Author Topic: Fire Starting Methods  (Read 2014 times)

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Offline Swampman

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Fire Starting Methods
« on: July 26, 2010, 02:52:44 PM »
I like knowing how to start fires using different methods but lately I'm thinking if you can't make a fire using only materials you find in the woods, a couple of Bic lighters make more sense than anything else.  Do you really think fire pistons, flint & steel, and items like them make sense?  Are they worth the weight they add to your gear?
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline pab1

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2010, 03:22:05 PM »
Do you really think fire pistons, flint & steel, and items like them make sense?  Are they worth the weight they add to your gear?

IMO they are well worth the added weight. Its always good to know how to start fire with natural materials, but I want to stack the odds in my favor when it comes to starting a fire that might save my own or someone elses life. I like primitive styles of fire starting, especially when I'm hunting with "primitive" weapons. Your right, bic lighters do make sense, but they are not always reliable either and have a limited fuel supply for long term use.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. "
Thomas Paine

Offline Swampman

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2010, 03:45:29 PM »
I suppose I can understand a flint & steel or a lens.  Char has to be made and a fire is required for that.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline pab1

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2010, 04:46:06 PM »
Char has to be made and a fire is required for that.

Char cloth always makes me think of the "chicken or the egg debate.  ;D Flint and steel also works with punk wood and the fungus that grows on birch trees. It just takes a bit more effort than char. My new favorite fire starter is the tinder tube I wrote about in another post.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. "
Thomas Paine

Offline briarpatch

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2010, 05:09:42 PM »
I will  have to agree with Swampman. Matches and a good lighter are hard to beat. Much more versatile, reliable and takes up less space.
However the man that can start a fire when he is standing naked in the woods is very much ahead of the curve.

Offline kyelkhunter3006

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2010, 05:44:26 PM »
I've read that the problem with lighters is that the butane in them "clogs" and doesn't light or burn well in very low temperatures.  I always carry a lighter, matches, and another form of starter.  Kind of redundant, but better to be safe than sorry in that situation.  

I've got a Blast Match fire starter that throws more sparks than an arc welder does.  With the tinder cubes that came with it, I've never failed to start a fire.  They burn HOT and for several minutes,  and will burn while floating on water.  It's a bit bulky compared to the Swedish Fire Steel and other similar rods though.  I'm looking for something else that's smaller and lighter to fix up in a belt kit.

Offline Victor3

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2010, 12:28:09 AM »
Do you really think fire pistons, flint & steel, and items like them make sense? 

 No, but sometimes I like to do things the old way just to enjoy the 'ritual' involved. All that goes out the window when I need something 'sure-fire' right now though. I'm not gonna depend on pencil & paper (flint & steel) for a quick answer to my problem if I have a calculator (Bic lighter) handy.
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline pab1

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2010, 12:18:56 PM »
Victor3, you said it much better than I did.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. "
Thomas Paine

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2010, 12:27:32 PM »
fire started paste is nice also along with the lighter  ;D
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2010, 12:49:22 PM »
Depends on your survival requirements ... naked in the woods indefinitely? Overnight until you walk back to the car? Under a tarp waiting on FEMA? Given I have no idea which situation I will find myself in, I pack the cheapo steel and magnesium bar everywhere.
held fast

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2010, 01:04:13 PM »
I used to work at a boating store.
People would bring in thier out of date safety flares.
I would use them in the camping box.  They are smaller than a road flar and hotter.
I would use them to start charcoal and camp fires.
I keep one (they are also covered in water repellant paper.) in My back pack or camp box depending.
For two reasons.  1 it will get a fire started in the worse wet weather.
2 it can be seen if I need help.
I have had lighters fail in really wet weather, matches, and forget about, flint and steel, magnesium sticks or other methods.
If you want a fire in a hurry the Flare is about the best way to go.  the marine flares do not weigh much and are about a foot long.
I have also found that torch lighters and Bic lighters do not work above 4500 feet.  The orifice is wrong and you are not getting the 16-20% fuel to air ration needed for most gas lighters.  With the air thiner too much gas  is being dumped into the combustion area and will not light.

Offline Swampman

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2010, 01:09:36 PM »
As very good lighter wood is very common in all the areas where I go, I don't worry too much about getting a fire going once I have an ignition source.  I also find that the little dead twigs on the bottom of a Juniper tree will be dry and burn nicely in most any weather.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline briarpatch

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2010, 05:19:01 PM »
TN, either/or. It has been done for thousands of years. The bush men still do it.

Offline briarpatch

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2010, 05:21:11 PM »
Great idea Mcwoodduck, when we were just boys we would walk down the rr track near home and pick up flares. They would burn hot for long time.

Offline mechanic

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2010, 05:43:09 PM »
As very good lighter wood is very common in all the areas where I go, I don't worry too much about getting a fire going once I have an ignition source.  I also find that the little dead twigs on the bottom of a Juniper tree will be dry and burn nicely in most any weather.

Been a LONG time since I've seen a yellow pine, but the stump hearts are still very much available and burn like gasoline.....
Molon Labe, (King Leonidas of the Spartan Army)

Offline TX Devil Doc

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2010, 06:00:17 AM »
If we're talking about a field/survival setting... Vaseline impregnated cotton balls (real cotton, not the synthetic ones) in a waterproof container w/ a magnesium striker and both in a larger container w/ a few slivers of dried wood and waterproof matches.

Seriously, what else would you need? Have you actually considered the amount of energy and time required to do the bow method or even flint and steel? One could better use the time and energy on other tasks such as water, food and shelter. Also, have you tried using a lighter in windy conditions? Even mild winds? Try turning it upside down to get the flame down to your kindling, out of the wind and see how that works for you.

I went out in the field with a friend last year and tried a number of survival techniques, including fire starting techniques that we read or heard others discuss. This included so-called "experts". We were so amazed at the amount of bad ideas there are floating around! The restriction was only ten (10) lbs. max. in our complete pack/duffel bag. This included food, water, first aid, shelter, implements and weapons. We did it under a number of scenarios; windy, wet, little starter fuel, etc. When all were ruled out, we came back to the original idea... Vaseline and cotton balls. Light, compact, nontoxic and easy to use. It can also serve to augment your First Aid kit as it has many uses. I also liked the idea of Purell Hand Sanitizer for the same reasons since it is mostly ethanol/isopropyl alcohol. Dual/multi-use products like zinc oxide are valuable in the field for obvious reasons. Zinc oxide can be used for many things including making a temporary filling.

If we're discussing a situation where we're camping out and the truck is nearby... gasoline and the remainder of my lit cigar butt. Works every time.
The secrets to life? It’s faster horses, younger women, older whiskey and more money! 

Offline scootrd

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2010, 06:41:34 AM »
I  carry strike anywhere matches, a small compass , some fishing line , hooks ,etc.. in a small pouch in my backpack every time I head out,  

But I gotta tell ya my vintage storm Master lighter never ever not lit to start a fire ..even in extreme windy conditions. !!!!!
Lights on first or second strike , even out performs my Military Zippo.
Never had to go to the matches.
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
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Offline TX Devil Doc

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2010, 07:53:00 AM »
Scootrd,

What would you use if you found yourself out of lighter fluid?
The secrets to life? It’s faster horses, younger women, older whiskey and more money! 

Offline jrnsuz

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2010, 09:37:33 AM »
Scootrd, where are you getting the strike anywhere matches? I've been hoarding my last box for about 6 years now( and haven't seen Ohio Bluetips since J.C. was a L/CPL)
" It's not the dope on the rifle, it's the dope behind it! " GySgt Harrison

Offline gofish

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2010, 11:27:24 AM »
I got some strike anyware matches at the local groc. store in Spring Valley MN. Try small towns when travling.

Can't spell very gook but shoot OK!

Offline scootrd

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2010, 08:24:30 PM »
Scootrd,

What would you use if you found yourself out of lighter fluid?

I would use my strike anywhere matches
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant

Offline scootrd

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2010, 08:26:05 PM »
Scootrd, where are you getting the strike anywhere matches? I've been hoarding my last box for about 6 years now( and haven't seen Ohio Bluetips since J.C. was a L/CPL)

The brand we have here in NorthEast are DIAMOND 250 count to a box.
Up hear you can pick 'em up just about anywhere.
I use to have an old suvival knife when I was a kid (first knife I ever bought)
The knife was junk but as a Kid I felt like Jim Bowie wearing it.

I just searched the web , too funny ...couldn't believe it they still sell them . (I got use to carrying hooks line , compass , matches etc) cause of this knife I carried as a kid.  http://www.armynavyshop.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?store_code=army-navy-shop&screen=PROD&product_code=rc3230

 

"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant

Offline myronman3

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2010, 09:59:32 AM »
i love my lighters, but what happens when they are out of fuel?  my zippo fuel evaporates after a while.  having an alternate method of starting a fire is always a great idea. 

Offline Swampman

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2010, 10:50:49 AM »
2 lighters are better than a lighter and something else.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline teddy12b

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2010, 11:07:08 AM »
In an emergency kit I have an altoid tin with a small bic lighter & lots of the windproof matches in it.  I also keep a lot of vaseline soaked pieces of organic rope cut at 2" long in a ziplock in that altoid container.  Gives me several different methods of starting a fire if I need to.  The pieces of rope covered in vaseline light up like a candle wick and burn for plenty of time to get a fire started if you're already got something ready.  They burn long enough dry out something damp enough to start burning on it's own.  I prefer the smaller bics over the larger ones because they put out a longer flame.  Just a little something I picked up while trying to light a cigarette in a sandstorm.  :)

Offline don heath

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2010, 08:02:11 PM »
Swampman...last year we were discussing this and a forum member mentioned carrying thermite...I have tried it and it works very well. I always carry fire fudge because I can always get it to light..basic version you add acid, new improved version add water!

I am also learning than most Northern woods like pine, beech and oak are one heck of alot easier to light than our run of the mill (hard) woods that we have available...it doesn't rain that often and I very seldom have to make a fire in the rain...except when something has gone wrong.

Perhaps for me, a lightweight, 'tinder' is as important as actual method- hexamine tabs like I have still seen on sale in the USA for the little fold up tin camp stoves, 'wet tinder' etc ...anything so that If I can get a spark, I have a hot flame that will ignight a hardwood fire that has been badly laid and is wet. 

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2010, 05:30:29 AM »
That Bic lighter is my first source of fire. It's been so long since it failed me I wonder why I continue to carry the metal match, likely the memory of wet matches. I made a kit a long time ago, match, tinder, and a bit of steel wool. It just gets thrown into the pack no questions asked.
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Offline scootrd

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2010, 12:03:43 PM »
i love my lighters, but what happens when they are out of fuel?  my zippo fuel evaporates after a while.  having an alternate method of starting a fire is always a great idea.  
what ? -  nobody carries Extra lighter fluid ? :)
One of the worst skin Burn/rashes I ever got was when I filled my Zippo to full and it leaked in my blue Jean front pocket while I was driving cross country in the sun. I couldn't get out of the car fast enough. Pulled lighter out and ended up having to drive in shorts rest of the way... Skin was raw. 
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant

Offline Rex in OTZ

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2010, 12:38:50 PM »
Ive used my Honda ATv to light a couple camp fires (Hand full of damp dead growth grass hold it till it glows)and in a pinch light my cigars off the header pipe right where it comes off the head.

Offline Casull

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Re: Fire Starting Methods
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2010, 12:54:07 PM »
Quote
2 lighters are better than a lighter and something else.

+1
Aim small, miss small!!!