What will the economic impact of the exodus of illegals from AZ be?

[beerbelly]

Nice read but the question was enomic cost and it will be alot you can bank on that

Sure will, for Mexico!!! They are crying and raising hell . Don't send them back we can't afford them.
                                    Beerbelly

[beerbelly]

Victor3 , you sound like a good company man. You don't want employees ,you want slave labor. That jumps when you yell never question anything. You remind me a supervisor at the plant I worked at most of my life. He said what we needed was another depression, so he could tell the workers that if they didn't like their job there was a barefoot boy at the gate that will take it.
   I'll bet if ICE ever checks you most of those dudes will be illegal!!!
                           Beerbelly

[powderman]

VICTOR. You made some valid points about REAL IMMIGRANTS, they went through the proper channels, have been checked out, followed the rules and our laws, and now speak English, and I say, thats great, welcome fellow Americans. Illegals are NOT immigrants, they are simply criminals, invaders who shame the real immigrants here. They should not be here, period, and should be treated like we would treat anybody else breaking our laws and invading our nation. Find em, ship em out after they build the wall. Americans are fed up with these scum. I'm tired of my tax $s feeding them, schooling their kids, paying their medical bills, paying their rent, etc. What is it about the word ILLEGAL that is so hard for some folks to understand?? POWDERMAN.  

[powderman]

Just read on yahoo that sheriff Joe is preparing to send out 200 deputies tomorrow to start the new law off right. He has also made room for 100 more criminals in his tent city and says he'll make more room if necessary. GOOOOOOOOO Joe. POWDERMAN. 

[WylieKy]

Victor3 , you sound like a good company man. You don't want employees ,you want slave labor. That jumps when you yell never question anything. You remind me a supervisor at the plant I worked at most of my life. He said what we needed was another depression, so he could tell the workers that if they didn't like their job there was a barefoot boy at the gate that will take it.
   I'll bet if ICE ever checks you most of those dudes will be illegal!!!
                           Beerbelly

Beerbelly, you sound like a liberal trapped in a conservatives body. All emotion, no rationale, and a passing acquaintance with the facts.    If you don't think most middle class white kids are the next best thing to worthless in a working enviroment, you must have been on wellfare the last 10 years.  The only thing worse are most urban black kids.  I worked for a Fortune 200 company for the last few years and the educated white kids couldn't be bothered to put down their $300.00 phones and stop texting long enough to do their job.  The urban black kids were the same, only on 200.00 phones, and they took 30 min to walk to and from their 15 min breaks.  The white kids would quit at the drop of the hat, and the black kids would push to get fired so they can sue for their manager being a racist (even against their black managers   )  Now I didn't have a lot of interaction with illegals in that position, but the legals that had made the effort to learn our language were some of our hardest workers.  

I've worked in construction too, and can say the same exact thing.  There were exceptions to the rule, but the best bang for your buck at an entry level position is going to be a latino, 9 out of 10 times.  Now is that their fault, or ours?

[powderman]

The urban black kids were the same, only on 200.00 phones, and they took 30 min to walk to and from their 15 min breaks.


Oh yeah??? You ever try walking fast with your pants down around your ankles??? POWDERMAN. 

[beerbelly]

Not hard to pick out the business types here that wants and do work the illegal so they can make that extra buck!
                                     Beerbelly

[billy_56081]

I guess we are seeing the "guilty white people" Obongo supporters showing themselves here.

[WylieKy]

Not hard to pick out the business types here that wants and do work the illegal so they can make that extra buck!
                                     Beerbelly

Yeah, I like to make the most money I can while making ethical, legal decisions and helping when and where I can.  I do not believe in Corporate Welfare.  I think that the dedicated, hard workers should be rewarded, regardless of sex or skin color, and the lazy ones should go piss up a rope and waste some one else's time.  That's quite a philosophy you have there, Beerbelly.  Or should I say Comrade?  There is a system where people are all equal, and treated equally despite their personal work ethic or inherent value.  Do you often pontificate for the Greater Good?  The PRC really needs English teachers.

[wreckhog]

I guess we are seeing the "guilty white people" Obongo supporters showing themselves here.

Is Obongo derogatory?

[jimster]

Nice read but the question was economic cost and it will be alot you can bank on that

I think I was trying to point out there would be no "cost" to us at all....since we are in economic ruin now with all of them here.
So to get to the point of my post, I think legal Americans would be much better off economically in our schools, our hospitals/emergency rooms, our food stamps, welfare, county jails, prisons... we also house many illegals as well.

There is no proof at all Americans will go under without the illegals here, we do have proof of what the states and feds are spending on them in many area's.  Even as we speak, we have a state that not only pays through the nose both financially and with our citizens getting kidnapped and murdered, but now we have a state that has to pay to defend itself from litigation...all because of illegals being here. More money down the drain.

Show me your numbers on how our economy will "go under" and people will not adust to anything at all, and I will do a search on what this is costing us having them all here right now.  I don't see any down side to all of them being forced to go home through enforcing our fed laws. They just leave cause there is no work.

I've seen illegals here in the work place over many years, one of them many years ago worked here for about 6.5 years, did not pay taxes like I did, bought a huge blue-berry farm in Mexico with the money he sent home, and then left. He now owns and operates a huge farm with money he made here off his huge gross pay...what did he contribute to America?  Our company stopped hiring illegals many years ago, due to the laws and fines, so we have not had them here for a very long time.

Economic cost...our leaders have cost us more than anyone ever could by letting them in here by the millions.  

[wreckhog]

There is a lot of dignity in working hard and saving every penny so that you could be your own boss. Are you saying that is what all illegals are like? I know plenty of whites that would do well to emulate that.

I knew a woman, that performed enough $5 acts to buy a small building in Manhattan and rent it. After a couple of decades of buying and selling properties, she is a mini mogul. No doubt, she would be horrified if her kids ever learned how their private school was paid for or how it is that they will never need to work a day in their lives if they choose not to.

Some say, it is not how you get there, it is where you end up.

[Avyctes]

Judge stymies the new AZ immigration law which will affect the economic effect.

From CNN:

Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/07/28/judge-blocks-part-of-controversial-arizona-immigration-law/?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

[powderman]

Very sad to hear this. I hope Jan Brewer tells osama and the judge to stick it and goes ahead with defending America. What a shame to have scum like osama in office, I guess it hits too close to home, him being an illegal kenyan himself. POWDERMAN. 

[teamnelson]

I'd expect the unemployment rate to change for the better as citizens take the jobs that illegals are leaving. Relative to the change in the national average of course. As citizens will be paid more and on the books, prices should rise. Prisons should empty. Emergency room wait times should drop dramatically. What else?

Prisons won't be empty, but definitely less crowded. Schools will be less crowded, and more effective as they can use the same $ for fewer children, and the need for ESL, bilingual, special needs will diminish (all of which have a cost). The use of all public services like ER will decrease, but not dramatically. In other words, the level and quality of services will more appropriately match the tax base that funds it.

The real mythos is the job discussion. Where does the extra $ come from to pay all those Americans waiting to take over when the illegals are gone? If I pay Jose $10 an hour for a construction job that a legal union scale requires $25, that's a %250 increase in labor cost to the developer. If Jose is a more efficient worker than his replacement Jim (as many contend), let's just say by 10%, then the additional cost of that loss of efficiency goes to who? The developer. Where does the developer get his $ to cover his costs? From the buyer? Anybody paying attention to the housing market in Arizona?

Part of the mythos is that profits in these businesses are so huge that boards/developers/owners can afford to absorb the difference in labor costs. The reality is many if not most businesses that hire illegals are operating on such a narrow margin right now, that they could not afford transforming their labor base and stay in business.

[jlchucker]

What exodus?  After reading the headlines about the judge's decision this afternoon on the web, all I see are pictures of illegals dancing in the streets. What next? 

[WylieKy]

The three most high profile industries that use illegal labor are the restaurant,construction (specifically roofing, framing, and finishing), and farming industries.  An amazingly profitable restaurant will run on an 8% positive margin, most are closer to 4-6%.  Roofing, framing, and finishing contractors are usually 2-3%.  Farming is around 1%.  Of course the fed, state, and locals get a cut of that.  Counter that with Real Estate (as bad as it is) 10%, entertainment 12%, Pharmeceuticals 20%, IT 30%......  The industries that hire illegals, hire illegals because they can't afford lazy and/or overpaid labor.  They don't have the safety margin to abosorb loss, therefore your prices are going to go up, and probably by 10-20%.  Try to wrap your mind around new construction, produce, even a freaking whopper going up, then the snow ball effect that will have on everything else.

[teamnelson]

your prices are going to go up, and probably by 10-20%.  Try to wrap your mind around ... a freaking whopper going up.

Wylie, it'll take the price of a whopper going up (I think 50% is more accurate given next years tax changes) before some folks "get it." I'm still all for deportation of illegals, but I'm also prepared for the economy to take another plunge afterwards until we the people go back to the work ethic of our heritage.

The alternative is the one Obama offers ... nationalization of all goods & services. That way you can make that number whatever makes your self-esteem tick, but we'll all get the same house, car, education, and food ration, and health care at the end of the day. Those 12 million illegals (more like 24 million) would be happy to live at that standard.

[jimster]

Why are we worried about a business going under because they pay super low wages to illegals? Let em go under. If there is a demand for what that business does, you can bet anther one will take it's place. Far as paying low wages to illegals, they are going to pass a law that stops that anyway, it's already being worked on in Congress, so where does that leave us when that happens?  Will the business go under then? Your saying they will, and you are probably right about a number of them going under...but now they go under anyways with them all here cause we pass another law that says you have to pay them decent, or give them amnesty.  Not saying they should not be paid decent either, they should. Might as well beat them to the punch and enforce the fed laws and let that happen without them here, cause it's happening as we speak, and the businesses your talking about are going to go under anyway.  With them here.
I can think of a lot of senarios with them here that does not work out in the long run, and not any that is worse with enforcing the fed laws in the long run.
Yes, it's true some people are harder workers than others, it's also true people of all colors are lazy, and people of all colors are hard workers too, why try to sort all that out?  let the businesses that hire people do that. There are a number of people that would start up small businesses if the government would step down and back off, they will know who they want working for them. We are talking about a number of businesses and industries here that take advantage of illegals and paying low wages, what about all the others that do not? Why can't we enforce laws or pass laws for the good people for once instead of always trying to find ways to get around the problems of the bad examples? Then you watch Congress pass more laws, right over the top of the ones they don't enforce, you wind up with the same crummy deal in the end for all the people who try to follow the rules.  

Don't be scared of some businesses going under, they are goin under anyway. Some probably should.  Let the younger people get back into a work ethics as they grow up like most of us did, grade shcool kids working in the muck hauling crates of veggies around. Did us some good.




 

[teamnelson]

amen Jimster!

[lgm270]

The economic impact would be wonderful for Americans. 

More American jobs would open up for Americans, wages would be higher.  Housing would be freed up and housing costs would drop.  You have to understand that Mexicans have as many as 30 people living in a single house,  many families sharing the cost. That's how they're able to buy houses. But,,,,they drive up housing costs for 1st world Americans who are not willing to have 30 people in a single dwelling.

The exodus of illlegal aliens would create a windfall from the public service point of view.  Imagine going to a court house, Dept. of Motor Vehicles, hospital, etc., and not have hordes of babbling, filthy stinking third world primitives standing in line ahead of you getting free public benefits you don't qualify for but that you have to pay for. Third world primitives are a scourge.   We're loaded with them in Southern California and they've damned near destroyed the place.  IF you've heard about Bell California and the city government that stole the city blind, Latino corruption is the reason for that disaster.  And the Bell disaster is but one of many such Mexican towns taken over that are crashing and burning because of looting by corrupt Mexican management.   

[powderman]

Far as paying low wages to illegals, they are going to pass a law that stops that anyway, it's already being worked on in Congress, so where does that leave us when that happens?



I read where the osama  admin wants illegals to file claims if they feel they haven't been paid the prevailing wage so the govt can give them a check for the difference. I'm really sick of these scum. POWDERMAN. 

[billy_56081]

The judge and tle filthy parasitic lawyer scum who worked on getting this law blocked need to be tried for treason and hung immediatly upon sentencing. This is what lawyers are doing for America, nothing but filthy parastites on our country.

[scootrd]

I would love to see this post pinned so we can revisit in a year.

 I wonder how everyone will feel when they start paying 5.00 dollars per Orange as an example. You think business owners are not going to try an maintain their existing profit margins.

Don't get me wrong I have always said what part of Illegal aliens don't people seem to  not understand.  
Just be prepared ..... Business does not want a strong immigration package ...why??? because ... If they are forced to pay higher livable wages to employ Americans to do the same job (as well as provide benefits etc). do you all honestly think they will just absorb the loss ? of course not they will pass it right along to the consumer.  Lets see how each of our monthly household budgets already stretched thin as it is will be able to deal with that.  As the manufacturing costs increase to cover American wages the price of all consumer goods will rise.

The CBPP report  found a financial Grand Canyon separating the very rich from everyone else.

(These are your Business owners generally speaking )

Over the three decades ending in 2007, the top 1 percent's share of the nation's total after-tax household income more than doubled, from 7.5 percent to 17.1 percent.

(These are your Business owners employees generally speaking)
During that same time, the share of the middle 60% of Americans dropped from 51.1 percent to 43.5 percent; the bottom four-fifths declined from 58 percent to 48 percent. As for the poor, they fell further and further behind, with the lowest quintile's income share sliding to just 4.9%. Expressed in dollar terms, the income gap is staggering:

    Between 1979 and 2007, average after-tax incomes for the top 1 percent rose by 281 percent after adjusting for inflation -- an increase in income of $973,100 per household -- compared to increases of 25 percent ($11,200 per household) for the middle fifth of households and 16 percent ($2,400 per household) for the bottom fifth.

Point here is do you think business owners want to lose those kinds of percentage byhaving to pay higher wages?
Of course not.

[Victor3]

Victor3 , you sound like a good company man. You don't want employees ,you want slave labor. That jumps when you yell never question anything. You remind me a supervisor at the plant I worked at most of my life. He said what we needed was another depression, so he could tell the workers that if they didn't like their job there was a barefoot boy at the gate that will take it.
   I'll bet if ICE ever checks you most of those dudes will be illegal!!!
                           Beerbelly

 Why yes BB, as a matter of fact I am "a good company man" along with most of the people I work with. My company pays me well for what I do and provides me and my family with great benefits.

 In return, I'm charged with making sure the people in my departments earn the good wages & benefits the company is providing. And you're absolutely right, I don't put up with any insubordination. Recently suspended a guy for a week without pay. Next time it's hasta la vista, baby.

 Oh, and I'll be getting some new "slaves" in the coming weeks. HR just posted 8 job openings ($39K - $46K/yr) and we received ~75 applications the 1st day.

 Sho' do hope none take to the woods an' tucker the dogs tryin' a catch 'em...

[SHOOTALL]

Nice read but the question was enomic cost and it will be alot you can bank on that

Sure will, for Mexico!!! They are crying and raising hell . Don't send them back we can't afford them.
                                    Beerbelly

Why would they care ? most didn't come from Mexico to start with . Most came from places farther south .

[SHOOTALL]

Not hard to pick out the business types here that wants and do work the illegal so they can make that extra buck!
                                     Beerbelly

Not hard to pick out the hogwash either !

Let me make sure I got it stright BB kill all comming across , put the ones here in jail and send back to Mexico even though they came from other places then put in jail anyone who hired an illegal even though it took the govt, some time to track them down and prove their ID was false . Sounds like a plan FROM HITLER !

[billy_56081]

Nice read but the question was enomic cost and it will be alot you can bank on that

Sure will, for Mexico!!! They are crying and raising hell . Don't send them back we can't afford them.
                                    Beerbelly

Why would they care ? most didn't come from Mexico to start with . Most came from places farther south .

Again our illegal alien apologist tries to pass off another untruth. Most do come from Mexico, yes some do come from central America but for the most part they come from Mexico. I live amongst them and work with them at different times. Also my brother arrests them and often knows their legal status while ICE does nothing. Shootall it is your right to support these criminal , but please stop the lying to support your  views. Well I guess we can't expect honesty and integrity from folks who support our country being invaded.

[SHOOTALL]

Nice read but the question was enomic cost and it will be alot you can bank on that

Sure will, for Mexico!!! They are crying and raising hell . Don't send them back we can't afford them.
                                    Beerbelly

Why would they care ? most didn't come from Mexico to start with . Most came from places farther south .

Again our illegal alien apologist tries to pass off another untruth. Most do come from Mexico, yes some do come from central America but for the most part they come from Mexico. I live amongst them and work with them at different times. Also my brother arrests them and often knows their legal status while ICE does nothing. Shootall it is your right to support these criminal , but please stop the lying to support your  views. Well I guess we can't expect honesty and integrity from folks who support our country being invaded.

Billy I don't support them and would like to see every illegal out of our country period. I don't want to go in more debt than needed to accomplish it or give ( lose in the case of the citizens) more power to the govt to take care of it. Also to be able to combat any problem you need to know the truth of who the illegals are , where they really come from , where the real problem exist and how to stop it not just cause it to move to another place , Its easy to spout off hadle with BS but it has done nothing for the over 20 years this crisis has grown here. Az will only push them under ground for them to ooze out some place else . I would and have suggested we seal the border then start cleaning them up. Do it on a case by case basis . Some may be given a chance to be Americans if they wish to become true Americans and adopt our ways , others may be workers that pay taxes and other with holdings and recieve permissiom to do so. The bulk of others go back from where they came . I would suggest they recieve a fine that would help cover the collection and deporting process cost , U S citizens didn't bring them here and should not have to foot the bill to sent them home.As far as working them , I agree if you know they are illegal then shame on you !  but if you checked as you should and are told by SS they are ok to hire then shame on them not the guy who tried to do it right . And this slave labor thing is BS !And for the record the hispanics who have worked here and been trouble makers were from CA. born and raised there , mostly LA. not south of the border . It ya'll really want to help then spout facts not BS 

[powderman]

put the ones here in jail and send back to Mexico even though they came from other places then put in jail anyone who hired an illegal even though it took the govt, some time to track them down and prove their ID was false .



I don't give a hoot where they came from, they managed to invade America through mexico, TOUGH COOKIES. Caught invaders should NEVER, EVER be given American citizenship, they have proven themselves to be criminals and untrustworthy. POWDERMAN.