45LC or 45/70

[6Covered]

I'm getting ready to buy my next Handi.  I've been set on a 45/70 after
hearing what everyone has said about them.
It would be the 22" barrel gun. I have no experience with them.

Now I am waffeling a bit.  The Classic Carbine in 45LC looks tempting.

I will be using this gun for plinking.  Probably never hunt with it.  

I am somewhat recoil sensitive.

I hand load.

Stay with the original thought...45/70 or take a hard look at the 45LC.

You guys that have both, what are the  +/-  of both?

Thanks,

Jon

[quickdtoo]

The best answer is both, just figure out which to get first! I'd seriously consider the CR-45 Carbine first since CDNN has em on sale for $229.99, H&R isn't making any more supposedly, get em while you can. 

Tim

[tacklebury]

I'm getting ready to buy my next Handi.  I've been set on a 45/70 after
hearing what everyone has said about them.
It would be the 22" barrel gun. I have no experience with them.

Now I am waffeling a bit.  The Classic Carbine in 45LC looks tempting.

I will be using this gun for plinking.  Probably never hunt with it.  

I am somewhat recoil sensitive.

I hand load.

Stay with the original thought...45/70 or take a hard look at the 45LC.

You guys that have both, what are the  +/-  of both?

Thanks,

Jon

I'd have to go with the Colt.  I have both and unless you are hunting at > 200 yard range, there's really little gained by the extra powder of the .45-70.  I love my BC, but in all honesty, I don't see that much difference.  Especially using RL7 with the colt for the longer barrel.  Plus if you don't get a .45 Colt soon, the only thing left will be occasional used guns.  Might be a good opportunity at that price.  I think on sale through Davidson's I paid $265 for mine with tax, so the CDNN price is really pretty good.  If you choose the colt, let us know.  I can also give you a bunch of loads I've tested thus far as can many others here I'm sure.  Happy decision making.

[kevinsmith5]

Much as I love the 45-70 I'd have to say you should get the .45 Colt. It's going away and a better "plinker".

[Mike in Virginia]

Consider the maximum hunting shots you've taken.  Here in the Blue Ridge, I never get a shot beyond 50 yards.  A 45LC is more than plenty, lighter to carry, easy to reload, easy to carry.  That said, a Handi 45/70 BC is a nice looking gun and lots of fun at the range. 

[Swampman]

I'd get the .45 Colt because it's cheap and send the receiver back for a .45-70 barrel.

[tacklebury]

Much as I love the 45-70 I'd have to say you should get the .45 Colt. It's going away and a better "plinker".

Yep, with 6 gr. unique and my 200 gr. RFNLBB bullets, it costs me about $0.13 per round.  Plus with the plinker load, I don't even hardly reform the cases.    My hunting loads are 9 gr. unique and a 300 gr. XTP Mag or a 255gr. LSWC and cost only about $0.18 for the 255's and about $.33 for the 300's.  These group 2-3" at 100 yards with the factory sights.  I intend to upgrade to a Henry Ladder reproduction sight unmarked, so I can do my own engraving of ranges once I pick my hunting round.  

edit* I am also going to work up some FTX loads before I make my final decision on hunting load.  I've been hearing very good things about these ballistically and even slight gains in velocity without extra powder and I like them in the .45-70.  

[mcwoodduck]

I would get the 45 Colt.

here is why.
The 45 colt can be reloaded for cheaper than the 45-70.
45 Colt is about $35 for 50 and 45-70 is $20 for 20 rounds for cowboy loads.  Almost 50% more bangs for the bucks.
The 45 Colt can be loaded to 45 Schofield levels.  180 to 200 grain bullets at less than 700 FPS.  Pop -----------Bing!
The 45 Colt can be loaded to 44 Mag speeds easy and the recoil is not, well you know you shot a hunting round but it is NOT unpleasant.
The 45 Colt Buffalo bore rounds can be as hot or more than the 44 Mag.
The 45 Colt can go from ultra mild to holly cow wild if you ream the gun out to 454 or 460 S&W.
The 454 can almost douplicate the 45-70 with a 300 grain bullet.
Since you are recoil sensitve.  The mag versions of the 45-70 are not what you want. And cowboy loads are still more potend than the Colt loads.  Big recoil difference between a 405 grain bullet at 1300 FPs and a 250 grain bullet at 900 FPS.

[tacklebury]

Much as I love the 45-70 I'd have to say you should get the .45 Colt. It's going away and a better "plinker".

Yep, with 6 gr. unique and my 200 gr. RFNLBB bullets, it costs me about $0.13 per round.  Plus with the plinker load, I don't even hardly reform the cases.    My hunting loads are 9 gr. unique and a 300 gr. XTP Mag or a 255gr. LSWC and cost only about $0.18 for the 255's and about $.33 for the 300's.  These group 2-3" at 100 yards with the factory sights.  I intend to upgrade to a Henry Ladder reproduction sight unmarked, so I can do my own engraving of ranges once I pick my hunting round.  

edit* I am also going to work up some FTX loads before I make my final decision on hunting load.  I've been hearing very good things about these ballistically and even slight gains in velocity without extra powder and I like them in the .45-70.  

I forgot to mention using Reloader7 from the carbine platform is also a good way to get higher power loads which still are moderatei in recoil.  I've done some H-110 loads, but am not getting as good performance as with the RL7, so it's another nice powder.

[Spanky]

The 454 can almost douplicate the 45-70 with a 300 grain bullet.

How??
The 454 has less than half the 45-70's case capacity.
Lee's 2nd edition shows the 45-70 besting the 454 by 1000 fps. with 300gr. bullets.
That's like comparing a Ford Ranger to an F350.



Spanky

[dpe.ahoy]

A good stout handload can equal the factory 45-70 load (300gr).  Yes I know, the 45-70 can beat it hands down by handloading.  The OP said probably never hunt with it, mostly plink.  Go with the 45 Colt.  Then if you ever want a 45-70 they are always around.  DP

[mcwoodduck]

The 454 can almost douplicate the 45-70 with a 300 grain bullet.

How??
The 454 has less than half the 45-70's case capacity.
Lee's 2nd edition shows the 45-70 besting the 454 by 1000 fps. with 300gr. bullets.
That's like comparing a Ford Ranger to an F350.



Spanky

Standard 45-70 300 grain JHP load is 1880 FPS (Win / Fed factory)  Based on a 20" barrel
Standard Pistol 300 Frain JHP load is 1353 out of a pistol.  6" barrel.  Add 14" more to the barrel.
When we were shooting the 45-70, 300 grain out of a 7.5" BFR were getting 1275 + - 15 Fps  Sound about the same to me out of a pistol figured if you add the 13" to the 454 you would end up with similar speeds.  Even if it was 100 to 150 feet slower out of the same barrel length it will still kill game and the deer, black bear, or hog will never know it was a 454 and not a 45-70.
Also the case volume of the 45-70 is that big to hold 70 grains of Black Powder and a big 405 grain bullet.  the 45 Colt hold 40 grains and a 250 grain bullet.  But the 45-70 does not use full use of it's volume in factory loads, the 454 does.   Reloads or mag loads in the 45-70 are a different story they touch the bottom end of 458 Win Mag.
More like comparing a F150 to an F350 both with the same engine, Same class differnt payload capabilities.

[tacklebury]

The 454 has less than half the 45-70's case capacity.  Lee's 2nd edition shows the 45-70 besting the 454 by 1000 fps. with 300gr. bullets.

One thing to keep in mind is that most of the data for the Colt / Casull is based on pistol length revolvers.  I've found that often you get much improved performance with the longer barrel on the carbine.  Using rifle powder especially.  With the 25 gr Reloader7 and the 300 XTP Magnum HP, you easily can take deer to 150 or 200 yards.  Same probably goes for a 300 Gr. Gas checked flatpoint lead.  I am not saying anyway that it's equal, just closer than those numbers show to my knowledge.

[Spanky]

I ain't sayin' the 454 is bad... it's definitely bad bad news for anything it's pointed at. The 45-70 just has too much case capacity for the 454 to keep up if you crank up some stiff loads.

Given the choice of the OP... I'd pick the 45 too. I think the 45 is the best lookin' gun the company puts out.



Spanky

[mcwoodduck]

I ain't sayin' the 454 is bad... it's definitely bad bad news for anything it's pointed at. The 45-70 just has too much case capacity for the 454 to keep up if you crank up some stiff loads.

Given the choice of the OP... I'd pick the 45 too. I think the 45 is the best lookin' gun the company puts out.



Spanky

Did not think you were, putting down the 454.
Your point was valaid and looking at loading data there is a huge Difference between the Pistol data and the rifle data.
I wish some loading data would show what the diff factory loads will do when fired out of a 20" barrel and allow you to look at differnt loads.
And most actions can not take what the 45-70 is capable if doing.
By what the Op said I don't think he will even want to shoot the hot 45 Colts let alone the 454 Cas.
And I agree the 45 Colt is a great looking rifle.   

[6Covered]

Guys -

Thanks for all the great coments and thoughts.  Guess I'll have to go to school on the
45LC.  I know very little about it.  From what I read here though it will be the 45.

My plan is to send the gun back to H&R and have it a .357 barrel fitted.  Want to do
that over the winter so we'll have a toy next spring.  This will be for the grandkids
mostly shooting .38s.

'Preciate your help.

Jon

[MSP Ret]

I suggest the 45-70 over the .45 LC. There has never been a problem with the 45-70 and everyone should have one (at least!!). There have been some problems with the 45 LC's with oversize chambers and tight bores. Besides EVERYONE needs a 45-70 Handi....<><....

[Swampman]

The 454 can almost douplicate the 45-70 with a 300 grain bullet.

How??
The 454 has less than half the 45-70's case capacity.
Lee's 2nd edition shows the 45-70 besting the 454 by 1000 fps. with 300gr. bullets.
That's like comparing a Ford Ranger to an F350.



Spanky

The .45-70 isn't nearly as hard on the gun either.

[dangerranger]

I own both, and if it were just for plinking Id go with the 45colt. you also say you are just a little recoil shy, the 45lc in its cowboy loads recoils about like a 22magnum. with full house loads it will kick a little more. the 45 70 starts out with a decent recoil and goes up from there quickly. just my 2c. DR

[Lefty Dude]

With some .457 round balls a little Unique powder = lots of cheap shootin-fun in a 45-70.

[Doublebass73]

It's a toss up, both are very cool old cartridges. I went with the 45 Colt because I have a bad shoulder and the 45 Colt out of a rifle is plenty for deer at the ranges I hunt at.

[Dixie Dude]

You can also ream it out to .460 SW, for even more ump than the .454 for hunting.  Drop back to 45 LC for smaller game and plinking. 

[petemi]

It's kind of a funny thing.  We measure our rifles by deer at varying distances.  We're all guilty of it.  I've got soooooo many unblooded "deer rifles" just now.  If I got one tag a year and had good luck, it'd take me 15 years to let each get a deer.....I'd be 85.

More practically, my short guns, the .45 carbine and .357 Maxi shortie are the ones that ride in the truck with me and do the work around the farm.

Personally, I'd get the .45 colt first because the price is right, a .357 and then the .45-70.  My .45-70 was my first Handi, and is probably still my favorite.  I was shooting a load thru the chrony with it yesterday to fill in some load data here for a guy and amazed myself by shooting through the Chrony and smacking the 300 yard gong offhand.  Oh, it was 405 gr. at 1929 fps.  To me, that is formidable.  Getting whacked by that on the business end could ruin your day;D

Pete

[tacklebury]

With some .457 round balls a little Unique powder = lots of cheap shootin-fun in a 45-70.

Yes it is.  I have gotten a pretty good process with these and get decent accuracy out to 50 yards and can still hit the 10x10 100 yard gong at the range I shoot at.  It shifts my POI about 6" to the right and down 3 at that range, but still consistent enoug to bag woodchucks.   I'm actually loading up some 3 gr. Unique Colt loads with .451 balls to try out too.  I figure I will carry some ball loads during deer season in case I see no deer and one of those fat juicy fox squirrels sit there tempting me again.  hehe

[jlwilliams]

Unless I missed it, no one has pointed out that the 45lc would give you the option of getting a companion revolver.  When it comes to plinking fun, it's hard to beat a rifle and a handgun that both get fed from one box of ammo.  It's fun and economical.

[tacklebury]

Unless I missed it, no one has pointed out that the 45lc would give you the option of getting a companion revolver.  When it comes to plinking fun, it's hard to beat a rifle and a handgun that both get fed from one box of ammo.  It's fun and economical.

That's what I have a Ruger New Model Blackhawk Convertible in 5.5" barrel length.  Also gives me the flexibility of shooting .45 ACP which is readily available off the shelf and cheaper to reload for plinking. 

[Lefty Dude]

With some .457 round balls a little Unique powder = lots of cheap shootin-fun in a 45-70.

Yes it is.  I have gotten a pretty good process with these and get decent accuracy out to 50 yards and can still hit the 10x10 100 yard gong at the range I shoot at.  It shifts my POI about 6" to the right and down 3 at that range, but still consistent enoug to bag woodchucks.   I'm actually loading up some 3 gr. Unique Colt loads with .451 balls to try out too.  I figure I will carry some ball loads during deer season in case I see no deer and one of those fat juicy fox squirrels sit there tempting me again.  hehe

With the .451 balls, paper-patch the balls. Just take some good quality paper in a 1 1/2" square, wet the paper and twist the paper around the ball. Let this dry, then cut off the tail. load with the tail cut down.

[gendoc]

I suggest the 45-70 over the .45 LC. There has never been a problem with the 45-70 and everyone should have one (at least!!). There have been some problems with the 45 LC's with oversize chambers and tight bores. Besides EVERYONE needs a 45-70 Handi....<><....

thas what i'm talk'n bout !!!  it'll reach out an touch sumfin up close and far away

[Handi-Fan]

 Just by them both, ah heck buyem all. But, I tend to like my 45 colt although it's not a handi. Petemi you only get one tag a year....... How can you stand it I live in S.C. depending on where you hunt you can harvest up to 10 a season, yea ten plus I get depredation permits that means even more. Why me and momma would starve on 1 tag. And I just hate them mismeal cramps

[gendoc]

man, you gotta have a coupla big freezers for all that meat !!!!
we are also limited in our bag limits, which don't make a hole lotta since...
we are over run with whitetail and i have recently seen them in subdivisions
on the front porch of some homes eating flowers from pots. just walk'n around like they own tha place !!!
which they did awhile back.