 worked perfectly.  I spent a good part of today going through many steps to get the mount on and finally got it.  That Weaver #50 mount was a good start, I just had to drill the mount holes larger, and countersink them a little deeper.  I couldn't find a screw that was anywhere near the right length, so I took some long ones and chopped them with a pair of wire strippers and then carefully filed them to the right length.  At the other end of the mount, I took the clue from a picture of the factory mount and added a set screw to it so it is slightly putting pressure on the barrel to prevent the mount from flexing down.  The unfortunate part about the Weaver mount I used is that it only has two slots for rings, one at each end.  But I can make it work, and actually I just found a one piece mount that only uses one weaver slot ala http://amzn.com/B002BLLFQE .  My only concern now is 1) Too much eye relief and 2) Will it be too high to get a good cheek weld?  Should find out soon!  The Scout is not the most natural weapon to fire even with just iron sights, so I don't suppose I should keep too high of expectations of ergonomics with the scope on.

So here's a picture of the craziness from today.  Used a tap for the first time today!  Baby steps...


Offline darkgael

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2012, 03:42:34 AM »
Quote
the screw size, the M4 x 7


Glad that you found the right screw. I shoulda thought about the metric size as the guns were made in Europe (by CZ, IIRC).
Where'd you get a tap for that?
Another option would have been to run an 8X40 tap in and rethread.
Pete

Offline Timmerton

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2012, 04:42:40 AM »
Where'd you get a tap for that? Another option would have been to run an 8X40 tap in and rethread.
Pete
Hey Pete, I didn't actually use a tap for that part.  I just tapped the scope base at the front to make some threads for the 8-32 set screw that I used.  The actual mounting holes I just enlarged with a regular drill bit, enough for the M4x7 screws to barely pass through.

Offline tacklebury

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Re: M6 Scout
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2012, 01:50:56 PM »
Seems like a perfect application for a 2x25 pistol scope, etc.
 
http://www.opticsplanet.net/bsa-2x20-pistolscopes-black-and-sil.html
Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.