Author Topic: Poachers  (Read 1562 times)

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Offline nw_hunter

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Poachers
« on: July 23, 2010, 10:15:06 AM »

What do you folks think about the severity of the fines imposed on these fellows?
I think they are out of line myself.

You would think they committed an Felony against a person for crying out loud!
I think the game laws in most states are getting out of hand, and lean toward revenue instead of prevention.
They state, money from fines is not the issue, but I disagree.

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Article published June 06, 2010
Poachers: Are you sure the coast is clear?

Six smallmouth bass poachers from Tennessee and Georgia have gone home from western Lake Erie minus three bass-boat rigs, two freezers, and more than $16,000 cash after a Port Clinton magistrate threw the book and the kitchen sink at them.

Overall their total loss for their fishing misdeeds - 30 counts of exceeding the daily creel limit of five bass per angler - cost them more than $48,000, given that two of the boat-motor-trailer rigs were valued at $8,000 each and one at $16,000, according to wildlife lawman Gino Barna.

"That's a pretty expensive fishing trip," added Barna, Lake Erie law enforcement supervisor for the Ohio Division of Wildlife.

The case has prompted Barna, newly installed at his post, to seek a change to state wildlife rules. He wants to require fishermen to keep fish "in the round," that is essentially whole, or filleted with the skin attached until the anglers reach their permanent residence.

"We want to be able to account for what was taken," the supervisor said about lawmen checking anglers freezers and coolers. It is common practice for out-of-state anglers in particular to bring freezers along on multiday fishing trips to stock up on Lake Erie's plenty.

Barna does not have a problem with that unless fishermen exceed the daily limit and then try to disguise their cheating by skinning and chunking fillets so they become nondescript. Among other things, undersized walleye, less than 15 inches and illegal to possess, could be hidden in frozen chunked fish.

"If you are on the water, the law says you have to have in-the-round fish," said Barna. But fishermen who take trailered rigs by ferry to the islands have been able to take home cleaned, skinless fillets or chunks, and there is no way to account for whether they have kept legal numbers.

"Mostly it's an island problem," said Barna. But he added that visiting anglers also take cottages on the lakefront during the spring jig-and-minnow walleye season then double-trip daily during their stay to stock up the same illegal way.

When announcing the arrests of the Georgia and Tennessee fishermen last month, Barna called theirs the worst case of overbagging he had ever seen. The men are charged with illegally taking at least 141 smallmouth over the limit during a recent stay on South Bass Island, which is what lawmen were able to prove. But they admitted to wildlife officers to taking more than that.

"They dumped fish on us when they knew we were looking," said Barna. Almost needless to say in these parts, smallies are highly prized for their sporting challenge and most fishermen keep them only rarely if at all, favoring walleye and yellow perch for the table.

The poachers quit fishing the day before the possession season closed for spawning. No largemouth or smallmouth bass may be kept from Lake Erie or its tributaries between May 1 and June 25. Any bass caught during closure must be immediately released.

The six men charged include Freelan C. Leffew, 66, of Soddy Daisy, Tenn., his son, Michael Todd Leffew, 38, of Hixson, Tenn.; Freddie Warren, 63, of Wildwood, Ga.; Charles H. Burkhart, 67, of Ringgold, Ga.; Samuel J. Carroll, 65, of Ringgold, and Herbert Samuel Stephens, 58, of Soddy Daisy.

All six entered guilty pleas on the charges in Ottawa County Municipal Court before Magistrate Lou Wargo. Wargo on Wednesday collectively sentenced them to $7,500 in fines, $1,740 in court costs, and $7,050 under the state fish and wildlife restitution law, which sets a $50 a bass penalty for exceeding the limit.

Once the Erie bass season resumes the limit will be five bass a day with a minimum keeper length of 14 inches.

The six men also collectively were sentenced to the maximum penalty of 30 days jail on each charge, 900 days total, the time suspended pending good behavior for three years. They also lost Ohio fishing privileges for three years, and may lose similar privileges elsewhere for they are being reported to the 33-state Wildlife Violator Compact.

Barna said the confiscated, frozen fish from the case are to be donated to Victory Soup Kitchen in Sandusky.

In the case, state wildlife officers were running a seasonal surveillance project on South Bass Island, watching over-limit angling and multiple trips, between April 25 and 30.

The six out-of-state anglers arrived on the island by ferry with their trailered bass boats and two freezers. Wildlife lawmen observed three boats making multiple daily trips, as many as three a day.

Arresting officers seized 155 bags of frozen, chunked fish and also 20 more bass that had not been frozen. The freezers were seized with the three boat rigs.

Some fishermen, on learning of the surveillance project, questioned why lawmen waited and did not swoop in sooner, thereby saving more bass from the poachers' coolers.

Barna explained he would have acted sooner, but it took some time to assemble a takedown team after surveillance confirmed the violations, and the poachers kept fishing while the team was collected, some officers being summoned from as far away as Allen County.

"We are very cognizant of not allowing waste of a resource," the supervisor said. It was not a matter of allowing the violations to continue merely to up the magnitude of the violations and potential subsequent fines and restitution.

"Money [from fines] is not the issue," Barna added. "I would have acted sooner if I could have. [The delay] was about manpower and logistics."

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Offline dukkillr

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2010, 10:25:51 AM »
Fantastic news.  Wish more judges would "throw the book" at poachers.  There is no accidental keeping of 150 too many fish...

Offline beerbelly

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2010, 10:45:30 AM »
I don't the government, any government should be able to confiscate my property. But they are damn good at it.
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Offline dukkillr

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2010, 10:47:42 AM »
So if you use a gun to rob a bank they shouldn't be able to take the gun when they catch you?  They shouldn't be able to order you to pay restitution?  All you have to do is bury the money some where and you're essentially judgment proof?

Offline DDZ

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2010, 11:07:25 AM »
I agree these guys got what they deserved. If there are not consequences for breaking the law, or if the consequences are small, many others would be doing it. Poaching is the same as stealing.
What if the fines for poaching walleye in lake Erie were small, and poachers reduced the walleye population down to the point where people were not chartering boats for walleye fishing. Walleye fishing is big business for many in lake Erie. Poaching would affect many people that make a living from fishermen coming to lake Erie?  

Here in Pa. the fines for poaching deer are being raised from a couple hundred dollars to a thousand dollars. Would $1000 be enough to deter poachers from poaching? Maybe not. Maybe it should be $5000. Its just like any other crime, if the consequences are small for getting caught. People will take the chance.
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Offline Spirithawk

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2010, 12:05:54 PM »
You need to realise that poachers are for the most part theives. I'm not talking about someone trying to feed their family. I'm talking about those that make a sport or a buiseness out of poaching. Remember folks, they are stealing the wildlife from you and me. A trophy animal killed by them is one you'll never get the chance at and it's you who are paying for that chance. It's an animal that will never see your freezer nor feed your family either. I think the penalty should fit the scale of the crime. Large scale, or repeated poachers, should pay the most. In dollars, losing privilages, confinscating the tools used to poach ie. weapons, trucks, atvs and such,  and jail time. All that being said though I think it's rediculous that they get long jail terms while I've heard of a reapeated murderer getting 12 years and was out in 8. That's not game laws needing revised. That's our whole dang judicial systom. I think DDZ said it well. Nobody fears light penalties for anything.

Offline Swampman

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2010, 12:18:41 PM »
Way too high.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Brett

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2010, 12:19:23 PM »
You takes your chances, and if you get caught you pay your dues.  They knew what they were doing was wrong.

Spirithawk, read the article again it says that their jail sentences were suspended pending 3 years probation.  So they will serve no jail time at all all long as they don't get into trouble in the next three years.  
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Offline Spirithawk

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2010, 12:26:52 PM »
You takes your chances, and if you get caught you pay your dues.  They knew what they were doing was wrong.

Spirithawk, read the article again it says that their jail sentences were suspended pending 3 years probation.  So they will serve no jail time at all all long as they don't get into trouble in the next three years.  

Yes, I know. I was refering to other cases I've heard of. I could have been clearer on that and should have. My bad guy. Some people can get caught red handed and still swear it's all a mistake. Never could understand that. Over all I think each case should be handled according to the circumstances when it comes to poaching. I firmly believe that if you don't want a person doing  it again though then you have to make the penalty one that they won't soon forget. As far as these guys the old saying, don't do the crime if you can't do the time kinda fits. As you say, they knew what they were doing and did it anyways. I can't feel sorry for them as a result. Theives are very low on my priority list for forgiveness.

Offline subdjoe

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2010, 12:36:09 PM »
If they had been a fish or two over, yeah, excessive.  Especially if they got back together after a day of fishing separately they met up and pooled their catch.  But close to 150 over? Sorry, throw the book at 'em.

Of course, here in CA we get abalone poachers who get caught with 100+ with a lot of undersized, and they get their wrists slapped.  Yeah, they may get a whopping fine, but that is about it.  Something like that should result in loss of cars, house, etc.
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Offline powderman

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2010, 12:55:26 PM »
A friend here has ponds on 2 sets of property. One pond was overstocked with bass so he caught a bunch and put them in a barrel in his truck to take them to his other pond a 1/2 mile away. He was arrested and fined for having short fish, HIS FISH that he was simply transferring to his other pond. That wasn't right at all. I have no use for poachers and game laws serve a purpose but this guy did no wrong. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline Spirithawk

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2010, 02:51:42 PM »
That does suck. Did he fight it in court? I sure would have.

Offline Land_Owner

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2010, 02:52:53 PM »
They got what they deserved.

Offline nw_hunter

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2010, 03:34:44 PM »
If they had been a fish or two over, yeah, excessive.  Especially if they got back together after a day of fishing separately they met up and pooled their catch.  But close to 150 over? Sorry, throw the book at 'em.

Of course, here in CA we get abalone poachers who get caught with 100+ with a lot of undersized, and they get their wrists slapped.  Yeah, they may get a whopping fine, but that is about it.  Something like that should result in loss of cars, house, etc.


LOL! Well if they take the house and car, they may as well take the wife & Kids too.

If you want to  really punish the poacher, make them do hard time on weekends for the next year.
That would get the ........DO NOT BREAK THE GAME LAWS point across. Taking the house or car would end up hurting innocent family members.

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Offline searlock

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2010, 03:37:08 PM »
Throw the book at those criminals. They are just sheep. Here in my state speeding fines in some counties have increased to 1000.00. in the past I would flash my head lights at oncomming traffic to warn drivers of speed traps. No more. These lousy criminals deserve to have their insurance rates to go up for five years. We don't have near enough laws in this country or law enforcement personel. I wonder what happened to the confiscated boats? Lawmen using them to catch more criminals? I wonder if those boys from tenn will be watching the new cop shows this fall. Yeah they will they are just sheep.

Offline wreckhog

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2010, 03:45:32 PM »
If they are professional poachers, the confiscated boats were probably paid for with fish money. I base this on knowing professional poachers for my entire life. Believe or not, most were cops. The work schedule can make it easy to get on (and off) the water before the game wardens go to work. And if caught, they just offer some fillets, flash a badge, BS a little and try for some professional courtesy. In my state, they even went through the trouble of cycling in wardens from the boonies, to stir up things. At one point, a buddy got caught with the days haul, 600 striped bass. He had them pre sold, and it was about a $12K payday.  Big enough money that they could not talk the warden out of a ticket. His pension was in jeopardy, he cut a deal where he donated the catch and promised not to do it anymore. That was that. Kept his pension and gave up fishing.

Offline Swampman

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2010, 04:06:35 PM »
Who would pay for small mouth bass?
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2010, 05:22:59 PM »
The problem with law enforcement agencies confiscating property is that they sell it to supplement their own departments. They buy equipment, and augment salaries with it. This should be illegal, but it creates a perverse incentive for the law enforcement people to confiscate more and more property. There are many cases around this country where the sale of confiscated property literally adds millions of dollars per year to the budgets of law enforcement agencies who have come to depend on that money.

The confiscation of property that then goes back to the budgets of the people who do the confiscating is totally wrong, should be illegal, is widespread and getting more common, and we continue to put up with it like a bunch of fools.

Question this practice in your own home town before it gets out of hand.

$1000 for speeding? That is not public safety. That is corruption. That is over 2 percent of the average American middle class worker's salary. In many places it is 4%. That is corruption.

Offline powderman

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2010, 05:38:04 PM »
SPIRITHAWK. No, he spent a few days in jail and paid the fine, and still lost his own fish. POWDERMAN.  ::) ::)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline Spirithawk

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2010, 05:57:59 PM »
I think I'd have been talking to an attorney! A biologist can prove where fish were caught.

Offline eye shot

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2010, 06:14:39 PM »
Being from Port Clinton and a fisherman I've seen bigger fines to some locals. One thing I look at is that they were older men and how many years have they been getting away with poaching? I'll bet it was'nt there first.
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Offline S.S.

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2010, 06:19:47 PM »
Depends on circumstances as to my feeling on poaching..
if any of my Family might go hungry, I would do it and not
blink an eye about it... 
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Offline hunt-m-up

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2010, 02:08:07 AM »
Sounds appropriate, poaching is a high dollar business. Don't worry about these guys, they will be back at it in a couple months and will make up for their losses. We see this here more commonly with B&C whitetails, the mounts and racks are worth the risk of getting caught. The penalties should be adjusted accordingly to serve as a deterrent.
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Offline slim rem 7

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2010, 02:30:41 AM »
i think this will be,the antigunner big move to seperate gun owner from each other.. first get landowners an haves to embrace  licencing guns etc. land owners will jump all over that an gladly be willing to licemse thier arms.. eliminates a nuisance problem..
.. then when the right time comes..
 revoke thier licence , of couse just temorarily.. [of course it is..] presto they have circumvented the 2nd..
 ive owned land.. never made a big issue of it..if i walked up on a man in my woods ,id introduce myself ..make sure he knew where my house was.. then tellim ,just don t wear out the welcome..
 we don t need gov t  to regulate everything,or to be sticking its nose into local matters..jmo slim

Offline wreckhog

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2010, 02:48:09 AM »
ive owned land.. never made a big issue of it..if i walked up on a man in my woods ,id introduce myself ..make sure he knew where my house was.. then tellim ,just don t wear out the welcome..
 we don t need gov t  to regulate everything,or to be sticking its nose into local matters..jmo slim

You seriously don't care if someone is poaching deer on your land? I gotta think it is a no win situation for you in many ways.

Offline Land_Owner

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2010, 03:06:51 AM »
Quote from: wreckhog
You seriously don't care if someone is poaching deer on your land? I gotta think it is a no win situation for you in many ways.
It is serious.  Once that "door" has been opened, his buddies, their buddies, and soon everybody believes they have permission and the "right" to be there.  Very soon, there is nothing there for you, except the mortgage and taxes to pay.

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2010, 03:09:42 AM »
Lots of thoughts going on here.
Let's seperate them.
POACHERS are lawbreakers--normally for profit. Like any business, you invest to grow the business. You try and you get caught---bankrupcy is the end results.
I have NO problem with that---and no sad feelings for the offenders.
Mighty tough on the average Joe who has a fish that is 1/8" under/oversized.
Traffic laws are getting out of hand, IMO, in some places--inthis economy. Zero tolerance is tanamont to stealing with traffic fine. This has been an age old problem--especially in small towns--rural areas.
In these places you are railroaded too the judge and fines are demanded  in cash. These folks are no better than poachers.
We have enough laws---we don't need no more steenkin laws.
Folks speed---I know I do. Folks are not criminals because they speed. Speed kills--I hear a couple of you boys crying. Well, yes it does. Take your car too the race track--another old saying.
Boys--if you put anothers life in danger. I agree. Don't go whippin thru residential areas, school zones, in and out of traffic to get ahead of another---use some simple sense.
I put the Mustang up to 120 in the Florida Panhandle passing some line of 18 wheelers one morning. I was taking a chance on getting caught--I would have paid the fine.
NOW--I have had my share of fines---more than most of you law abiding boys.
Don't hand me the BS that it is a $1000 offense. That is greed.
Blessings
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Offline slim rem 7

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2010, 03:33:08 AM »
im just glad we live in a country where we can still agree or disagree with out expecting a visit from the feds about midnight..individual freedom an the right to pursue happiness ,are wonderful an taken for granted..
 guess we better enjoy it.. right to bear arms is the only stopper to absolute gov t we got..lose it an your land won t be your land long ,if you not politically correct.. again jmo. slim

Offline beerbelly

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2010, 04:37:51 AM »
The problem with law enforcement agencies confiscating property is that they sell it to supplement their own departments

I remember a case down in Louisiana where they were confiscating drug cars. They stopped a woman from Cal in a new Lincoln town car. She had no drugs. was never charged with anything. They just confiscated Her Car.
 Two years later and 40 thousand dollars in lawyer fees and she still had not gotten her car back! Sixty minuets did a show on her. As far as I  know she never got her car back.
    The cops are the biggest crooks out there, and have way to much power! This sort of thing should never happen in this country, but it dose all the time.
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Offline powderman

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Re: Poachers
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2010, 09:02:20 AM »
Quote
You seriously don't care if someone is poaching deer on your land? I gotta think it is a no win situation for you in many ways.


wreckhog. I believe Slim was referring to trespassers, not poachers. Poaching used to be real bad here. I've fired more than a few rounds very close to them, I won't tolerate scum like that. One morning a bowhunter started seeing things as the sun came up. There were 5 dead deer all withing 20 yds of his stand. The back had been slit open and the tenderloin taken, left all the rest to rot. Nope, I don't think much of poachers. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm