Author Topic: Forum "Road-Kill" (MORKO TRANSLATION PROJECT) (Read 9443 times)

thelionspaw · « **on:** July 25, 2010, 05:20:59 AM »

Well I tried to introduce some esoteric knowledge in the NEW BRONZE post but it has just lain there on the side like a road kill with everybody just driving bye. I'm running it up the flag pole here, to see if anyone salutes (that's 50's Madison Avenue ad' speak

).

On the MORKO breech end, there is a linear design, to wit: The "W" with the tail that forms a "P".

This appears to be a "Norse...Anglo-Saxon...Middle or Old English rune" in a combination with 2 different rune forms to express a single thought..

The "rune" was the basis for the Northern European written language.

There was alot of borrowing of the stick figures as the written language took form over an extended period of time among different ethnic groups. Subtle changes, here and there but the translations were fairly constant.

The "W" with a straight "tail", stood for EARTH or GRAVE. The Anglo-Saxons used it for the "ea" sound.

The part that forms the "tail", if standing alone, can stand for a number of things among the Norse but the Anglo-Saxons used it for the "th" sound. It was also used to express the god THOR and GIANT.

THOR is the son of ODIN.

Boring; isn't it?

Morko is a fascinating relic in a cultural sense, that goes well beyond fire & smoke. It is NOT Christian from what I have seen.

Speaking of "Fire & Smoke"; I am taking a break to do 2 chickens in my smoker.

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #1 on:** July 25, 2010, 05:44:47 AM »

I noticed it there, but I don't really know anything about the subject, so I can't contribute to what you've already said. I think it would be very interesting to have an expert on ancient languages look at it to interpret the characters and inscriptions on it, though I suspect the notion that the craftsman that made it didn't know the language, but was only copying symbols, is very probable. That means that anything on it could be partial jibberish, and even though I have one of Gary's, his is an interpretation of the symbols on the original, which very well could be interpretations by the original craftsman, so at least 1 generation of pure guesswork, probably 2, by at least 1 person who doesn't know the language at all. In short, I've got nothing to add - even the pictures of mine do nothing to help understand the meaning of the original.

The information you gave adds a new dimension to my appreciation of the Morko. If you recognize any of the other symbols on it, I'd love to know your interpretation of them.

RocklockI · « **Reply #2 on:** July 25, 2010, 05:56:02 AM »

Yes there is a W and a P sorta shape just behind the head .

There is also an arrow on the left rear .

The symbol just ahead of the touch hole interested me . It took hours to recreate it on the positive .

On the bronze I lost it . It is there but very faint . I dont know what it is but since it has some cruves and a round bit of cross hatching in the middle of it . To me it shows motion or something mythic /religous almost a figure with little feet or fires at the bottom .

On the right side there are some little arrows? or flowers that go up and then bend over and point down .
On the left side theres a pointy 4 leaf clover symbol , on mine it's there but faint .

It was very interesting to copy ,I wish I'd had these new pics. as Dans pics are now the gold standard .

Gary

thelionspaw · « **Reply #3 on:** July 25, 2010, 06:27:17 AM »

GCBP,
Right! Illiteracy leaves alot of room for the, "Fudge Factor". English as we know it today, in itself, was only standardized in 1755 with Dr. Samuel Johnson's publication of a dictionary. Before that and in some quarters today, standard English is not used.

The rune I sited, are transcribed from published historical translations. My supposition is based upon the owner's intent to convey his feelings. Akin to decals on a pick-up's window or a bumper sticker on a car.

Gary,
I'll have to take a look later. Get me what you can; please.

Double D · « **Reply #4 on:** July 25, 2010, 06:32:46 AM »

Go for it Richard.

Start here.

{NOTE: I was unable to determine what pictures were here when restoring the links. The following posts should have all the correct pictures any way. If anyone can think of any missing pictures please let me know.)

Okay Richard, here what I did for you. Below each picture is a hot link to the picture in full size. Just click on the link and the picture will open full size for you to see better detail. I also rotated the images 180 degrees incase the were upside down.

I'll work on the other panels up and get them posted.

RocklockI · « **Reply #5 on:** July 25, 2010, 06:37:51 AM »

B ......U .......... Y M....O ..........R ......... E

O ......... V ..... A ......... L .................T ............ I ............. N ............ E

Thanks Doug

Gary

Double D · « **Reply #6 on:** July 25, 2010, 06:47:27 AM »

Quote from: RocklockI on July 25, 2010, 06:37:51 AM

B ......U .......... Y M....O ..........R ......... E

O ......... V ..... A ......... L .................T ............ I ............. N ............ E

Thanks Doug

Gary

You could be right, see the Bronze post for the translation I found.

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #7 on:** July 25, 2010, 06:50:28 AM »

Quote from: RocklockI on July 25, 2010, 05:56:02 AM

Yes there is a W and a P sorta shape just behind the head .

There is also an arrow on the left rear .

The symbol just ahead of the touch hole interested me . It took hours to recreate it on the positive .

On the bronze I lost it . It is there but very faint . I dont know what it is but since it has some cruves and a round bit of cross hatching in the middle of it . To me it shows motion or something mythic /religous almost a figure with little feet or fires at the bottom .

That brings up another good point - aside from the damage/wear that exists on the original, it's also possible that some of the symbols on the original craftsman's positive didn't translate into their bronze casting.

Quote from: RocklockI on July 25, 2010, 05:56:02 AM

On the right side there are some little arrows? or flowers that go up and then bend over and point down .
On the left side theres a pointy 4 leaf clover symbol , on mine it's there but faint .

It was very interesting to copy ,I wish I'd had these new pics. as Dans pics are now the gold standard .

Gary

I was thinking that too. If you had those pictures, and we had aged one of yours...I think Dan could now be in possession of the original, and Charlotte would be none the wiser.

Double D · « **Reply #8 on:** July 25, 2010, 06:50:52 AM »

Top panel.

http://www.fototime.com/B7414434BB8D540/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/58EAE4243EB1B28/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/84E724ED3394A66/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/0C81BDFE1188A6A/orig.jpg

brokenpole · « **Reply #9 on:** July 25, 2010, 06:53:12 AM »

Quote from: RocklockI on July 25, 2010, 06:37:51 AM

B ......U .......... Y M....O ..........R ......... E

O ......... V ..... A ......... L .................T ............ I ............. N ............ E

Thanks Doug

Gary

Ah...Christmas in July. Now I know why the cartoon network is showing Christmas cartoons. You started something Gary.

Double D · « **Reply #10 on:** July 25, 2010, 07:18:43 AM »

Upper right Panels.

http://www.fototime.com/E6968053C9AE98E/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/E633955C3C2BE48/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/BC639487E127D2E/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/D40C0F6D942BC50/orig.jpg

Gentleman these markings were not cast, they are engraved. If they were cast they would not be smooth flat topped and smooth incise, unless the incise were chased. This thing is a real work of art.

Double D · « **Reply #11 on:** July 25, 2010, 07:43:01 AM »

Top Rear panel.

http://www.fototime.com/4159EF9038485FA/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/A275074AC01CE7A/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/E427B050EBCEF4A/orig.jpg

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #12 on:** July 25, 2010, 07:48:19 AM »

Quote from: thelionspaw on July 25, 2010, 05:20:59 AM

Well I tried to introduce some esoteric knowledge in the NEW BRONZE post but it has just lain there on the side like a road kill with everybody just driving bye. I'm running it up the flag pole here, to see if anyone salutes (that's 50's Madison Avenue ad' speak ).
...
Richard

Richard (the all seeing) - sometimes (perhaps most often?) we just NEED the dope-slap to get our attention. You have our permission. We will now EXPECT it.

Incitatus · « **Reply #13 on:** July 25, 2010, 07:53:24 AM »

Funny, I've been looking to buy a repro of this firearm for some time.

The script is an odd mix. Some is classic 14th century black letter or Gothic.

It's a wonderful object.

thelionspaw · « **Reply #14 on:** July 25, 2010, 09:12:40 AM »

Years ago, when I was in the middle of a Gaulish Celt project, I inadvertantly googled a site where someone had detailed line drawings for the script on all sides of the MORKO; perfect for translation but I didn't make note of it. I have been googling through burning hoops but nada. If anyone can find it; let me know.

As a German employer of mine used to say to me when I was in my teens, "Reechit! Vee gdroo to zoon olt, unt too layt schmaat".

How true, how true.

I have an original folio sized lumination (large page from a book of chanted prayers, that was lettered by a monk in the south of France during the 14th c. +-). It is hanging on my dining room wall. It has been translated (and the notes played on a recorder to boot) so it my come in handy.

Rent "Name of the Rose" with Sean Connery. I own a copy and have viewed it countless times. You'll get a feel for the Morko time frame. It's a wonder any of us are still here. $:-\$

Reechit das Heretic

Double D · « **Reply #15 on:** July 25, 2010, 11:37:43 AM »

I don't know if this page will show without being log on.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12091

This one might.

http://www.albrechts.se/Library/Pdfer/Handgonnes%20and%20cannons.pdf

If you goggle Mörköbössan, you will get a bunch of hits.

thelionspaw · « **Reply #16 on:** July 25, 2010, 04:11:07 PM »

O.K.. Thanks. Alot of good things to work with. When I first saw the design by the vent, I thought it was an image of a DEVIL. So I transcribed it the other day but without the distracting fruit-salad. I believe I am correct. Highly stylized but it's there.

What lends credibility to my supposition, is the fact that it is at the vent...sulphur...fire...smoke...flames and brimstone; the essence of Hell, with the lead ball being launched to send the enemy to the fires of eternal damnation

LOKI was the devil like figure in the Norse pantheon of gods. He represented FIRE. Where better to place him but at the vent?

Yuh gotta love these religious

Nothing changes but the dates. I wouldn't limit our thinking to Swedish ownership. There were many peoples sailing the Baltic. I believe the owner was Anglo-Saxon. Probably from Britain.

Here are examples of 14th c. art with the DEVIL and the R.C.Pope as the devil. I have also given you my art-work for the cleaned-up morko image.

They look like gargoyles. Some even look like garboys.

More to follow.

rc

Double D · « **Reply #17 on:** July 25, 2010, 04:24:34 PM »

Quote from: thelionspaw on July 25, 2010, 04:11:07 PM

gargoyles...garboys

rc

Groan!

thelionspaw · « **Reply #18 on:** July 25, 2010, 04:55:03 PM »

Victor3 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 25, 2010, 05:17:21 PM »

Don't forget about the Viqueens.

BoomLover · « **Reply #20 on:** July 25, 2010, 05:43:05 PM »

A most fascinating discussion of the "Art of Morko", complete with the on-going scenario of "Master Chef Richard" regaling us with his smoked Chicken. This site really has it all! Appreciate the close-up pics of the details on Morko...am following with interest! BoomLover

RocklockI · « **Reply #21 on:** July 25, 2010, 05:49:17 PM »

I might tend to agree with you LP , it does look to be an orb that flows with motion and could well be the devil ..... Of course it might be the holy spirit too .

Moko Smoked Chicken

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #22 on:** July 26, 2010, 01:41:13 AM »

Quote from: RocklockI on July 25, 2010, 05:49:17 PM

...
Morko Smoked Chicken

5 Stars !

thelionspaw · « **Reply #23 on:** July 26, 2010, 05:28:44 AM »

Some of us tend to think of the devil, through modern imagery, as fairly human in form. Hardly anything scary about that, unless you are very, very young and being indoctrinated. Then the devil is man-like, red, with a tail, horns and maybe ever cloven hooves (if you are really into frightening children).

The medieval devil's imagery, was geared for the people who didn't have TV or access to literature (books). The more horrific, the better. Imagination ruled. In reality, this can even be said to be the case during our present 21st century; with some people.

I can imagine the engraver's hand shaking and mind wandering while he was illustrating the original. Hence; it's a bit sloppy but the 14th c. mind knew full well, what was there.

dan610324 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 26, 2010, 05:53:16 AM »

extremely interesting

RocklockI · « **Reply #25 on:** July 26, 2010, 06:21:18 AM »

I had originated it my mind upside down . I thought it was some orb rising , but now I can see it .

Gary

What are the little folded over or wilting flowers ? what about the pointy four leaf clover on the left side ?

Thanks Gary

RocklockI · « **Reply #26 on:** July 26, 2010, 07:31:20 AM »

Did you guys notice the hole for a pin to hold it onto the shaft ?

I happened to put one on mine , just cause .

Then with the Dan Pics what do you know there was a hole there on the OM (origanal Morko) !

Gary

Zulu · « **Reply #27 on:** July 26, 2010, 07:32:22 AM »

You know, when I invert that picture, I see an iron helmet with a decorative nose guard and a (bullet?) hole in the forehead.
Or else Darth Vader.
Zulu

thelionspaw · « **Reply #28 on:** July 26, 2010, 10:09:32 AM »

ZULU,
Stay out of the cactus juice.

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #29 on:** July 26, 2010, 03:06:08 PM »

Quote from: RocklockI on July 26, 2010, 07:31:20 AM

Did you guys notice the hole for a pin to hold it onto the shaft ?

I happened to put one on mine , just cause .

Then with the Dan Pics what do you know there was a hole there on the OM (origanal Morko) !

Gary

It makes sense - wouldn't want it to fall off the shaft into the Baltic Sea....du-oh!