Author Topic: decriminalize Marijuana? (Read 4659 times)

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #60 on:** August 02, 2010, 11:20:58 AM »

So we sterilize women who get addicted to crack or do things we don't approve sorta like they did in Germany during the war ? If she finds God later in life and could have made a contribution to our world by giving birth to a child would it have mattered when you were taking away her right to have children ? one of the main purposes God put her on earth for ?

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #61 on:** August 02, 2010, 11:27:40 AM »

The way I see it the Risk reward thing is not great enough.
There is very little risk to doing the illegal drugs and there are great rewards for selling them.
If you want to stop or slow it, make it a priority. Increase punnishment.
Conficate any cars, houses, or Boats use in the purchare or transport of the items,
Prosicute for all auxillary crimes. Give jail sentences consecutive, not concurrent.
You have 15 felonys and they each get a year and the scum serves all 15 sentences at the same time.
So in 6 months he is eligible for parole and usually out and back to doing what got him sent away for.
De criminalizing it means they will not arrest for it. let alone arrest for the complamentary felonies or crimes. (tax evasion, possesion, school zone violations, and what ever else they can think of).
This means that the dealer selling pot to kids in Jr. High will not be arrested as the kids will not be arrested. (In the voice of Spacolli from fast times at Rigemont high) "Cop dude it is only pot and that was decrimalized in January, gotta let me go"
We would not allow this with a legal product like Booze. If someone were supplying a Jr high with beer or other at the same time the guy is supplying pot they would go after the guy selling booze only. Don't get me wrong they, rightly so, should arrest the guy selling booze to kids, but why is the illegal sale of pot going to be ignored? Much like the illegal aliens. Either laws mean something or they don't. If one law can be ignored than all laws can be ignored. if you don't like the law change it, modify it, or repeal it. You can not ignore it if the bodies that make the laws and enforce the laws can pick and choose what laws they want to enforce then why can we not ignore the laws they write?

WylieKy · « **Reply #62 on:** August 02, 2010, 01:22:10 PM »

Prohibition...we tried it. Doesn't work. /end thread

DDZ · « **Reply #63 on:** August 02, 2010, 03:33:25 PM »

Quote from: beerbelly on August 02, 2010, 08:43:18 AM

I think they should make it all legal, from pot to meth1 If they want it let them have it. If it kills them so be it, but not one dime of tax payer money fro treatment of drug related illness! If they OD they die, if crank eats out their insides let them die the painful death they asked for. Also not one dime for rehab, you got your self there get yourself out or die. They take the responsibility of using, they take the responsibility of the consequences!
Beerbelly

Don't count on this ever happening. Just a for instance. There is a government run meth house, I know of where heroin addicts are given meth to get them off of heroin. I have talked to one of the drivers hired by government to deliver these addicts to the meth house where they get their weekly dose, because many don't have a car or a way to get there. He said some of the same people have been going there for a long time. He also said that some of them will cut their weekly dose with another substance and then sell it. Just think what it costs to run program.
This certainly sounds like a government program. Create the exact opposite of intent.
Tax payers will be paying for peoples drug problems until Christ returns. It don't matter if a drug is legalized or not.

beerbelly · « **Reply #64 on:** August 02, 2010, 03:58:47 PM »

I think you may have meth confused with methidone. Methidone is a sinthetic heroin that is suppose to get them of herion. In truth it is just leagal herion.
Beerbelly

DDZ · « **Reply #65 on:** August 02, 2010, 04:30:07 PM »

Quote from: beerbelly on August 02, 2010, 03:58:47 PM

I think you may have meth confused with methidone. Methidone is a sinthetic heroin that is suppose to get them of herion. In truth it is just leagal herion.
Beerbelly

Yes it is methadone, not the crystal type, and it is a drug that gives similar results as heroin. Its supposed to get people off of heroin, and it does, but they stay on methadone for years and we are paying for it. Its just like any other inept government program that is intended to help, but causes other problems.

williamlayton · « **Reply #66 on:** August 02, 2010, 04:49:11 PM »

Why do we try and take responsibility for others choices?
It is a pretty cruel world out here---people make poor choices all the time---look at the obesity around you.
It is sad that some are alchoholics, drug addics--lots of other things.
Why are we spending money for their choice?
I know--I know---I am a cruel and heartless SOB, I am stupid and gross and don't have a quarter to give to call someone who might care.
I help family too a point---cry for them, talk with them, pray for them--love them till they die---What good does it do to blame myownself or feel sorry for them---They want others care, when they do not.
It is sad but folks die----I guess we all do and sometimes it is a painful and sorry death.
I guess all I am saying is they put me thru the wringer with their lives and no one cares about the turmoil they cause.
Sad---let 'em go. I still love 'em.
Blessings

ironglow · « **Reply #67 on:** August 03, 2010, 02:00:33 AM »

  A lot of truth and wisdom in what you say there William. My real concern is when somebody, perhaps a stranger even..decides to make a choice that can kill or injure someone I hold dear.
  Truly today, "no man is an island"...For instance, we are all suffering financially and in OUR choices simply because quite a number of our fellow citizens have swallowed the "global warming" poison pill. How much have we lost, simply because so many have fallen for just such a fairy tale ?
   Somebody "chooses' to drink or take some form of mind-bending dope...and then drive; that can have dramatic ill effects upon me or mine. Someone once said:
   "you can swing your own fists around as much as you wish, that's YOUR business; but at the point where they contact my nose...then it becomes MY business". ...Suddenly, retribution is in order..
  But retribution is a little solace for a lost loved one...prevention seems a safer, more equitable route for all concerned.

  As far as keeping mind-bending drugs illegal and punishing perpetrators;... "An OUNCE of prevention, is worth a POUND of cure".
   I much prefer potecting the innocent, over coddling the guilty...but that's just my $.02

Tommyt · « **Reply #68 on:** August 03, 2010, 02:34:49 AM »

Pot we are Talking Pot
Not Crack POT
You bunch of Cracker heads get back on the Post

Go and Vote YES

nw_hunter · « **Reply #69 on:** August 03, 2010, 09:33:39 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on August 03, 2010, 02:00:33 AM

A lot of truth and wisdom in what you say there William. My real concern is when somebody, perhaps a stranger even..decides to make a choice that can kill or injure someone I hold dear.
  Truly today, "no man is an island"...For instance, we are all suffering financially and in OUR choices simply because quite a number of our fellow citizens have swallowed the "global warming" poison pill. How much have we lost, simply because so many have fallen for just such a fairy tale ?
   Somebody "chooses' to drink or take some form of mind-bending dope...and then drive; that can have dramatic ill effects upon me or mine. Someone once said:
   "you can swing your own fists around as much as you wish, that's YOUR business; but at the point where they contact my nose...then it becomes MY business". ...Suddenly, retribution is in order..
  But retribution is a little solace for a lost loved one...prevention seems a safer, more equitable route for all concerned.

  As far as keeping mind-bending drugs illegal and punishing perpetrators;... "An OUNCE of prevention, is worth a POUND of cure".
   I much prefer potecting the innocent, over coddling the guilty...but that's just my $.02

Not talking about someones actions while being impaired!
You can be impaired on legal prescription drugs. No one should get behind the wheel under these conditions.
Some do, and most don't!

The question is..........Should it be decriminalized for the use,limited possession, and limited growing?

The cost to American tax payers for the war on drugs has been astronomical, and it has been a total failure, so why not take some of the burden off by decriminalizing the less detrimental drug of them all. It's a natural plant! The Government cannot stop the cultivation of it, or the use of it, so why bother? Hell's Bell's it's legal to make beer at home for your own use. Is growing a plant to smoke any worse?

I grew up in a era in America where even a child could buy narcotics across the counter. "No Kidding" I remember buying Paregoric, and other opium and alcohol laced drugs for my Mother at a local grocery.

They worked wonders on Coughs, diarrhea, tooth aches, and other problems associated with raising children.
Most of us didn't grow up to be addicts because of it. That came about with the following generation.

Drug abuse was almost unheard of in rural America back then (1950's). Back before the Federal Government stuck their money grubbing noses in it.

Like Alcohol and tobacco, stop the sale of it to minors. Make this the crime, not the use of it by an adult.

williamlayton · « **Reply #70 on:** August 03, 2010, 10:03:26 AM »

I am of the opinion that it has always been and not new.
It just was not publicized because they were doing it to theirownselves and attitudes were different then.
Just like death--it was not until the generation after WWII that folks started becoming paranoid about death and preaching the need to prevent it---in any form that killed.
Death is an acceptable way to die in any form.
Blessings

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #71 on:** August 03, 2010, 10:20:22 AM »

1950's rural America had booze, moonshine and pot . The big difference was no one cared to call the news people . The local LEO didn't have time to worry about it unless you got out of line . I believe most things like these were used on weekends and not all the time .

ironglow · « **Reply #72 on:** August 03, 2010, 12:44:36 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on August 03, 2010, 10:20:22 AM

1950's rural America had booze, moonshine and pot . The big difference was no one cared to call the news people . The local LEO didn't have time to worry about it unless you got out of line . I believe most things like these were used on weekends and not all the time .

I am forced to assume the 1950s rural America you grew up in was very different than the 1950s rural America I grew up in...

Even to this day, I cannot fathom the need for such psychological crutches...

bkraft · « **Reply #73 on:** August 03, 2010, 06:18:10 PM »

In another life I was a floor president in a college dorm, late 70's early 80's. Whenever I had to deal with a complaint I would MUCH rather deal with the guys smokin' reefer than drunks. I mean I NEVER saw a "head" get violent, now a bag of cheetos was a goner, bang flop dead. But that was it, drunks you never knew what you were gettin into and it could get ugly in a heartbeat.
Legalize it, subsidize it as another farm product and quit trying to legislate morality.

WylieKy · « **Reply #74 on:** August 03, 2010, 08:26:35 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on August 03, 2010, 10:20:22 AM

1950's rural America had booze, moonshine and pot . The big difference was no one cared to call the news people . The local LEO didn't have time to worry about it unless you got out of line . I believe most things like these were used on weekends and not all the time .

This must be the 1950's rural America my dad grew up in. Lynch, Ky right out side of Harlan in far eastern Ky. Shine paid the bills and weed was to sit back and enjoy after 18 hours in the mine. Pretty much the same story now.

Quote from: bkraft on August 03, 2010, 06:18:10 PM

quit trying to legislate morality.

+1

For those who argue that they don't "need" this and that. Good for them. I don't "need" a cake for my birthday, but it sure is nice...

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #75 on:** August 04, 2010, 02:59:44 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on August 03, 2010, 12:44:36 PM

Quote from: SHOOTALL on August 03, 2010, 10:20:22 AM
1950's rural America had booze, moonshine and pot . The big difference was no one cared to call the news people . The local LEO didn't have time to worry about it unless you got out of line . I believe most things like these were used on weekends and not all the time .

I am forced to assume the 1950s rural America you grew up in was very different than the 1950s rural America I grew up in...

Even to this day, I cannot fathom the need for such psychological crutches...

guess we did ,

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #76 on:** August 04, 2010, 03:26:23 AM »

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #77 on:** August 04, 2010, 04:55:08 AM »

Now if we were still farming with horses bio fuel would certainly be a viable alternative. Simple fact is you are hard pressed to get the next crop planted with the fuel extracted from this years crop. Couple that fact with this, you would need about another planets worth of tillable ground to satiate this country's appetite for petroleum.

The fact that engines can be run on bio fuels does not make it a viable solution. If you understand anything about economics, you must understand the truth behind this. If it were better we would already be using it period end of discussion. Oil industry investment capitol would have developed it long ago. Do you really think they care if they are selling mineral oil or veggy oil? They are interested in making money, if the profit was higher in turning pelicans into race fuel we woild be seeing pelican farms covering the countryside.

Dope is illegal because too many people get rich from the huge profits it turns. It started as a moral issue then quickly became an industry. From the entire legal system to the bankers involved in laundering the cash none of the truely powerful profit from legalization.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #78 on:** August 04, 2010, 09:53:32 AM »

Well stated empty quiver. I think you and I being residents of the bread basket area understand the concept of bio energy production and the sheer land mass needed to produce it. How about someone here find a source of how many gallons of bio deisel can be produced per acre of hemp or soybeans. And also the need for food needs to be factored into this also, as the hemp fields will directly compete with the food grains. I think only the silly and naïve would think that thos is a viable option.

gstewart44 · « **Reply #79 on:** August 04, 2010, 10:29:34 AM »

Agreed that biofuel is not viable as a mass solution or longterm. Our own USDA studies in conjunction with several agricultural colleges have shown that the easiest and best yielding plant to grow is native switchgrass (tall prairie grass). It yields about 300 times the energy that corn does. Only problem is that even the best estimates and experiments can only yield 11,000 gallons of ethanol per acre per year. volume wise that is a spit in the ocean for our daily energy use.

And pure ethanol is not viable for our auto industry. Oh yeah, the other thing the USDA forgets to mention is that when the westward expansion occured in the US, millions of acres of switchgrass were cleared for ......Agriculture - food crops.......

The answer lies elsewhere.

nw_hunter · « **Reply #80 on:** August 04, 2010, 11:03:31 AM »

Quote from: gstewart44 on August 04, 2010, 10:29:34 AM

Agreed that biofuel is not viable as a mass solution or longterm. Our own USDA studies in conjunction with several agricultural colleges have shown that the easiest and best yielding plant to grow is native switchgrass (tall prairie grass). It yields about 300 times the energy that corn does. Only problem is that even the best estimates and experiments can only yield 11,000 gallons of ethanol per acre per year. volume wise that is a spit in the ocean for our daily energy use.

And pure ethanol is not viable for our auto industry. Oh yeah, the other thing the USDA forgets to mention is that when the westward expansion occured in the US, millions of acres of switchgrass were cleared for ......Agriculture - food crops.......

The answer lies elsewhere.

Not sure what this has to do with decriminalizing Marijuana?

We don't have to legalize Pot to sell to decriminalize it.
Decriminalization reflects changing social and moral views. A society may come to the view that an act is not harmful, should no longer be criminalized, or is otherwise not a matter to be addressed by the criminal justice system.

It's obvious enforcing laws against the smoking of pot has not had an effect on people using it, and has been a burden on the taxpayers.

The war on drugs has been a failure. Time to try a different approach! JMO

gstewart44 · « **Reply #81 on:** August 04, 2010, 11:06:09 AM »

Quote from: nw_hunter on August 04, 2010, 11:03:31 AM

Not sure what this has to do with decriminalizing Marijuana?

We don't have to legalize Pot to sell to decriminalize it.
Decriminalization reflects changing social and moral views. A society may come to the view that an act is not harmful, should no longer be criminalized, or is otherwise not a matter to be addressed by the criminal justice system.

It's obvious enforcing laws against the smoking of pot has not had an effect on people using it, and has been a burden on the taxpayers.

The war on drugs has been a failure. Time to try a different approach! JMO
[/quote] Sorry - $:-\$ I got swept away on the tangent.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #82 on:** August 04, 2010, 11:20:45 AM »

I don't think I would have tried pot if it had been legal. I know for a fact being illegal I would not try it . So it has effected some .
But i do agree that the cost to stop it is crazy and better it be legal and taxed.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #83 on:** August 04, 2010, 01:34:48 PM »

Boy are we seeing the tax and spend progressive come out of the closet here.

If pot were legalized, what wouls be the standards for driving or working? Would DOT certification still need a clean drug test? Unlike alcohol pot does not leave your bloodstream in hours it can take weeks. I have no problems with pot smoking or pot heads, but I do not want to share the road or workplace with them.

jimster · « **Reply #84 on:** August 04, 2010, 01:47:41 PM »

Quote

I have no problems with pot smoking or pot heads, but I do not want to share the road or workplace with them.

Actually Billy we share the road and work place with them already, you would have to believe a whole bunch of people would just start smoking pot if it was legalized/decriminalized. I'm not so sure about that...they either do or don't already, like booze. They test for pot already after accidents around here. Probably would not change much, be the same as booze. I must pass lot's of people on the road who are buzzed on pot or booze or worse every day and don't even know it.

Rambler · « **Reply #85 on:** August 04, 2010, 01:48:43 PM »

Ok lots of good points made; however:

petroleum (and natural gas) are our primary energy sources due to energy density and cost. Pot, corn, switchgrass -- you name it, only become viable with a shortage of fossil fuel and a DRAMATICALLY reduced per capita energy consumption. We are levelling off; China and India are where we were (per capita) 100 -150 years ago. So, hang on tight!

Pot is illegal because a centralized government seeks to control its citizens in all ways; the arguement of "just tax it" falls short because we are already overtaxed to support a bloated beaurocratic nightmare. There is no federal, constitutional authority to tax pot, alcohol, FIREARMS or any other commodity that is domestically produced. The "interstate commerce clause " has been perverted to allow for all of these taxes.

I personally think pot is a "crutch" as someone posted earlier. However, if you want to use it, go right ahead. But, if you do anything that infringes the rights of others due to your use, cultivation etc. ; then, you should be punished.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #86 on:** August 04, 2010, 01:53:44 PM »

So what level will we set for stoned driving and how will we test for it? Will DOT drop the requirement for random drug testing for marijuanna? What will be the ok level of THC in the bloodstream be for pilots, engineers and truck drivers?

WylieKy · « **Reply #87 on:** August 04, 2010, 03:26:13 PM »

I have to say that I am amused by all of this fear of stoned drivers. Grannies on walkers go faster than your average stoner behind the wheel. And as far as all of this talk about pot taking WEEKS to leave your system is foolish. The THC is metabolized in a couple hours. Metabolized THC causes no intoxication.

I wonder how many times ole billy's going to use the "progressives out of the closet" line. Come on billy, do some deep thinking and come up with something fresh and original. I mean, it's a good line, but like many vices, should be used responsibly and in moderation.

Friends don't let friends use the same catch phrase over and over.

ironglow · « **Reply #88 on:** August 04, 2010, 03:51:26 PM »

Wylie said;
"but like many vices, should be used responsibly and in moderation"....

Why bother with the vices at all? What is wrong with choosing to maintain a fully functional mind?

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #89 on:** August 04, 2010, 04:21:09 PM »

Quote from: williamlayton on August 02, 2010, 04:49:11 PM

Why do we try and take responsibility for others choices?
It is a pretty cruel world out here---people make poor choices all the time---look at the obesity around you.
It is sad that some are alchoholics, drug addics--lots of other things.
Why are we spending money for their choice?
I know--I know---I am a cruel and heartless SOB, I am stupid and gross and don't have a quarter to give to call someone who might care.
I help family too a point---cry for them, talk with them, pray for them--love them till they die---What good does it do to blame myownself or feel sorry for them---They want others care, when they do not.
It is sad but folks die----I guess we all do and sometimes it is a painful and sorry death.
I guess all I am saying is they put me thru the wringer with their lives and no one cares about the turmoil they cause.
Sad---let 'em go. I still love 'em.
Blessings

I agree, if you want to drink, do drugs, or eat your self to death, go ahead.
Where i have a problem is when your actions conflict with my property.
If i have to Pay for your health care, your children, more Police to protect my property and person from being attacked by you so you can feed your habbit. pesronally I think we should allow you to make a choice. If you want to be a druggie, drunk, or what ever, we build a small town out in the midlle of the desert. Pay for everything, and let them have all the booze and drugs they want, feed them, house them and provide a medical staff, but they can never come back from it. loved ones can go visit. In the long run it would be cheaper to supply them then provide welfare. Other than that people should be responsible for their actions and I should not have to pay for it. more of this will lead to larger and larger nanny state that will have to take care of you with my money and property.
That is why it is illegal. If you want to make it legal, make it legal, decriminalizing it will not make it go away but only make things worse with out the standard checks of legal status. This will see a rise in gang warfare and fights over turf as more will want to enter the illegal drug sales.
No risk, big rewards and people will enter the market, people in the market will try to keep market share and with illegal drugs that will lead to lead flying and bystandards being killed.