Author Topic: decriminalize Marijuana?  (Read 4642 times)

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Offline buck460XVR

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #90 on: August 04, 2010, 05:02:48 PM »
I say as I look at my plate of mashed taters and sawmill gravy.
Opinion cannot make it safe or dangerous--people do and will.
Guns are not dangerous but people are.
Legislating people not to be dangerous is, well, magic of the mind and the plant still grows.
If you wish to make it a moral judgement--I refer back to my plate of mashed taters and sawmill gravy.
Blessings


Damn William, I swear you're stoned right now..........I can almost visualize you.... overcome with a bad case of the munchies....... scarfin' down those taters and gravy. ;D


Legalize possession and the growth for private use up to a reasonable amount. Have state run cannabis shops for those who prefer to buy or partake of a flavor other than thier own.  Same rules and restrictions apply for cannabis as for alcohol. This includes DWI and prohibitive use by minors. Let the cops go back to fighting real crimes committed by real criminals..
"where'd you get the gun....son?"

Offline WylieKy

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #91 on: August 04, 2010, 05:48:22 PM »

Why bother with the vices at all?


Why bother with icing on your cake, salt on your taters, or foreplay?



What is wrong with choosing to maintain a fully functional mind?


Nothing.  I never said there was.  There is also nothing wrong with being a vegan, it's just not the path I enjoy most.    I completely respect an individuals right to abstain. 
This that I do, I do by my own free will.

Offline saddlebum

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #92 on: August 05, 2010, 01:58:08 AM »
Go figure.......
" FIREARMS STAND NEXT IN IMPORTANCE TO THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF. THEY ARE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S LIBERTY TEETH AND KEYSTONE UNDER INDEPENDENCE."       George Washington

“OUR CONSTITUTION WAS MADE ONLY FOR A MORAL AND RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. IT IS WHOLLY INADEQUATE TO THE GOVERNMENT OF ANY OTHER."           John Adams

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #93 on: August 05, 2010, 03:13:22 AM »
So what level will we set for stoned driving and how will we test for it? Will DOT drop the requirement for random drug testing for marijuanna? What will be the ok level of THC in the bloodstream be for pilots, engineers and truck drivers?

like booze 0%
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline billy_56081

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #94 on: August 05, 2010, 03:51:36 AM »
So what level will we set for stoned driving and how will we test for it? Will DOT drop the requirement for random drug testing for marijuanna? What will be the ok level of THC in the bloodstream be for pilots, engineers and truck drivers?

like booze 0%

Your answer on booze is incorrect. .02% and over is DWI in a commercial vehicle.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #95 on: August 05, 2010, 03:59:21 AM »
guess that depends on the state
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline billy_56081

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #96 on: August 05, 2010, 04:07:42 AM »
No shootall you are wrong again, the DOT is federal law. Once again you speak of things of which you do not know. I am just wondering what will be the limit they set for THC in the bloodstream.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #97 on: August 05, 2010, 04:12:53 AM »
In Virginia we also have VDOT and like with OSHA we have VOSHA . Both are adminstrated by Virginia and must meet or EXCEED federal regulation and law and in many cases they do. Remember we are a commonwealth not a state  ;D
IE; in Va. the law can be more strengent it just can't be less.
I suggest in high level positions like you noted there will be none allowed at least in the begining .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline billy_56081

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #98 on: August 05, 2010, 04:55:43 AM »
VDOT, MNDOT or any other state DOT has absolutly zero regulatory power over the railroad or airlines what so ever.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #99 on: August 05, 2010, 05:11:16 AM »
True , so whats your point ? you brought up DOT . Once more I offer 0% . To open the use of a once illegal drug will require a safety margin with no room to fail. I would think you can use it but not if you have a job that requires you to be 100% . Some jobs won't allow over the counter drug use within 24 hours of going to work. Booze was here long before many of the jobs we have today were even jobs. We have done a poor job of protecting the public from drunkness on the jobsite . We would have a chance to do it right this time and in some cases rethink the booze law. Maybe if you fly a commerical plane you get tested every flight . Seems good to me .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline williamlayton

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #100 on: August 05, 2010, 06:58:21 AM »
It disturbes me that one would catagorize any/all who have enjoyed the use of MJ as a person that desires a crutch to live.
As an old doper--it was just a fun way to relax----much as a six pack/single malt/wine ---or a plate of taters and sawmill gravy.
Crutch as a handle is tanamount to delcaring any who drink as a derilect to society---shades of Carrie Mason.
What about folks who eat/drink coffee or cola and drive---using a cell phone also---they are doing anything but driving.
A comedian once observed she would rather be on the raod with a drunk than a person eating a hamburger (taking on a phone), at least they were trying to drive.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline WylieKy

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #101 on: August 05, 2010, 09:12:20 AM »
The reason airlines are so concerned about alcohol consumption is that alcohol becomes increasingly potent as pressure decreases.  The lower the pressure, the lower the blood O2 saturation, the more inflated the intoxication, as alcohol works by decreasing the red blood cells ability to carry O2 around the body.  A person can be stone cold sober at sea level and drunk as a monkey at 30K feet even with pressurized cabins.

This is all moot to the point though, as part of the legalization process is determining what a reasonable level of intoxication is for a given activity.  I agree with SHOOTALL in that for driving, heavy machinery, first responders, medical personnel, on duty military and police, etc.... it should be 0%.  Those people using is NOT responsible.  Partaking while hanging with my friends on a Friday night is no more or less responsible than than not using.  I don't advocate the whole sale stoneification of America ala A Brave New World, but the responsible use should not be illegal.
This that I do, I do by my own free will.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #102 on: August 05, 2010, 12:38:53 PM »
Ahh Wyley are you flying around in a biplane? Airliners have pressurised cabins. If they didn't you wouldn't have to worry about being stone cold drunk, you would be stone cold DEAD!
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline WylieKy

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #103 on: August 05, 2010, 01:23:37 PM »

The reason airlines are so concerned about alcohol consumption is that alcohol becomes increasingly potent as pressure decreases.  The lower the pressure, the lower the blood O2 saturation, the more inflated the intoxication, as alcohol works by decreasing the red blood cells ability to carry O2 around the body.  A person can be stone cold sober at sea level and drunk as a monkey at 30K feet even with pressurized cabins.


Oh Billy...  As usual, you spout off on any given subject without knowing what you're talking about.  Or even reading the person's post.  Or even really thinking about the subject at hand.  Ever wonder why your ears pop on an airplane?  Here's a hint: It has to do with a decrease in cabin pressure.   ;)
At 30-39000 feet an airplane would explode if kept at sea-level PSI.  Elevations over 9800 feet is where serious medical complications start occurring.  Most commercial airlines keep pressure at an equivalent of just under 7,000 feet.  Even at 7,000 feet many passengers experience a mild shortness of breath. 
This that I do, I do by my own free will.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #104 on: August 05, 2010, 01:36:28 PM »
Hmm Wyley my biplane flying friend. I have many times had a drink or 4 at the airport before boarding an airplane I must not have noticed how wasted I got as the plane climbed. I'm sure my plain old common sence and experience has been shared by hundreds of other members here. Heck I never even got wasted out of my mind when we had a couple of beers with dinner before we went up to Pikes Peak. Dude you are whacked, and they say weed don't hurt the brain. 

Like I said what will be the tolerable legal level for THC in the bloodstream? If zero then most regular users will never be able to operate machinery or drive a car.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline WylieKy

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #105 on: August 05, 2010, 02:43:52 PM »
http://www.studentpilot.com/articles/medical_articles/article.php?medical_id=19

Quote

The effect of alcohol is greatly multiplied when a person is exposed to altitude. ... For the pilot, then, the lower oxygen availability at altitude, along with the lower capability of his brain (under the influence of alcohol) to use what oxygen is there; adds up to a deadly combination.


Sorry, Billy. I'll stop confusing you with facts.  Maybe you have an unusually high tolerance for alcohol?  It's not unusual in people who have drinking problems.  4 drinks you say?  And again, metabolized THC causes no intoxication.  So, within a few hours of consuming THC people would be able to drive a car, operate machinery, etc.... 
This that I do, I do by my own free will.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #106 on: August 05, 2010, 05:52:37 PM »
Again my biplane flying friend, this is in an unpressurised aircraft. Duhhh!

What I have been asking is and I understand that common sence and the ability to know things from personal experiences is probably out of your realm. A person that is a regular smoker of marijuana has traces of it in his or her system for weeks. So how do we tell if the concentration and what consentration is impairing? How do we test? If I smoked a joint tonight, and was in an accident in the morning in a commercial vehicle would I be considered impared? What about someone who smokes regularly and has an accident even after the night to morning refrain that persons concentration would be much higher, would they be impaired? I am just asking how we will test and enforce saftey rules. Will all commercial drivers still have zero tolerance, not be able to use a legal substance? If this be the case would someone who showed THC in thier body after a fatal acident be charged with vehicular homocide?
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline WylieKy

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #107 on: August 05, 2010, 07:26:07 PM »

Again my biplane flying friend, this is in an unpressurised aircraft. Duhhh!


No, it's not.  Airlines do not pressurize aircraft to sea level.  They pressurize to the equivalent of +/- 7000 feet.  (If they pressurized to sea level, you're ears wouldn't pop on ascent and descent.)  I went through ground school with AFROTC, I know what I'm talking about.  To put that in perspective, Denver, Co is around 5000 feet and there is a trip advisory about alcohol consumption in Denver for non-natives.  Clearly you have internet access....google it.... or better yet.... here you go.  

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g33388-i253-k728559-Effects_of_altitude_on_alcohol_consumption-Denver_Colorado.html

I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or just get so locked onto an idea that you don't pay attention to what the person has written.  

You're right about THC levels though.  It would be hard to tell if someone was high from just smoking a joint or had metabolized THC in their system from a week ago.

Edit: Never mind, thy have it all figured out already.

Quote

Mathematical models have been developed to estimate the time of marijuana exposure within a 95% confidence interval. Knowing the elapsed time from marijuana exposure can then be used to predict impairment in concurrent cognitive and psychomotor effects based on data in the published literature.


http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/job185drugs/cannabis.htm
This that I do, I do by my own free will.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #108 on: August 06, 2010, 03:16:15 PM »
Obviously neither of you has any personal experience with having a few drinks before boarding a flight on a PRESSURISED aircraft. I would be willing to bet there is hundreds if not thousands of members here on GBO that have had a couple of drinks before boarding and aircraft and were not totally wasted when the aircraft reached altitude. DUHHH!

Are you guys living in your mommys basements?
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline WylieKy

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #109 on: August 06, 2010, 08:16:24 PM »
Yep.  Trolling. No one is that dense.
This that I do, I do by my own free will.

Offline williamlayton

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #110 on: August 07, 2010, 12:46:49 AM »
The point to make and be understood is:
People have a tendency to do whatsoever it is they want to do.
Do some kill theirownselves with drugs? Yes!
Do some smoke dope and continue to function as citizens? Yes!
Do accidents happen when people are on drugs/drunk? YES! AND they should be held accountable for those actions.
NOW! Do folks have wrecks while they are driving, completely sober-----Well of course they do! Now are we to say that is acceptable because they are not under the influence ?
Folks---Well, life is life. It is not fair. It should not be taken as an example of perfection and people are not going to act with perfection.
Folks are flawed---well except me :P :-*--and I surely don't hold it against you others who are not so perfect .
Think about it---what are you saying---be careful about what you pray for.
How are you going to stop something you can't stop.
I know! Let's just kill everybody and let the Lord figure it out. Yea! Right!
Is it good to smoke dope/sin/immoral---Heck, I don't know. It is a relaxing way to pass some time.
If I did it and killed someone I would have to own up to it just like everybody else.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline beerbelly

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #111 on: August 07, 2010, 05:40:34 AM »
I have not been on a air-plane in some time, but back n the 60' and 70's , once the plane got to cruising altitude, you could order a mixed drink in flight. I don't remember any one getting falling down drunk on a few drinks in flight. I guess everyone I flew with were folks that could handle a lot of booze.

                                      Beerbelly

Offline williamlayton

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #112 on: August 07, 2010, 09:31:53 AM »
All the folks I know who can handle a lot of booze--can't.
Come on boys.
Blessings
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #113 on: August 07, 2010, 11:10:02 AM »
What tweedle dee and tweedle dumb here dn"t quite get is that a greater percentage of folks here who have flown have either had a drink or 2 before they got on a plane and were not totally wasted when the plane reached alititude. Duhh! There is no need to discuss this any further as anyone with a little experiance knows you are WRONG!

 What I am asking is will you be charged with vehicular homocide if you have an accident and your system shows traces of THC. It literally can take weeks for it to leave your system, if legalized are we being set up for DWI or vehicular homocide charges for having this in our system, while it is perfectly legal to use. I know of my friends brother in law in Texas who was charged with and convicted of vehicular homocide for having traces of a prescription in his system after a fatal accident.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline gstewart44

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #114 on: August 07, 2010, 04:52:55 PM »
Billy - I do not know about your state but here in Florida if you are at fault in a vehicle accident, where a person is killed,  you will be charged with vehicular homicide.   It doesn't matter whether you had THC, alcohol, or prescription or illegal drugs in your system the charge is due to the accident being your fault.    The sentencing will certainly be different depending on the use of mind/physical impairing chemicals.   
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #115 on: August 07, 2010, 09:00:18 PM »
Minnesota is a no fault state.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline dukkillr

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #116 on: August 07, 2010, 09:47:26 PM »
Minnesota is a no fault state.
609.21, Minnesota Statutes 2007
Copyright © 2007 by the Office of Revisor of Statutes, State of Minnesota.

609.21 CRIMINAL VEHICULAR HOMICIDE AND INJURY.
    Subdivision 1. Criminal vehicular homicide or operation; crime described. A person
is guilty of criminal vehicular homicide or operation and may be sentenced as provided in
subdivision 1a, if the person causes injury to or the death of another as a result of operating a
motor vehicle:
    (1) in a grossly negligent manner;
    (2) in a negligent manner while under the influence of:
    (i) alcohol;
    (ii) a controlled substance; or
    (iii) any combination of those elements;
    (3) while having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more;
    (4) while having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more, as measured within two hours of
the time of driving;
    (5) in a negligent manner while knowingly under the influence of a hazardous substance;
    (6) in a negligent manner while any amount of a controlled substance listed in schedule I or
II, or its metabolite, other than marijuana or tetrahydrocannabinols, is present in the person's body;
    (7) where the driver who causes the accident leaves the scene of the accident in violation of
section 169.09, subdivision 1 or 6; or
    (8) where the driver had actual knowledge that a peace officer had previously issued a citation
or warning that the motor vehicle was defectively maintained, the driver had actual knowledge
that remedial action was not taken, the driver had reason to know that the defect created a present
danger to others, and the injury or death was caused by the defective maintenance.
    Subd. 1a. Criminal penalties. (a) A person who violates subdivision 1 and causes the death
of a human being not constituting murder or manslaughter or the death of an unborn child may
be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more
than $20,000, or both.
    (b) A person who violates subdivision 1 and causes great bodily harm to another not
constituting attempted murder or assault or great bodily harm to an unborn child who is
subsequently born alive may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than five years or to
payment of a fine of not more than $10,000, or both.
    (c) A person who violates subdivision 1 and causes substantial bodily harm to another
may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than three years or to payment of a fine of not
more than $10,000, or both.
    (d) A person who violates subdivision 1 and causes bodily harm to another may be sentenced
to imprisonment for not more than one year or to payment of a fine of not more than $3,000, or
both.
    Subd. 1b. Conviction not bar to punishment for other crimes. A prosecution for or a
conviction of a crime under this section relating to causing death or injury to an unborn child
is not a bar to conviction of or punishment for any other crime committed by the defendant as
part of the same conduct.
    Subd. 2.[Repealed, 2007 c 54 art 3 s 15]
    Subd. 2a.[Repealed, 2007 c 54 art 3 s 15]
    Subd. 2b.[Repealed, 2007 c 54 art 3 s 15]
    Subd. 3.[Repealed, 2007 c 54 art 3 s 15]
    Subd. 4.[Repealed, 2007 c 54 art 3 s 15]
    Subd. 4a. Affirmative defense. It shall be an affirmative defense to a charge under
subdivision 1, clause (6), that the defendant used the controlled substance according to the terms
of a prescription issued for the defendant in accordance with sections 152.11 and 152.12.
    Subd. 5. Definitions. For purposes of this section, the terms defined in this subdivision have
the meanings given them.
    (a) "Motor vehicle" has the meaning given in section 609.52, subdivision 1, and includes
attached trailers.
    (b) "Controlled substance" has the meaning given in section 152.01, subdivision 4.
    (c) "Hazardous substance" means any chemical or chemical compound that is listed as a
hazardous substance in rules adopted under chapter 182.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #117 on: August 23, 2010, 04:34:09 AM »
It would seem that in the end to decriminalize marijuana would not allow crimes to be commited while using it anymore than now. What it would do is help offset the cost of drug law enforcement by using taxes from the sale of it to fund it. IE: let the ones using it fund the policing of it .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #118 on: August 23, 2010, 10:21:35 AM »
It would seem that in the end to decriminalize marijuana would not allow crimes to be commited while using it anymore than now. What it would do is help offset the cost of drug law enforcement by using taxes from the sale of it to fund it. IE: let the ones using it fund the policing of it .
Well, I don't think it would need to be policed. The police should do something useful, like work at solving property crimes (none of my property stolen, was EVER recovered) and violent crimes.

Law Enforcement mechanism is against legalization; it would put a crimp in money gravytrain.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: decriminalize Marijuana?
« Reply #119 on: August 23, 2010, 10:25:23 AM »
 ;)
If ya can see it ya can hit it !