decriminalize Marijuana?

[SHOOTALL]

A processing center not a storage faclity ?

[gstewart44]

Agreed!

[SHOOTALL]

That cost/tax thing i worry about 

[GatCat]

I am highly against legalizing it !!
First of all, alot of people say make it legal, and tax it. Several problems with that. First, if it gets real costly, what is keeping folks from growing it and selling it, un-taxed, for a cheaper price ( black market )?? Then, if it is grown commercially and licensed, through the state, there most certainly will be a maximum THC level ( the active ingrediant that makes one "high"). There are so many "super" strains of pot that has super high TCH, it would be like comparing beer with pure grain alcohol. So even if the State sells a legal version, there will still be a high ( play on words ) demand for the "super" versions, which seriously affect a person.
Also, comparing pot with alcohol is really an apples vs. oranges situation. A person can have an alcoholic drink, and stop there, completely sober, and function just fine. A person smokes pot to get High, pure and simple. By its nature, pot users tend to be lazy, non-productive drains on society, with poor parenting skills, etc.
Those with small kids, would you want them baby-sat by someone stoned, or walking/biking and being passed by a motorist who is "high" ??
Do you want someone who is "high" to have worked on the airplane you flew on, or done work on the semi that if behind your vehicle, etc. etc. The "super" strains are so potent, one or two hits simply puts a user into a stupor.
One of the problems with drug enforcement is the term "war on drugs". I don't know the origin of it, but it would be like saying we have a "war on bank robbery", "war on domestic violence", etc. etc. "war" is simply a poor word/term to use.
Do I think a person holding a small amount of pot for personal use should be jailed....no, a simple infraction/confiscation would be fine. Those growing large amounts, selling, etc. should be hammered. And...where is the line drawn...cocaine...crack...heroin....etc.?? Pot can easily by made synthetic and that be given to medicl patients, there is no need for the plant.
Yea, we have booze, but most people don' realize, that during prohibition, personal comsumption of alcohol decreased, and after prohibition was lifted, usage went up, dramaticlly. Yea, prohibition created a criminal element...so after prohibiton was lifted, do they go straight...nope, bank robbery, numbers, prostitution, kidnapping ( till it bacame a federal offense, and not do-able )., etc.
Same now with the "cartels", if some sort of pipe-dream ( play on words) would put them out of the pot business, does anyone really think that those folks would go straight...not a chance in h... .they'd simply to move on to other criminal endevors.
OK, off my soapbox.
Mark

[Dand]

Interesting discussion. GatCat points out some of my concerns. I had a friend who nearly committed suicide while stoned. We have a lot of alcohol fueled suicide and mahem in Alaska too. I nearly had  2 tons of herring dropped on me 'cause the crane operator was stoned. Stoneys might not fight but they can do a lot of stupid stuff, just like problem drinkers. Still, I was on a crab processing ship where there was a lot of smoking and relative peace. When the pot ran out and folks switched to booze the fighting started. Either drug, I've seen a lot of folks waste their lives and endanger others. I sure don't like the costs of jails and wasted enforcement efforts. But I'm not eager for it to be even easier for folks to go around loaded, tho it is terribly easy now. I think there are real health issues likely to show from heavy use of the modern pot, probably mental health as well. But I sure hate to deny cancer patients, and a few others some simple relief if it works for them.  I worry about the slippery slope too especially as it seems like our society is less and less inclined to encourage personal responsibility and a moral life. From what I've read about California it sounds awfully easy to get legal use of pot already. If it would cut out the gangs and drug cartels and reduce the population (and costs) of imprisoned small violators maybe it would be a good thing.

I try to see both sides. But I sure don't feel there is a clear choice.
 

[highwayman]

a friend of mine told me that weed is good for you but meth use is eating his teeth out of his mouth. i am against legalizing it except for legit medical problems

[Tommyt]

a friend of mine told me that weed is good for you but meth use is eating his teeth out of his mouth. i am against legalizing it except for legit medical problems

Your Friend is a walking Dead man and probably very explosive until death
Sorry

 Decriminalize the use, NO
  Legalize Yes

[magooch]

Rationalizing that alcohol is legal, so pot should be too; how hard would it be to rationalize that the next drug and the next should also be decriminalized because pot is? 

Personally, I don't give a crap what someone ingests as long as it doesn't cause me any problem.  One would have to be a fool to think that increased use of mind altering substances is going to make our society better.  That's a problem.

[williamlayton]

Been following this with interest.
I have an opinion-- .
I am an OLD dope smoker---have not in 30 years---too much hassle.
I am an OLD drinker--have not in 30 years--prefer dope.
First
Who in blazes thinks they can stop folks from doing what they want--whatever it is they want to do--just because someone says you can't do that.
Penalty--of course--if it results in injury to another.
Drink responsible means take responsibility for your own actions.
Tax hell out of it----HUMMMMM and HUMMMMM. Let free enterprise patrol the border for MJ. In other words, the boys in MO., ARK and OK produce some good stuff and this would not only get them off welfare but eliminate the need too smuggle inferior Mexican brown.
Would I smoke it again? Yea, most likely.
Blessings

[ironglow]

  It is perhaps a bit easier for me to comment against the legalization since even though I have faced the same trials & tribulations as anyone else in my age category, I don't use alcohol, tobacco or any other addictive substance. I just never saw the need for a crutch...especially one that can come back to bite you.
  I do think Pat/Rick (post 11),Gatcat (post 33), Dand (post 34) and TM7 (post 36) and others, have offered a clear assessment of the situation. While legalization seems to offer the "easy way out", like throwing a rock into a pond..it can cause unwanted ripples..  
        Let's look at some of the ideas;
 
  A) One says, "an individual's choice to ingest ANYTHING, belongs to that individual". Should it; even if that individual gets stoned and goes out on the interstate highway, driving 75 or 80 against our children or grandchildren ?

   B) Another says.."what one does in their own home is their own business"  That is OK with many things, but when that person ventures out into the public, still stoned..driving, flying or operating machines/equipment, then it becomes the business of the public.
  Frankly; I wouldn't care to have a doctor doing heart or back surgery on my friends, while stoned. I don't want to climb aboard a 747 with stoners at the controls, etc, etc
  
  C)  Some say, "People are doing it anyway"...sure, some people are commiting murder, robbing banks, raping and taking a dump under interstate bridges also...so should we legalize these things? Sounds like the Obamanites; "people are sneaking into the country every day, so we may as well legalize them"..

  D) Still others say, "alcohol is more destructive "...So what's next, let alcoholics add cannabis to their list of poisons? 
   How about "rattlesnakes in a kid's bedroom arte more dangerous than copperheads..so we'll throw in a couple copperheads along with the rattlers"....DUH!
    Since the stuff is a "gateway drug" and we know some 18-21 year olds will "pass it down" to those of 15 or 16, anyone can see the slippery slope syndrome.  

  E) Some say,  "Legalize it..but tax the ^&*$#@ out of it"..  Well, that puts us right back where we started, clandestine growers and sellers, plus tons coming across the border.

  F) ...And forget the old liberal argument.."everybody does it'!  No, everybody does not do it!  Nobody in my circle of close friends and relations smoke the stuff...or smoke anything. When I hear somebody mention how some place "smelled like somebody was smoking pot", i cannot relate..because I don't know what it smells like.

 So what is the answer?
     IMO it is the same as it was 50-60 years ago, when the problem was virtually non-existant.  The answer is...to change hearts and minds. We must teach our children/grandchildren to have respect...RESPECT for God, country, their own bodies & minds, others , their community , morals and decency. In short, I guess I am pitching for an old fashioned "great awakening' ..a nationwide revival, starting in each of our hearts and reaching out!
   IMHO; if you are a parent/grandparent and are not already teaching these values..you are a significant part of the problem...just my $.02...
 

[crustylicious]

Not  to mention the effects on wildlife!

[Empty Quiver]

Legalize the stuff. Grow it on prison farms, using inmate labor. Distribute it at or near free, use any profit to start manufacturing and distributing cocaine at ridiculously low prices. Profits from the sales should be put into distributing any other street drug that becomes fashionable, at rock bottom Sam's Club prices.

Plain old fashioned free market forces should quickly put the drug industry in the toilet. When the competition folds raise prices, use any proceeds to pay down bills in gov't. As soon as some entrepenuer starts selling again drop prices and bankrupt them. In essence run it like the oil business.

[ironglow]

  Why venture into the same swamp which Europe has tried..and is now trying to muddle their way out of....?


   
  http://www.justice.gov/dea/demand/speakout/09so.htm

[DDZ]

  So what is the answer?
     IMO it is the same as it was 50-60 years ago, when the problem was virtually non-existant.  The answer is...to change hearts and minds. We must teach our children/grandchildren to have respect...RESPECT for God, country, their own bodies & minds, others , their community , morals and decency. In short, I guess I am pitching for an old fashioned "great awakening' ..a nationwide revival, starting in each of our hearts and reaching out!
   IMHO; if you are a parent/grandparent and are not already teaching these values..you are a significant part of the problem...just my $.02...
 

 I believe this to be exactly the right answer. Its also the correct answer to many problems in today's society.

[williamlayton]

Good thoughts and decent coffee conversation.
Let's see here.
Illegaling it has not stopped it.
I disagree that it was not popular until the 60's.
I think it was popular always and just ignored because it was a non-issue until a movie made the staement that it was dangerous.
It is not the drink or the plant that is dangerous.
Man has a way of taking things to its own end results and making it harmful-I say as I look at my plate of mashed taters and sawmill gravy.
Opinion cannot make it safe or dangerous--people do and will.
Guns are not dangerous but people are.
Legislating people not to be dangerous is, well, magic of the mind and the plant still grows.
If you wish to make it a moral judgement--I refer back to my plate of mashed taters and sawmill gravy.
Blessings

[SHOOTALL]

It has been said that many of the great men who built this country smoked dope . To say that dope smokers are lazy is not quite true. I have worked side by side with men who smoked on weekends and at night some but could work many others in the ground . If someone is lazy they are lazy period ! Then there is the story floating around that Dupont pushed to make it illegal to protect its synthetic rope line when it came out ( read that corner the market by making it illegal) . Many in my family who have passed due to old age told stories of pot and cocaine being in products . Said it wasn't a problem until made illegal. Said many who would not have tried it did when told they could not. It was a way to show those passing laws to stop drugs and drinking that they could not !. I had an aunt that would not allow us kids to drink the coke cola in the bottom of the bottle - said the drugs seperated out and fell to the bottom .
As for being around people who smoke vs drink I'll take smoking anyday , they might eat all the munchies but they don't want to fight the world. Those pointing out the damage dope smoking can do always point out the ones that are past use and into abuse. They never mention the guy who works all day and just before bed smokes one and goes to sleep much like the guy who drinks a shot and goes to sleep. My son was hit by a drunk driver an abuser of drink. I don't fear the lady having a glass of wine with dinner nor do i think she should not be allowed to do so . But the drunk driver can rot in jail as far as i care.
Anyway if legal yes there will still be some illegal pot just like moonshine today. But there will be a tax bring in money to cover enforcement of the laws and not just an out lay of cash . There will be abuse but the mistiqe will be gone .

[SHOOTALL]

BTW I have never tried it but I don't drink either . Can't see letting my money go up in smoke or pizzed away 

[Savage .250]

If there ever was a losing battle............this is it!!   But on the other hand it sure does provide work for an awful lot of people.   

[Tommyt]

It once, was Legal and Grew wild when the Original settlers showed up
Why was it removed ??
I also see these Kids -Men sniffing Paint why don't they try and Make a Better ? less
Intoxicating Paint ,I'll tell you Why, there is No reason too
The Weed Problem, is not a Problem at all its on every other city Corner but the money
that has it there, will keep it there, it is worth way more Just the way it is.
If you start a Church or other Org. make it part of the Ceremony I'd bet it stands
Remember the atheist are taking God and His word off things, all in the name of their Beliefs
Or Dis-Beliefs
 I do believe the Indians can Grow and Smoke it on their reservations

Tommyt

[magooch]

Good thoughts and decent coffee conversation.
Let's see here.
Illegaling it has not stopped it.

I don't know what illegaling is, but murder, robbery, rape, etc. are illegal too, but continue; should those also be decriminalized?

I disagree that it was not popular until the 60's.
I think it was popular always and just ignored because it was a non-issue until a movie made the staement that it was dangerous.

I doubt that most users ever saw the movie.

It is not the drink or the plant that is dangerous.
Man has a way of taking things to its own end results and making it harmful-I say as I look at my plate of mashed taters and sawmill gravy.

I have no idea what sawmill gravy is, but if it is mind altering, maybe one shouldn't be driving, or operating dangerous equipment after ingesting.

Opinion cannot make it safe or dangerous--people do and will.
Guns are not dangerous but people are.

That is exactly why dangerous people (felons) are not allowed to have guns.

Legislating people not to be dangerous is, well, magic of the mind and the plant still grows.
If you wish to make it a moral judgement--I refer back to my plate of mashed taters and sawmill gravy.

There's that danged sawmill gravy again.
Blessings

[nw_hunter]

"There's that danged sawmill gravy again.
Blessings"


YUM, YUM! Sawmill Gravy. I grew up on it and Redeye gravy.
Sawmill on biscuits and redeye on my mashed taters. Not good for the arteries, but "Lip smackin good"

[skarke]

I consider prohibition of alcohol and grass as analogous.  The very same types of cartels that made the Kennedys rich are making many Mexicans and several Americans rich now.

I used to be very against legalization, but my stance has softened considerably (maybe because I am increasing my belief in personal freedom).  Drug use is a victimless crime in the absence of statutes prohibiting its use.

I don't see people machine gunning each other at the Canadian border for transporting a little Molsen anymore.

I personally abstain from all but an occasional beer.

[williamlayton]

Well, the taters and sawmill gravy ARE apples and oranges but the pattallels to dangerous if abused are not.
I am enjoying the conversations and thoughts.
Blessings

[beerbelly]

I think they should make it all legal, from pot to meth1 If they want it let them have it. If it kills them so be it, but not one dime of tax payer money fro treatment of drug related illness! If they OD they die, if crank eats out their insides let them die the painful death they asked for. Also not one dime for rehab, you got your self there get yourself out or die. They take the responsibility of using, they take the responsibility of the consequences!
                                     Beerbelly

[SHOOTALL]

now that's a nice thought for all those meth-babies comming out of the crack wh---- the business men frequent . Let um die a painful death . I have to not agree with that either .

[beerbelly]

All those addicted babies get treatment and get clean, if they survive the poor treatment they got before they were born.
  The best thing they could do for them is take them from the drug whores and sterilize the broad so she could produce no more! 
    I am speaking of those that chose to do that crap! I also think every drug baby that dies the mother should be charged with murder!
                               Beerbelly

[ironglow]

I think they should make it all legal, from pot to meth1 If they want it let them have it. If it kills them so be it, but not one dime of tax payer money fro treatment of drug related illness! If they OD they die, if crank eats out their insides let them die the painful death they asked for. Also not one dime for rehab, you got your self there get yourself out or die. They take the responsibility of using, they take the responsibility of the consequences!
                                     Beerbelly

    Drugs are not a "victimless" crime! Even if the stuff wre free, there would be quite a number who would inhale, inject, ingest and otherwise absorb all they can manage to put away.
  So, Beerbelly mentions one feasible way of handling those types who wish to spend their days in a stupor..making it so they wouldn't "victimize" the general public by forcing them to support their wasted carcases....
  Then, one who has said "legalize it", suddenly starts taking up for "crack babies", thereby proving the contention that it is not a "victimless" crime, but preys upon the most helpless among us, which gives a great reason to keep it out of stupid hands & bodies.
   See last paragraph of my post # 40.
   
     The argument of "it's easier dealing with a drug addict than an alcohol addict", merits zip, zero, nada...It is far better to deal with a  non-addict..again, see last paragraph of my post #40.

   

[wind drift]

SHOOTALL I AGREE who in their right mind would spend money on stuff to piss it out a hour later or watch it go up in smoke.I have friends that drink and i have friends that smoke the dope.I leave when the drinkers start because i cant stand a drunk and i really cant stand a smarta@@ one AS FAR AS MY DOPER BUDDYS AS I SEE ITS WRONG BECAUSE ITS ILLIGAL and i just stay away when they are doing the stuff.Well if nobodys going to say it i will DUDE WHERES MY CAR.


























































 

[SHOOTALL]

ironglow ,yep I'm guilty as charged . Said legalize pot . Nothing else . Said its not fair to kill babies born to a crack using mom because they are addicted . If that bothers you so be it . I don't care if they stop making booze other than I don't care to pay the price we paid in the last time it was tried.
If being illegal would do as you contend KEEP IT OUT OF THE HANDS OF THE HELPLESS there would be no drug problem today its been illegal for over 75 years . Get real it ain't nothing but a waste of time catching pot smokers . It might be if it were legal the smokers may refrain from using other drugs and risk getting caught but i don't know that to be fact.

[ironglow]

Shootall;
  Of course I am not in favor of harming the helpless..better crackheads all be sterilized to prevent such a situation.

  Again; read last paragraph of my post # 40..therein lies the answer which worked for at least 2,000 years.