What will the economic impact of the exodus of illegals from AZ be?

[Spirithawk]

Problem here is that many are looking for easy answers without any drawbacks. You can't always have everything cut and dried and without problems. The problem needs to be reduced to the basics. Legal imigrants are legal because they put forth the effort to be so. Illegals don't! Say what you will but that is both fact. We need to strengthen our borders for many reasons. Not just to keep Mexicans out. We also need to fine, and or jail, those who hire illegal aliens....of any race. Illegal is just that, ILLEGAL! We need to let Mexico know, in no uncertain terms, that they need to do their part to police the borders. All this talk about shooting them is ridiculous. Who among you is willing to shoot women and kids? If so then you are a sick individual and should be in jail yourselves. Ever have to kill someone? It's not fun! It's not glorious! It's certainly not sport!!!! We have laws for a reason. They are already in place. What's needed is to demand that polititions allow those who's jobs it is to enforce them to be allowed to do so and that they have the eqipment, manpower, and training to do so. Then the judges should be made to do their jobs as well. Where illegal Mexicans are concerned, make Mexico put repeat offenders inMexican prisons. Let them feed them. Hold Mexico responsible for their own people.

Very nice post, sir.

Thank you. I'm sure I'll catch h*** for it but that's the basics as I see it and lets not forget we have a border to the North that should be better secured as well.....SH ^i^

[wreckhog]

Problem here is that many are looking for easy answers without any drawbacks. You can't always have everything cut and dried and without problems. The problem needs to be reduced to the basics. Legal imigrants are legal because they put forth the effort to be so. Illegals don't! Say what you will but that is both fact. We need to strengthen our borders for many reasons. Not just to keep Mexicans out. We also need to fine, and or jail, those who hire illegal aliens....of any race. Illegal is just that, ILLEGAL! We need to let Mexico know, in no uncertain terms, that they need to do their part to police the borders. All this talk about shooting them is ridiculous. Who among you is willing to shoot women and kids? If so then you are a sick individual and should be in jail yourselves. Ever have to kill someone? It's not fun! It's not glorious! It's certainly not sport!!!! And even when justified it haunts you for life if you have a soul at all so shut the h*** up! We have laws for a reason. They are already in place. What's needed is to demand that polititions allow those who's jobs it is to enforce them to be allowed to do so and that they have the eqipment, manpower, and training to do so. Then the judges should be made to do their jobs as well. Where illegal Mexicans are concerned, make Mexico put repeat offenders inMexican prisons. Let them feed them. Hold Mexico responsible for their own people.

I dunno, many Americans used to be able to kill women and kids. And they were not considered sick. You know why? Indians were not considered human, just like Mexicans, blacks, Muslims, democrats and liberals still are not by many here today. Or Germans, Japs, Vietnamese, Koreans, Jews, Gypsys, Turks, and Armenians, were a few decades ago. Or Christians, Southerners, Northerners, etc. The price per Indian scalp was the equivalent of $25K each. And some guys had no problem bringing back infant heads or scalps. Things were different back in the day. Heck, Brits used to do the same to Americans.


Just see 2 posts below.

[Squib]

missouri needs to stop the ukranians from immigrating here, they get a rediculous amount of handouts, while vets get little to none.  also, all the protesting that is going on- anyone who isn't a naturalized citizen has no right to protest/petition, no right to a fair trial, no right to be free of cruel and unusual punishment, no pursuit of happiness, liberty or LIFE.  I honestly don't see why foreigners protesting can't be killed.  sick or not, they need to be silenced.  not american equals not human.

[wreckhog]

missouri needs to stop the ukranians from immigrating here, they get a rediculous amount of handouts, while vets get little to none.  also, all the protesting that is going on- anyone who isn't a naturalized citizen has no right to protest/petition, no right to a fair trial, no right to be free of cruel and unusual punishment, no pursuit of happiness, liberty or LIFE.  I honestly don't see why foreigners protesting can't be killed.  sick or not, they need to be silenced.  not american equals not human.

There you have it......

not american equals not human.

[Spirithawk]

Problem here is that many are looking for easy answers without any drawbacks. You can't always have everything cut and dried and without problems. The problem needs to be reduced to the basics. Legal imigrants are legal because they put forth the effort to be so. Illegals don't! Say what you will but that is both fact. We need to strengthen our borders for many reasons. Not just to keep Mexicans out. We also need to fine, and or jail, those who hire illegal aliens....of any race. Illegal is just that, ILLEGAL! We need to let Mexico know, in no uncertain terms, that they need to do their part to police the borders. All this talk about shooting them is ridiculous. Who among you is willing to shoot women and kids? If so then you are a sick individual and should be in jail yourselves. Ever have to kill someone? It's not fun! It's not glorious! It's certainly not sport!!!! And even when justified it haunts you for life if you have a soul at all so shut the h*** up! We have laws for a reason. They are already in place. What's needed is to demand that polititions allow those who's jobs it is to enforce them to be allowed to do so and that they have the eqipment, manpower, and training to do so. Then the judges should be made to do their jobs as well. Where illegal Mexicans are concerned, make Mexico put repeat offenders inMexican prisons. Let them feed them. Hold Mexico responsible for their own people.

I dunno, many Americans used to be able to kill women and kids. And they were not considered sick. You know why? Indians were not considered human, just like Mexicans, blacks, Muslims, democrats and liberals still are not by many here today. Or Germans, Japs, Vietnamese, Koreans, Jews, Gypsys, Turks, and Armenians, were a few decades ago. Or Christians, Southerners, Northerners, etc. The price per Indian scalp was the equivalent of $25K each. And some guys had no problem bringing back infant heads or scalps. Things were different back in the day. Heck, Brits used to do the same to Americans.


Just see 2 posts below.

I know all too well about that but I get slammed for reminding folks of it. I have ancesters that escaped the Trail Where All Cried and those who died along it. I have close friends who's ancesters died at Wounded Knee. But, you folks keep telling me you've risen above that. Can't blame you for what your ancesters did? Can if you repeat it! Some rights are provided by man....others are given by God. Life is one given by God. If you wish to void it you'd best have a damn good reason.

[Squib]

I don't justify it religiously.  I justify it as defense against foreign invasion.  They do NOT attack with arms but politics, and they aren't american so they are not qualified or required to stand trial.  they should flee or die- but no governor has the resolve to send a helicopter to open fire with a mini-gun.  They have no first amendment rights to complain in any fashion- they are not americans.  Remember that they are stating their cases as FOREIGNERS not americans, and wanting special treatment to add insult to injury.  that is worse than treason and not nearly as complicated- they are foreign agents.  what makes me the most upset is seeing foreign flags- enemy battle standards, and excellent, high-visibility targets for air raids.... going to waste.

[scootrd]

All this talk about shooting them is ridiculous. Who among you is willing to shoot women and kids? If so then you are a sick individual and should be in jail yourselves. Ever have to kill someone? It's not fun! It's not glorious! It's certainly not sport!!!! And even when justified it haunts you for life if you have a soul at all so shut the h*** up!

+1
Thank you  SpiritHawk

[WylieKy]

anyone who isn't a naturalized citizen has no right to protest/petition, no right to a fair trial, no right to be free of cruel and unusual punishment, no pursuit of happiness, liberty or LIFE.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator  with certain unalienable Rights,  that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...

Apparently what our founders found to be self evident, their decedents have to have spelled out.  No where in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution does it reserve any of our protected freedoms for US Citizens only.  As a matter of fact, as said above, they felt that ALL men were endowed with the above unalienable rights.  Unalienable is an interesting word in that it specifies that not only can the rights not be taken away, they can not be given away or sold.  This is off topic, but I find that to be a rather deep and far seeing distinction.

[Victor3]

But, you folks keep telling me you've risen above that. Can't blame you for what your ancesters did? Can if you repeat it!

 Who are these "you folks" you refer to, Spirithawk?

 My Grandparents immigrated to the US from Finland in the early 20th century (due to something having to do with oppression by an occupying force as I recall  ).

 Seeing as how there's nothing to "repeat" in my family history as far as Indians go, do I qualify for a pass on this whole deal or am I screwed due to guilt by association along with them other blue-eyed folks?

[SHOOTALL]

Bottom line is if you don't want kids on the playground then build a fence and lock the gate ! Leaving it open and expecting them to stay out is foolish . And don't blame the kids .

[gypsyman]

50-100-150 years ago, when people came to this country, they assimilated with the people. They didn't come from their home country, hoping that the govt. would take care of them.  All they bought was a good work ethic, and a hope to make better for themselves and family.
That's not what's happening with alot of immigrants now days. Many now come with the intention of have a free life and the govt. taking care of them. Hell, some people that have lived in this country for generations have been doing that for years.
Right now, our govt. is in the process of changing laws so that it will be easier for them. It will only get worse I'm afraid. Unfortunatley, I think there will be bloodshed, just because of the nature of things. gypsyman

[SHOOTALL]

I live in Va. so we don't see the run across the border for free stuff ones . Mostly we see workers with a good work ethic or a few drug dealers also willing to work just at an illegal act.

[beerbelly]

Well lets see now according to you progressives on this board, I guess the Mexican border should be open. Just let them walk in. They should be allowed to vote(as many times as they would like) in any and all elections.
   They should be given welfare , education , social security, health care and any other entitlement you can come up with.
   We certainly should not blame them for breaking our laws and crossing the boarder illegally! After all they are just good hard working people looking to better them self's! The fact that most wind up on some form of welfare is our fault I am sure.
   When they have enough numbers and take back all of the south west for Mexico, hell it's only right, most of the people there will be Mexicans any way!
                                     Beerbelly

[wreckhog]

anyone who isn't a naturalized citizen has no right to protest/petition, no right to a fair trial, no right to be free of cruel and unusual punishment, no pursuit of happiness, liberty or LIFE.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator  with certain unalienable Rights,  that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...

Apparently what our founders found to be self evident, their decedents have to have spelled out.  No where in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution does it reserve any of our protected freedoms for US Citizens only.  As a matter of fact, as said above, they felt that ALL men were endowed with the above unalienable rights.  Unalienable is an interesting word in that it specifies that not only can the rights not be taken away, they can not be given away or sold.  This is off topic, but I find that to be a rather deep and far seeing distinction.

It was implied. Slaves were mentioned as having less rights for example.

[wreckhog]

Well lets see now according to you progressives on this board, I guess the Mexican border should be open. Just let them walk in. They should be allowed to vote(as many times as they would like) in any and all elections.
   They should be given welfare , education , social security, health care and any other entitlement you can come up with.
   We certainly should not blame them for breaking our laws and crossing the boarder illegally! After all they are just good hard working people looking to better them self's! The fact that most wind up on some form of welfare is our fault I am sure.
   When they have enough numbers and take back all of the south west for Mexico, hell it's only right, most of the people there will be Mexicans any way!
                                     Beerbelly

Where do you stand on killing Mexican women and children?

[Dee]

where were slaves mentioned in the Declaration of Independence?

[SHOOTALL]

Same place they mention Native Americans , White folks etc   "ALL MEN "

[Dee]

Where?

[powderman]

where were slaves mentioned in the Declaration of Independence?

They weren't, neither were illegal invaders. POWDERMAN. 

[SHOOTALL]

men is men , people is people

[beerbelly]

Where do you stand on killing Mexican women and children?
 
 
 
If they are invading our country (illegally crossing our border) I have no problem with it! If they stay in their own country we should not bother them.
                                 Beerbelly

[Dee]

anyone who isn't a naturalized citizen has no right to protest/petition, no right to a fair trial, no right to be free of cruel and unusual punishment, no pursuit of happiness, liberty or LIFE.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator  with certain unalienable Rights,  that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...

Apparently what our founders found to be self evident, their decedents have to have spelled out.  No where in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution does it reserve any of our protected freedoms for US Citizens only.  As a matter of fact, as said above, they felt that ALL men were endowed with the above unalienable rights.  Unalienable is an interesting word in that it specifies that not only can the rights not be taken away, they can not be given away or sold.  This is off topic, but I find that to be a rather deep and far seeing distinction.

It was implied. Slaves were mentioned as having less rights for example.

where was it implied?

[beerbelly]

The men that wrote that, did not consider blacks, Indians and other non whites men! They were slave owners them self's. So do you think they included their slaves in that document?
                              Beerbelly

[SHOOTALL]

I don't agree with that . Many taught their slaves to get along as free men and set them free . Not all but many did. Unlike Lincon and the bleeding hearts of the 1950's and since. The people who settled and set up our govt. knew that the slaves and others including immigrant whites  need a learning/education time to be able to take care of themselves in our system. Lincon dumped thousands of slaves on the South with them having few ways to survive at the same time the whites were in the same enomic condition. No wonder there was much friction. Then in the 50'-60's all the Black schools were inter grated with white schools with out a period of bring up the quality of education for the black students so all education was hurt .  No maybe the old guys had it correct.
Keep in mind that most realized that slavery could not last . Our Consitution and Bill of Rights set the stage for granting freedom to all and the founding fathers ment it to be that way.

Beerbelly I just don't agree with you on this one.

[Spirithawk]

But, you folks keep telling me you've risen above that. Can't blame you for what your ancesters did? Can if you repeat it!

 Who are these "you folks" you refer to, Spirithawk?

 My Grandparents immigrated to the US from Finland in the early 20th century (due to something having to do with oppression by an occupying force as I recall  ).

 Seeing as how there's nothing to "repeat" in my family history as far as Indians go, do I qualify for a pass on this whole deal or am I screwed due to guilt by association along with them other blue-eyed folks?

I thought I made it clear when I stated those who keep telling me such.  Since you haven't then that doesn't include you now does it? They don't have to guess, they know perfectly well who they are.

[wreckhog]

where were slaves mentioned in the Declaration of Independence?

WylieKy said Constitution.

Slavery is seen in the Constitution in a few key places. The first is in the Enumeration Clause, where representatives are apportioned. Each state is given a number of representatives based on its population - in that population, slaves, called "other persons," are counted as three-fifths of a whole person. This compromise was hard-fought, with Northerners wishing that slaves, legally property, be uncounted, much as mules and horses are uncounted. Southerners, however, well aware of the high proportion of slaves to the total population in their states, wanted them counted as whole persons despite their legal status. The three-fifths number was a ratio used by the Congress in contemporary legislation and was agreed upon with little debate.

In Article 1, Section 9, Congress is limited, expressly, from prohibiting the "Importation" of slaves, before 1808. The slave trade was a bone of contention for many, with some who supported slavery abhorring the slave trade. The 1808 date, a compromise of 20 years, allowed the slave trade to continue, but placed a date-certain on its survival. Congress eventually passed a law outlawing the slave trade that became effective on January 1, 1808.

The Fugitive Slave Clause is the last mention. In it, a problem that slave states had with extradition of escaped slaves was resolved. The laws of one state, the clause says, cannot excuse a person from "Service or Labour" in another state. The clause expressly requires that the state in which an escapee is found deliver the slave to the state he escaped from "on Claim of the Party."

[powderman]

Slapping the invaders on the wrist doesn't help. Theres no punishment, no price to pay, they are only inconvenienced a bit. Those caught running drugs should be executed on site. Theres nothing to reform, enforce existing laws, make the punishment bad enough they will never WANT to come back, send their kids with them. It's way past time to talk. POWDERMAN. 

[beerbelly]

Shootall, I don't think we agree own much of anything. You seem not to be able to grasp the fact that we are not the problem when it comes to the Mexicans. We are not invading them, they are invading us! The Mexican president said himself that they were taking back Mexican territory one set of foot prints at a time!
   We should mine the border, and shoot any that manage to not blow them self’s up. Round up and deport every last one here illegal'
  It will be much cheaper than putting them on the entitlement rolls! To say nothing of having them vote with the communist and finish destroying this country!
                       Beerbelly

[SHOOTALL]

We agree it should stop ! I just think it can be accomplished with out killing women and children . I think we as a people are better than that . I wonder how long it would be before mines show up to keep Americans from going to certian places ? You do realize in our country police can use bullets with hollow points that are better man stoppers than the ammo we can use on enemy combatants . So any thing we do to others has the potintial to show up here in spades ! Just look at Waco and Ruby Ridge . No one walked up to the door and delivered a warrant first . There are politicans that abuse power here if given the chance .

[beerbelly]

 There are politicans that abuse power here if given the chance

Yes, and they are abusing it right now by not securing our borders!
                               Beerbelly