.45/70-Hard Cast Newbie Questions

[Rummer]

I recently picked up a guide gun and I'm thinking of shooting cast bullets.

I'm looking for an all-around bullet that would be good for deer, black bear and possibly hogs.

I was thinking that a 405gr Hard Cast might be the way to go.

Is there a minimum velocity for use on game?  A minimum meplat size?

How fast can you push a Hard Cast before you get barrel leading?

Thanks.

JCR

[GH1]

 Leading is a tricky subject, and unfortunately there's not a universal answer.  Leading is a function of bullet fit, bullet hardness, bullet type, and velocity.  Too slow can produce leading just as easily as too fast. The reason for this is if not enough pressure is generated to expand the base of the bullet and seal the bore(obturation), gasses will get past the base and cause leading. I experienced this with my .357.  Conversely, too hot of a charge will melt the base and cause leading.  If a bullet is too sloppy in the bore it will leak.  If a bullet is too hard for the velocity you're trying to shoot it won't obturate properly, causing leading.  If a bullet is too soft it won't hold the pressure properly and will lead.
So to make a long story short, you'll have to play with your charges and tailor the for YOUR gun.  Hopefully some 45-70 shooters will offer more advice than I can give.
As far as what type of bullet, I think a cast SWC will do the deed for you.
GH1

[Larry Gibson]

Rummer link

I recently picked up a guide gun and I'm thinking of shooting cast bullets.

Good for you

I'm looking for an all-around bullet that would be good for deer, black bear and possibly hogs.

I was thinking that a 405gr Hard Cast might be the way to go.

Up for discussion on which is better; hard cast or softer cast providing expansion and thus better terminal effect.  I prefer the latter and use a .50/50 alloy of WW/lead for hunting bullets.  I clean the barrel every 5-7 rounds for best accuracy.  That is okay for a hunting bullet as that many shots should be all that is needed.  I use GC'd bullets also for hunting bullets. Penetration is not an issue with such bullets either as some may speculate.  If you decide to go hard cast get a true flat based bullet for best accuracy over 1600 fps.  For practice I use WWs + 2% tin and water quench out of the mould. I can shoot those all day long without cleaning and accuracy remains content.

Is there a minimum velocity for use on game?

No "minimum" that I know of but for hunting I like to use the highest velocity consistent with accuracy.

 A minimum meplat size?

Since I like to use expanding bullets and expect hunting accuracy and performance to 200 yards I use bullets with normal meplats.  I've had accuracy issues with some really WFN'd bullets at longer ranges.  For hunting I find bullets such as the RCBS 45-300-FN, the 45-4-5-FN, and the Saeco 350 gr #017 to be the current GC'd bullets of choice.  In PB the Lee457-340-F, the 457-405-F, the Lyman 457193 or the 457 643 and the Saeco 405 gr #018 to be excellent choices.  There are of course numerous custom designs for the Marlin available also. 

How fast can you push a Hard Cast before you get barrel leading?

Leading isn't the issue as someone mentioned if a good lube such as Javelina is used.  I use that because it works well in colder weather when hunting seasons are.  Many of the harder lubes don't work well in colder temperatures..  The real issue is one of accuracy.  I've found most all bevel based bullets, even when cast really hard, don't shoot best over 1600 fps (not a bad hunting velocity for a 400 gr FN bullet BTW).  A true flat based bullet is need above that for best accuracy.  Of course a GC'd 350 - 400 gr bullet works upwards of as fast as you can, or will want to,  push them.

Larry Gibson

[jhalcott]

Are YOU going to do the casting or buy the bullets? IF you cast them they can be a LOT softer and work even better than bought bullets. MOST production casters HAVE to make them harder than neccessary to with stand the rough treatment the bullets get in transit. Also they use a cheaper lube for better profits. You can cast them as soft as 20 parts lead to one part tin (20to1) or even softer. I use wheel weight alloy and a gas check, Lee liquid alox and smokeless powder to get 1800 fps in a BOLT rifle or 1400 fps in my 45-70 14" contrender. I have several  molds from 300 FNGC to 500RNGC to choose from. For my BLACK powder loads I use a lube made from beeswax and sheep fat. Your area MAY have a minimum energy requirement for hunting use. So check your hunting laws.

[Darrell Davis]

Well after years of loading and hunting with my own loads, and using jacketed bullets, I decided about the last thing I could do in the ammo production department was to cast my own boolits for hunting.

I am currently working with a RUGER #1-s in 45/70, and a new LBT. 350gr WFN, gas check boolit.

This rifle has a very nice bore, and loads in the 2100 - 2200fps range are only leaving a slight trace of lead in the bore, while using air cooled WW.

Veral Smith makes nice molds, and that big meplat should leak a lot of blood, from both sides of a critter.

I am set to test a couple of different lubes, and may go to water quenched WW just to see if the groups shrink a bit.

Keep em coming!

CDOC