What will the economic impact of the exodus of illegals from AZ be?

[nw_hunter]

VICTOR. You made some valid points about REAL IMMIGRANTS, they went through the proper channels, have been checked out, followed the rules and our laws, and now speak English, and I say, thats great, welcome fellow Americans. Illegals are NOT immigrants, they are simply criminals, invaders who shame the real immigrants here. They should not be here, period, and should be treated like we would treat anybody else breaking our laws and invading our nation. Find em, ship em out after they build the wall. Americans are fed up with these scum. I'm tired of my tax $s feeding them, schooling their kids, paying their medical bills, paying their rent, etc. What is it about the word ILLEGAL that is so hard for some folks to understand?? POWDERMAN.  

Sheriff Joe understands it

PHOENIX -- Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio  vowed to continue enforcing federal immigration laws Wednesday, saying a federal judge’s decision to block key portions of SB 1070 would have no effect on his planned crime sweep in the valley Thursday.

The sheriff maintained that his enforcement efforts will not be affected.

“We arrest people every day for all types of actions, and we check if they’re here illegally," Arpaio said. "Really nothing has changed.”

Arpaio has been a strong supporter of SB 1070. Wednesday’s injunction temporarily halts provisions in the law which would require law enforcement officers to check a person’s immigration status in cases where there is reasonable cause to suspect that person was in the United States illegally.

A portion of the law requiring immigrants to carry documentation with them at all times was also put on hold.

Arpaio this week allowed media to tour a section of his “Tent City” jail facility that he called “Section 1070”, to demonstrate that he had plenty of available space for SB 1070 detainees. “If cops wanted to enforce it, I have the room,” he said today.

Arpaio pointed to the Department of Justice argument that federal enforcement agencies would be overburdened by SB 1070 and said, “Why don’t they let us help them instead of fighting us when we’re willing to help?”

Arpaio said he will follow-through with plans for his department’s 37th crime suppression sweep on Thursday afternoon.

[powderman]

“Why don’t they let us help them instead of fighting us when we’re willing to help?”



Simple enough. Osama needs their votes. It's just another way to destroy America, thats his goal. You osama voters should be ashamed of yourselves. Support Az, GOOOOOO JOE.  POWDERMAN.  

[jimster]

I wonder how everyone will feel when they start paying 5.00 dollars per Orange as an example. You think business owners are not going to try an maintain their existing profit margins.

We won't pay 5 bucks for an orange...it's just that simple.  when they can't sell any, price drops. Or someone else sells them for cheaper.  Any business that can't sell, will re-invent their entire business around this, or perish.

That's the way everything works in a market driven place.  The people will dictate the prices in the end.
I can't think of anyone I know who would pay 5 bucks for an orange, I'll buy more vitamins.

Jimster

[SHOOTALL]

put the ones here in jail and send back to Mexico even though they came from other places then put in jail anyone who hired an illegal even though it took the govt, some time to track them down and prove their ID was false .



I don't give a hoot where they came from, they managed to invade America through mexico, TOUGH COOKIES. Caught invaders should NEVER, EVER be given American citizenship, they have proven themselves to be criminals and untrustworthy. POWDERMAN. 

sorta like the erly settlers from English prisons ?

[scootrd]

There are an estimated 10.8 million illegal immigrants in the United States (give or take) depending on whos numbers you want to believe. As I said before what part of illegal don't people understand.

But I am also a realist.

There is no way we are going to deport 10 million people. We don't even have the resources to do so. They came here because there are Jobs. If there were no Jobs , there would be no reason for them to be here.

Business want 'em here.  Consumers who want to keep the price of consumed goods down want to keep 'em here.
Rep and Dems don't really want the issue resolved.

So lets get real , put them in Jail , deport, blah blah blah all internet tough talk. The only way to get them to leave is to take the jobs away and deny services.  and as long as business calls the shots in Washington, it's never gonna happen.

A national ID card is needed so employers have no ambiguity on who they are hiring. And who is arguing against the national Id card? Big business backed politicians.

Until America wants to get serious ... its all just political double speak.  

[powderman]

There is no way we are going to deport 10 million people.


I don't agree with that. Lets start NOW. The longest trip starts with a single step. POWDERMAN. 

[wreckhog]

There is no way we are going to deport 10 million people.


I don't agree with that. Lets start NOW. The longest trip starts with a single step. POWDERMAN. 

You do realize that you are talking like a commie?

[billy_56081]

Wreckhog you been quiet awhile, studying them W2 forms? 

[powderman]

wreckhog. I'm talking about removing criminals from society and repelling invaders. Do you realize you sound like an osama voter??? Bet I'm right. POWDERMAN.  

[wreckhog]

wreckhog. I'm talking about removing criminals from society and repelling invaders. Do you realize you sound like an osama voter??? Bet I'm right. POWDERMAN.  

I'm betting that you are a closet commie. Else you would not be quoting the little RED book.

"A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step."  (Mao Tse-tung (Zedong), 1893-1976)

[Victor3]

I wonder how everyone will feel when they start paying 5.00 dollars per Orange as an example. You think business owners are not going to try an maintain their existing profit margins.

 Let's look at that...

 An orchard owner in CA now pays a person ~$8/hr to harvest oranges. What would the increased cost per orange be if a harvester's wage were increased 50%, to $12/hr?

 Assume that a person could harvest one orange every 15 seconds (in reality, they're required to work much faster). That would be 240/hr. So doing the math...

 Each orange would cost 3.3 cents each to harvest at $8/hr.

 At $12/hr, the cost jumps to 4.95 cents, an increase of 1.65 cents each.

 Fact is, much of the cost of operating an orchard is paying for the land, water, chemicals, taxes, equipment etc. (fixed costs apart from labor). The trees do the majority of the work to produce the fruit, not the people tending them.

 I read a study a while back that stated if all farm workers in CA were to have their pay doubled, the average cost of all produce to the consumer would rise ~15%.

 Would you be willing to pay 15% more for your produce if the illegals were booted and Americans could make $16/hr to do the job, and the farmers were still making the same profit? I would.

 

[SHOOTALL]

I wonder how everyone will feel when they start paying 5.00 dollars per Orange as an example. You think business owners are not going to try an maintain their existing profit margins.

 Let's look at that...

 An orchard owner in CA now pays a person ~$8/hr to harvest oranges. What would the increased cost per orange be if a harvester's wage were increased 50%, to $12/hr?

 Assume that a person could harvest one orange every 15 seconds (in reality, they're required to work much faster). That would be 240/hr. So doing the math...

 Each orange would cost 3.3 cents each to harvest at $8/hr.

 At $12/hr, the cost jumps to 4.95 cents, an increase of 1.65 cents each.

 Fact is, much of the cost of operating an orchard is paying for the land, water, chemicals, taxes, equipment etc. (fixed costs apart from labor). The trees do the majority of the work to produce the fruit, not the people tending them.

 I read a study a while back that stated if all farm workers in CA were to have their pay doubled, the average cost of all produce to the consumer would rise ~15%.

 Would you be willing to pay 15% more for your produce if the illegals were booted and Americans could make $16/hr to do the job, and the farmers were still making the same profit? I would.

 

Your math is based on Americans wanting to pick oranges .* dollars is above min. wage but below the lifestyle many can get by on wealfare and unemployment. until that changes you might not get oranges .

[billy_56081]

Once again our resident "lazy American" illegal alien apologist pipes in with how we need these criminal invaders because Americans are to lazy to work.

[SHOOTALL]

put the ones here in jail and send back to Mexico even though they came from other places then put in jail anyone who hired an illegal even though it took the govt, some time to track them down and prove their ID was false .



I don't give a hoot where they came from, they managed to invade America through mexico, TOUGH COOKIES. Caught invaders should NEVER, EVER be given American citizenship, they have proven themselves to be criminals and untrustworthy. POWDERMAN. 

you do realize they can come here illegal or otherwise and join our military and become citizens ? I read that over 20% of our military is now hispanics 
BTW only some invade most just trespass , both are illegal but the intent is different . This is where we Americans need to decide which a person is commiting . This is what makes it hard to deal with . If all were invading I would guess most if not all Americans would agree mine the border and shoot on site but that is not the case . I would guess there are some who advocate that all be shot would not do so if all illegals were simple trespassing and all are not. I hear many saying kill them all . I would guess it was these same people or their parents calling for all African Americans in the cities to be shot because 20% or so were causing roits back in the late 60's early 70's. They had no regard for the African Americans who lived in these areas and who were good people just trying to stay alive. They have no regard today for anyone but themselves.

[Brett]

Hell, I'll pick oranges at $16/hr.  It's more than I make now cleaning carpet and stripping and waxing floors. 

[SHOOTALL]

Once again our resident "lazy American" illegal alien apologist pipes in with how we need these criminal invaders because Americans are to lazy to work.

Billy why do you call names ? Can't you think of anything intelligent to offer ? Where in the above post did i say we needed them ? I offered that America needs to get its own house in order if we want to correct the problem.
Take the blinders off just one time and look at things from a realistic view point . First its not 12 million illegals its more like 35 milloin . Why would a govt. not stop this ? I don't know about you but it seems fishy that we pay Americans to sit home and allow illegals to fill in there jobs . What could be good about this ? Lets see we have gone to other parts of the world and used other people to fight our battles then dropped them . We are facing a political battle is it so far fetched to think that bringing in illegals then making them citizens with a vote not possible ? Its not about republican or democrat its about America and a change to New America . Do you really believe its about picking oranges ? Its about picking way more than that.

[powderman]

"A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step."  (Mao Tse-tung (Zedong), 1893-1976)



wreckhog. I'm not familiar with the red book as you put it, but sounds like you are well versed in its contents. No matter who said it, it's true. Can't deport em all unless we get started. GO AZ AND JOE ARPAIO. POWDERMAN. 

[WylieKy]

wreckhog. I'm not familiar with the red book as you put it, but sounds like you are well versed in its contents. No matter who said it, it's true. Can't deport em all unless we get started. GO AZ AND JOE ARPAIO. POWDERMAN. 

Maybe that is one of the problems here.  Too many people uneducated about the monsters of our past. 

Humanitarianism is the expression of stupidity and cowardice.-Adolf Hitler

I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature.-Adolf Hitler

[powderman]

wylie. And your quotes have WHAT to do with removing known felons from society and repelling invaders from America??? You and wreckhog seem very familiar with the teachings of mao and hitler. Bet you both voted for osama. POWDERMAN.  

[dukkillr]

Please quit telling others what they believe... Calling someone a communist, socialist, nazi, etc... IS a personal attack and it does not bring anything to the quality of the discussion here.  GBO does not need it, and you are better than that.

[WylieKy]

And your quotes have WHAT to do with removing known felons from society and repelling invaders from America???

These are directed at the people that are viewing the immigrants with hate and disgust.  Every dictator from Caesar to Hitler to Hussein to Ahmadinejad has gained power by uniting a weak minded people against an "intrusive" minority.  I'm afraid that if the next Hitler stepped up and offered to "exterminate" the Mexican and Muslims, people would stand in line to sign away their souls.  Are you one of those people?

You and wreckhog seem very familiar with the teachings of mao and hitler.

Yes, I know the teachings of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and many many others.  Are you saying you don't?  These are teachings everyone should know to ward against the xenophobia, nationalism, and ignorance that allows a Hitler or Stalin to gain power and murder millions. 

Bet you both voted for osama.

As I have stated before, I voted for McCain, although I would have voted for a sewer rat if a good one had been on the ballot vs what was offered.   

You might want to work on reading comprehension while brushing up on history, as I have said repeatedly that I am FOR sealing our borders and kicking out the illegals.  What I don't like is name calling, bigotry, and blind hate or people that think that the expulsion of these people will have no negative impact on us.

[lgm270]

Where do I sign?  If it takes a xenophobic, nationalistic, patriotic leader who is loyal to our people, I'm on board.  California, once part of the USA, is now a political subdivision of Mexico and hundreds of square miles of metropolitan Southern California have been transformed by Mexicans into filthy stinking Mexican slums. 

Here in California, American kids have been punished by school administrators for displaying American flags at public, taxpayer funded schools because the Mexicans were "offended" by the American flag.   Americans can't get work and are the objects of racial discrimination and racially motivated violence and abuse by Mexicans.

We are an occupied country and Americans, especially white Americans, are now second class citizens in our own land.  If some leader comes forward and is willing to solve the problem, by whatever means necessary, he has my vote.   If it takes killing a few million of them to motivate them to return to where they belong...such is life.  They invaded my country. I did not invade theirs.   

[powderman]

Yes, I know the teachings of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and many many others.  Are you saying you don't?



wylie. No, I don't. I'd rather study the teachings of Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John. Ever hear of them?? POWDERMAN. 

[WylieKy]

wylie. No, I don't. I'd rather study the teachings of Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John. Ever hear of them?? POWDERMAN. 

I've done a bit of study there myself.  Where does it say "Scorn thy Mexican?", "Punish thy neighbor for being of Latino Decent?", or "Thou shalt be born White American."  I don't remember any of those.  I DO remember similar sentiment from the Third Reich, though.  One that I remember that always sticks with me and I use to try to guide my way in life is.

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Matthew, 5. 3

So, Powederman, a friendly challenge.  Show me a single statement in the New Testament that states that we should turn away the needy and persecute those trying to earn better lives for their families.  I've left religion out of this, because I KNOW what the Christian thing to do is.

[littlecanoe]

Nowhere in Christ's teachings does He emphasize that Government is the level where personal religion is practiced.
Nowhere in Christ's teachings does He emphasize that He established government for THE purpose of the fulfillment of His will and plan. 

Issues such as peacemaking, as you quoted from the Beattitudes, are those standards that the believer is to see manifest in his life through growth.

The first 4 Beattitudes  are specific to speak of a believer's understanding of his position in God.  Meek is an attitude of spirit as we see God's holiness.

These teachings, beattitudes, reflect the characteristics that the INDIVIDUAL should have.  They are not indicative of a group as a whole or a government.

The comparison is invalid.

[powderman]

wylie. All good stuff there but it has nothing to do with tracking down felons and those invading our land. I wasn't bringing religion into anything just saying I have no reason to want to study scum like you mentioned. I learned enough about  those people in high school history to last me a lifetime. I  hope every State in America adopts strict laws to fight this hoarde that is infesting our once great nation, and rids us of this infection. You don't seem to understand the concept of the word ILLEGAL, what part of that word do you not understand??POWDERMAN.  

[Victor3]

I wonder how everyone will feel when they start paying 5.00 dollars per Orange as an example. You think business owners are not going to try an maintain their existing profit margins.

 Let's look at that...

 An orchard owner in CA now pays a person ~$8/hr to harvest oranges. What would the increased cost per orange be if a harvester's wage were increased 50%, to $12/hr?

 Assume that a person could harvest one orange every 15 seconds (in reality, they're required to work much faster). That would be 240/hr. So doing the math...

 Each orange would cost 3.3 cents each to harvest at $8/hr.

 At $12/hr, the cost jumps to 4.95 cents, an increase of 1.65 cents each.

 Fact is, much of the cost of operating an orchard is paying for the land, water, chemicals, taxes, equipment etc. (fixed costs apart from labor). The trees do the majority of the work to produce the fruit, not the people tending them.

 I read a study a while back that stated if all farm workers in CA were to have their pay doubled, the average cost of all produce to the consumer would rise ~15%.

 Would you be willing to pay 15% more for your produce if the illegals were booted and Americans could make $16/hr to do the job, and the farmers were still making the same profit? I would.

 

Your math is based on Americans wanting to pick oranges .* dollars is above min. wage but below the lifestyle many can get by on wealfare and unemployment. until that changes you might not get oranges .

 Sometimes it doesn't matter what you "want." Quite a few Americans would be more than happy to pick oranges at $16/hr (2x CA minimum wage) if:

 1) They have enough self respect to not accept welfare (There are still some real men around, aren't there?).

 2) Their unemployment has run out and they don't have the skills/education to secure other employment.

 Personally, I'd do whatever it takes to support my family without accepting a govt handout.

 I'm a day laborer of sorts apart from my full-time job. I work as a 'casual' longshoreman at our local port, picking up jobs the regulars don't take. It's often dirty, dangerous work. Not something I have to do to make ends meet, but I enjoy it and make a little extra cash for my hobbies. I'd be bustin' down the doors to get the work if I really needed it.

 Directing the crane operator with hand signals to stack hatch covers from a container ship (at ~$20/hr)...

[Swampman]

Without cheap labor we will simply buy our produce from other countries.  That's where most of it comes from now.  It's amazing how little people understand about how our economy works.  Since the produce isn't picked here there will be no need for the folks that transport it to market or those who sell them fuel.  Government handouts aren't going to stop and those who accept them would rather die than work.

[Victor3]

Without cheap labor we will simply buy our produce from other countries.  That's where most of it comes from now.  It's amazing how little people understand about how our economy works.  Since the produce isn't picked here there will be no need for the folks that transport it to market or those who sell them fuel.  Government handouts aren't going to stop and those who accept them would rather die than work.

 Nope. We produce the majority of the vegetables and fruit we eat right here in the US.

[Swampman]

Next time you go to the store try to find something in the produce section that isn't imported.  It's very tuff......